Windows 7 EPG Beta Readme: 09/07/2009

Started by Russell at IceTV, July 09, 2009, 10:38:20 AM

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hamping

Quote from: NiallG on July 15, 2009, 03:41:15 PM
Quote from: hamping on July 15, 2009, 12:30:46 PM
Niall, what data do you think that ICE TV will not be able to include?
I doubt you will ever even get to see the channel logos from icetv (given the relationship between icetv and the "big boys") - and as for providing a list of the other '11 secret herbs and spices' - no thanks.....  ;D..




Well, with respect, that's not very helpful either. Logos are not a compelling reason to use BSG EPG. Its a one off process and there is freely available software available to to do it (as you know).

If you want to say that ICE Tv's service can't and won't be able to do something with WIN 7 as well as BSG EPG can or will do, you need to at least say what it is. I'm just asking why you see the service that this forum relates to is or will always be deficient? Is it limited to the AMG data and certain cover photos? This is quite different to saying how you achieve it from a software engineering persepctive.  And given that the answers about what WIN 7 is capable of is all in a Microsoft specification somewhere, its probably not such a secret anyway. It is, however, a good thing to discuss here for the benefit of subscribers....

NiallG

Quote from: hamping on July 15, 2009, 09:24:36 PM
Well, with respect, that's not very helpful either. Logos are not a compelling reason to use BSG EPG. Its a one off process and there is freely available software available to to do it (as you know).

If you want to say that ICE Tv's service can't and won't be able to do something with WIN 7 as well as BSG EPG can or will do, you need to at least say what it is. I'm just asking why you see the service that this forum relates to is or will always be deficient? Is it limited to the AMG data and certain cover photos? This is quite different to saying how you achieve it from a software engineering persepctive.  And given that the answers about what WIN 7 is capable of is all in a Microsoft specification somewhere, its probably not such a secret anyway. It is, however, a good thing to discuss here for the benefit of subscribers....

The best solution is - if you want to get more of an understanding about how it gives you a better end result than a pre-prepared feed (and a more manageable/configurable solution over long term) -  download it and give it a shot - or come accross to the forums linked to above - and chat with others choosing to use it in combination with icetv feeds (even though they are aware there is just the option to just use the icetv mxf/win7 feed) - so that way you can make a more informed decision. (it's definitely not all about the channel logos - thats was just an 'example' of one feature you probably won't get from the premade icetv feed).

If you want to just use the icetv mxf/win7 feed thats your choice too - not trying to push you to do anything you don't want to do ...  but in same respect I'm not here to provide a bullet point 'check-list' of it's features for others to mimick/replicate (who may have sat unhelpfully on the sidelines when their assistance was really required) - and some of it isn't (and never will be) in the spec - partially due to a large portion of my solution being written before any spec was published. I'm also not here to spruik/advertise my product. I mainly responded in here due to all the mentions/links to my product (and references to steps/procedures which were flushed out with a lot of hard work by myself, lobbying and of course feedback from my beta testers) - and of course to answer to some incorrect assumptions on not going to the high court 'yet'...    :)

mjdoz

Installed over the older version using the instructions provided.  No issues everything just worked

Did note one issue in Brisbane 9 HD is listed after a scan as "Nine High Definitoion" so had to map it manually to "9 HD - Ice TV"

Even though I turned off the EIT guide by selecting "disable inband" as soon as the scan stopped the EIT guide was donloaded for ABC and some of the other channels as guide data went past midnight Tuesday 21 July.  Only noticed when repeats started to be included in the scheduled record.  I assume that as te ICE guide catches up it will overwrite the EIT info.

Also noted that Media Watch on Monday night at 21:20 is no longer listed as a repaet as it was prior to the update.  Interestingly the episode of the cook anbd the chef shown at 11:30 on 18/7 with an original air date of 15/7 was scheduled to record even though the series settings were set to new.  This maybe because this was the episode used to set up the series record.

Michael

Russell at IceTV

Quote from: mjdoz on July 15, 2009, 11:29:11 PM
Installed over the older version using the instructions provided.  No issues everything just worked

Great!

