Currently available IceTV-enabled PVRs

[IanL-S]

Thanks for the update MD. Much appreciated.

Ian

[IanL-S]

MD I see that the www site now has details on the new IceBox.

Any idea when the bring your one device firmware will be available; I have a spare NUC style PC I would like to test it on.

Ian

[DeltaMikeCharlie]

I just read the IceBox page and I have some questions/observations:

1) I assume that programs to record can be set via the Ice TV web site, however, what additional network access capabilities does it have? (HTTP, FTP, NFS, SMB, DLNA, etc)
2) How frequently does the IceBox update its EPG and programs to be recorded?
3) Can it run plug-ins? (I have Topfields and use lots of TAPs)
4) If you already have an ICE TV subscription, does the free 90 days that comes with the IceBox get credited to your existing subscription?
5) The remote control unit seems sparse.  No numerals, red/green/yellow/blue functions keys.  Can remote control features be added/customised? (See plug-ins above).
6) Can a USB keyboard/mouse be connected and used with the UI?
7) Does the remote use both IR and RF?
8) Can the remote functions be integrated into a universal remote?
9) Can you choose/blend between the FTA EPG and the ICE EPG sources?
10) Are consecutive programs recorded into a single file or individual files?
11) If individual file and based on EPG timing, is padding/overlap provided on each file so that you don't have to play the start of the second recording to see the end of the first program?
12) If single file, can the user easily navigate between the programs within said single recording?
13) Does the IceBox support Wake-On-Lan (or similar) so that it can be woken up remotely?
14) Can the user increase the storage and/or add external storage that can be recorded to directly?
15) Can recordings be sent to a NAS, etc?
16) What is the core firmware?  (Linux + Kodi/similar or proprietary)
17) Does it support streaming services?  (Netflix, Amazon, Stan, YouTube, etc)
18) How is the storage split between the TF Card and SSD?  (OS / Recordings?)
19) What playback/navigation features are available?

[IanL-S]

DMC, the most recent information I have is that it will use Enigma2, and I suspect it will be running on Linux variant. I have not yet got my hands on a unit, but no doubt will get one for final stage beta testing, so everything I say below is based to my research on Enigma2 and experience with Beyowiz that use Enigma2.

I suspect that a vanilla Enigma2 base is being used, so there should be support for most of the network protocols you mention (the Beyonwiz with its aging Enigma2 base code supports all those you mention).

My understanding is that OpenwbIF is also a standard feature of Enigma2, which while not as powerful in some ways as WebControl, allows a significant level of remote control.

The IceTV Enigma2 plugin on the Beyonwiz gives users control over how frequently EPG and timer data is downloaded; the most frequent is every 15 minutes. I assume that the IceTV implementation for the IceBox will be similar if it uses the same API.

Enigma2 supports plugins; not sure how extensive they are. I am not aware of any plugins for streaming services.

Enigma2 scheduling does not (normally) result in pre- and post-padding being ignored (particularly when there a one or more consecutive recordings on the same LCN). There is probably some management algarythim when the number of "concurrent" timers is large, and multiple networks are used. Unfortunately, pre- and post-padding are global settings. Not sure how many concurrent recordings are possible.

Enigma2 supports keyboards; I have used USB keyboard with my T2, U4 and V2. Support for wireless keyboards is patchy - my Logitech 4000 works with U4 and V2 (including the touchpad) but no longer works with the T2.

Enigma2 also supports recording to external devices, such as USB drives, NAS and I think other network shares.

Ian

[IanL-S]

DMC, the most recent information I have is that it will use Enigma2, and I suspect it will be running on Linux variant. I have not yet got my hands on a unit, but no doubt will get one for final stage beta testing, so everything I say below is based to my research on Enigma2 and experience with Beyowiz that use Enigma2.

Ian

I thought I should elaborate on this comment. The most likely host OS is Linux, as it is, because it is open source freely distributable - necessary when you are offering IceBox image free to those with their own (suitable) hardware.

Android TV is not open source so would not be viable, although there is the Android Open Source Project but that would I suspect much more difficult to base the IceBox on than Linux, particularly if Enigma2 is being used. I am not aware of a viable alternative to Enigma2. For the same reason, Windows would not be considered.

Ian

[MD]

1) I assume that programs to record can be set via the Ice TV web site, however, what additional network access capabilities does it have? (HTTP, FTP, NFS, SMB, DLNA, etc)
A) Yes of course, and in terms of network, really most of them are available
2) How frequently does the IceBox update its EPG and programs to be recorded?
A) At the moment like most it's 15 minutes, but this could change
3) Can it run plug-ins? (I have Topfields and use lots of TAPs)
A) Yes, many
4) If you already have an ICE TV subscription, does the free 90 days that comes with the IceBox get credited to your existing subscription?
A) Yes (as we always do)
5) The remote control unit seems sparse.  No numerals, red/green/yellow/blue functions keys.  Can remote control features be added/customised? (See plug-ins above).
A) Yes. The remote is designed to be simple to enable easy playback of recordings and easy pause without looking at it in the dark. You can probably use most remote controls, keyboard and mouse and using the TV remote via HDMI-CEC.
6) Can a USB keyboard/mouse be connected and used with the UI?
A) See above
7) Does the remote use both IR and RF?
A)  No, just RF so the box can be hidden if preferred
8) Can the remote functions be integrated into a universal remote?
A) The unit itself doesn't have an IR receiver built in, but it has a lot of options so maybe yes via an added IR receiver
9) Can you choose/blend between the FTA EPG and the ICE EPG sources?
A) This is possible but not within the same user setup.  One or the other.
10) Are consecutive programs recorded into a single file or individual files?
A) Individual files
11) If individual file and based on EPG timing, is padding/overlap provided on each file so that you don't have to play the start of the second recording to see the end of the first program?
A) Padding/overlap is provided on each file
12) If single file, can the user easily navigate between the programs within said single recording?
A) Yes
13) Does the IceBox support Wake-On-Lan (or similar) so that it can be woken up remotely?
A) Yes
14) Can the user increase the storage and/or add external storage that can be recorded to directly?
A) Yes but up to the user to configure
15) Can recordings be sent to a NAS, etc?
A) Not yet tested but probably and up to the user to configure
16) What is the core firmware?  (Linux + Kodi/similar or proprietary)
A) LibreElec based
17) Does it support streaming services?  (Netflix, Amazon, Stan, YouTube, etc)
A) There are some unauthorised plugins out there but not officially supported.
18) How is the storage split between the TF Card and SSD?  (OS / Recordings?)
A) OS is small, only around 200MB or so, the rest is storage
19) What playback/navigation features are available?
A) Heaps!

I hope that helps:)

[DeltaMikeCharlie]

I hope that helps:)

Thanks MD.

LibreELEC basically seems to be an Ubuntu-based minimal Linux distribution (presumably with device drivers for DVB tuners, RCU, etc) that comes with Kodi pre-installed.

Have you added ICE functionality purely via a Kodi Add-on/Skin or have you also modified Linux and/or Kodi directly?

I downloaded the OVA version (v10.0.2) of LibreELEC and tried it out with VirtualBox.

I was able to get the Web interface working, however, lacking tuners etc in the VM meant that the experience was somewhat lacking.

I also managed to setup an NFS mount to one of my Topfield PVRs and commence playback of a recording.  Playback stuttered and eventually stalled.  However, I am assuming that this too was to do with VM resourcing and lack of GPU, etc.

UPnP to a Fetch PVR had the same results as the Topfield.

I could browse the LibreELEC PVR from a Windows PC, but there was no media available, obviously.

Looks interesting.

[IanL-S]

DMC

Thanks for this information. Had not considered using a VM; will try it out later.

Looking at the documentation it seems that there is extensive support for RCUs, and it is possilbe to roll-you-own configuation for ones that are not supported. Not clear which USB tuners are supported.

There is an Enigma2 plugin for Kodi; not sure if the IceBox will use it to implement the PVR functions.

Ian

[DeltaMikeCharlie]

Had not considered using a VM; will try it out later.

In VirtualBox, I had to increase the video RAM and enable 3D to get it to boot.

[raymondjpg]

Had not considered using a VM; will try it out later.

In VirtualBox, I had to increase the video RAM and enable 3D to get it to boot.

VMware Workstation 16 Player probably also worth a try.

Edit: OVA version (v10.0.2) of LibreELEC imported into VMware Workstation 16 Player, configured with NextPVR addon TV backend, picked up host windows 11 installation of NextPVR and recorded a program without any stuttering. Only hitch is VMware installation of LibreELEC hogs mouse input (once initiated) and will not release it, necessitating power down of the VM to restore mouse functionality to host. Ctrl-Alt restores mouse functionality to host.

[vader1111]

Many of my questions have already been answered, thanks to DMC's lengthy checklist.  It looks like most (if not all) of the behaviours will be similar to those of my existing Beyonwiz devices (both being Enigma2).

I note that pre- and post-padding can be added.  Is this user configurable?

Similarly, you've said that box has a "skip function", for jumping across ads.  Is this user programmable?  How many jump settings?  For example, my Beyonwiz has 4x jump settings (for the up, down, left, right buttons), set to -60, -10, +30, and +180 seconds.

One of the few annoying features of my Beyonwiz T2s, is a problem I encounter when viewing recordings in "chase play" mode - starting the program after the scheduled start time, then skipping through the ads, until I am close to "live".  The problem is that "skipping" to within 3-5 minutes of the end results in playback skipping straight to "live", missing those 3-5 minutes of programming.  Does the IceBox have a similar fault, given that it's another Enigma2 machine?

The Beyonwiz devices are able to mount each other as network drives, and I can stop playback on one device, picking up where I left off on the other device (e.g. I can watch the second half in bed, having watched the first half in the lounge room).  Given that both Beyonwiz and IceBox will use Enigma2, will they have this level of compatibility?

Possibly the most important question... will the IceBox come with a comprehensive user manual (unlike Beyonwiz devices)?

[MD]

Hi Vader1111

See item 16 of DMC list:
16) What is the core firmware?  (Linux + Kodi/similar or proprietary)
A) LibreElec based

Pre and Post Padding can be configured.

As such its skipping is somewhat different in that repeated presses of the right button give increments of 10, 30, 60, 120 and so on; the left arrow does the reverse.  These can be configured. Currently the up and down arrows do 10% jumps. We can override these but there is only so much time in the day so they will come later depending on the majority of customer preferences.

Chase play starts when paused but can be configured to keep a previously set "buffer".

The jumping out of chase play should not occur during 3-5 minutes before the the end though once one gets to a few seconds I'm sure it will.

What we ask all forum "Gurus" to remember is that initially we have to bring out a PVR that completely satisfies the user needs for the average PVR user, who are the majority of IceTV users, a typical person who records his TV shows on a stand alone box.  The more technical add-ons will come as we tweak the various functions wrt what the majority of customers want.  Much of the UX can be re-configured by the user with some research.

.

[IanL-S]

<<< SNIP >>>
What we ask all forum "Gurus" to remember is that initially we have to bring out a PVR that completely satisfies the user needs for the average PVR user, who are the majority of IceTV users, a typical person who records his TV shows on a stand alone box.  The more technical add-ons will come as we tweak the various functions wrt what the majority of customers want.  Much of the UX can be re-configured by the user with some research.

I for one fully understand this. While, for example, Enigma2 implementations can do all sorts of interesting things, at this stage it is appropriate to concentrate on getting a box that everyday users can use without having to get into complexities of system configuration. As MD says, those who want to reconfigure the UX should be able to find out how to do so with a little research.

Ian

[vader1111]

Hi Vader1111

See item 16 of DMC list:
16) What is the core firmware?  (Linux + Kodi/similar or proprietary)
A) LibreElec based

Pre and Post Padding can be configured.

As such its skipping is somewhat different in that repeated presses of the right button give increments of 10, 30, 60, 120 and so on; the left arrow does the reverse.  These can be configured. Currently the up and down arrows do 10% jumps. We can override these but there is only so much time in the day so they will come later depending on the majority of customer preferences.

Chase play starts when paused but can be configured to keep a previously set "buffer".

The jumping out of chase play should not occur during 3-5 minutes before the the end though once one gets to a few seconds I'm sure it will.

What we ask all forum "Gurus" to remember is that initially we have to bring out a PVR that completely satisfies the user needs for the average PVR user, who are the majority of IceTV users, a typical person who records his TV shows on a stand alone box.  The more technical add-ons will come as we tweak the various functions wrt what the majority of customers want.  Much of the UX can be re-configured by the user with some research.

.

Thanks for getting back to me, MD.

I have no idea what LibreElec is/isn't capable of, all I know is what I have previously experienced with Beyonwiz, which is another Enigma2 system.  Thank you for explaining it to me.

I am quite happy to be receiving a "basic functionality" box, with additional functionality coming in subsequent updates.  I appreciate that development of the IceBox has been compressed, due to all of the other IceTV enabled PVR companies going out of business.  I really enjoy the functionality of both IceTV and my PVRs, and am extremely happy that you have come up with a way of keeping the ecosystem alive.

[IanL-S]

This post was made when I was under the misapprehension that the IceBox used Enigma2.

vader1111

Considering resuming paying recording on the IceBox that you have been playing on a Beyonwiz (or the other way around), since Enigma2 devices use a the same recording format, resuming playing should work. The recording is in the *.ts file (MEPEG2 program stream or H.264 program stream), the EPG data is in the *.eit file, and the *ap, *ts.cuts, *.meta and *.sc. The *.ts.cuts
stores the last position where the recording was stopped while playing - so if that file is present things should be OK.

Ian