Quote
Did note one issue in Brisbane 9 HD is listed after a scan as "Nine High Definition" so had to map it manually to "9 HD - Ice TV"

Ok, thanks, we'll update the channel name in our database so other people should hopefully have it mapped automatically.

Quote
Even though I turned off the EIT guide by selecting "disable inband" as soon as the scan stopped the EIT guide was donloaded for ABC and some of the other channels as guide data went past midnight Tuesday 21 July.  Only noticed when repeats started to be included in the scheduled record.  I assume that as te ICE guide catches up it will overwrite the EIT info.

Yes, it'll probably take enough time for the existing EIT data to run out.

Quote
Also noted that Media Watch on Monday night at 21:20 is no longer listed as a repaet as it was prior to the update.

Looking at the guide on our web site, it appears that the Monday night showing is new, and the Wednesday night showing is a repeat, each week, so that sounds right.

Quote
Interestingly the episode of the cook anbd the chef shown at 11:30 on 18/7 with an original air date of 15/7 was scheduled to record even though the series settings were set to new.  This maybe because this was the episode used to set up the series record.

I believe this is because of the Media Center "feature" that treats repeat episodes as new if they're within 7 days of the original air date.  Normally it would only record the second one if it wasn't able to record the first one on the 15th, but in this case it's probably because you just reset the database, so it has no record of that episode being recorded before.

Russell

mjdoz

Thanks Russell

Quote MJDOZ
"Also noted that Media Watch on Monday night at 21:20 is no longer listed as a repaet as it was prior to the update."

QUOTE Russell at IceTV
"Looking at the guide on our web site, it appears that the Monday night showing is new, and the Wednesday night showing is a repeat, each week, so that sounds right."

Thats correct.  On the old version on Windows 7 it showed all episodes as a repeat.  On Vista (I still have one of those as well) and EIT it showed it as new.  Windows 7 now matches the others so all is well with the world (and WAF).

Thanks again

Michael

Russell at IceTV

Quote from: Russell at IceTV on July 09, 2009, 10:38:20 AM
This is a fairly major change in the way we create the Windows 7 guide, and we've found that Windows 7's Media Center doesn't like it when you load the guide in this new format over the top of the old format guide you're currently using.  The only way we've been able to successfully convert Media Center to the new format to fix the problems above is to reset Media Center back to the factory defaults and then load the new guide data in from scratch.  This means you'll need to run a command to do the reset, and then go through the Media Center setup again, to let it find your tuners and scan for channels.  After that, you can load the new guide data and create your series recordings again.  We know, this is a pain, and we'd love to find a way around this, but I'm afraid this is the best solution we've been able to find so far.

Because this is such a big change, we'd like to get a few guinea pigs brave beta testers to try it out first, before we change everyone over to the new format.  If all goes well, we'll eventually start using the new format in the normal program on our server, so everyone will get it.  At that time, everyone will need to do the reset.  But we'll give notice here before we do it.

Ok guys, it's been a couple of weeks now, and it looks like things are working pretty well.  I'm wondering if it's about time to switch everyone over to the new format.  Anyone have any more feedback (positive or negative) they'd like to share from their experience with the new data?

Thanks,
Russell

hamping

Russell - It does seem to be working well.

Your comments on what if anything is being considered for implementation regarding the various additional capacities for metadata in WIN 7 would also be of interest.

Regards


mjdoz

Russell,

I am not sure if this is something I am doing or a guide issue.  I am still seeing repeats being flagged for record even though the series settings are for "NEW" only.  This is not a big issue as it is better to record and delete rather than miss.

The latest one I noted was "Australian Story" ABC1 CH2 Sat 25/7 12:30 - 1:00pm  it is shown as original air date of 20/7/2009 which I am pretty certian was recorded on this PC.

Aside from that all looks great.

Michael

McBanjo

I don't see why you can't switchover to this now. To be honest I didn't even notice the difference this update made.

If I could make a suggestion, IceTV should be focusing on key features like supporting remote recording from things like the iPhone app etc. rather than adding a cast list. It's your performance in staying up-to-date and on the ball in key areas that's much more important for your goodwill and reputation.

I'm sure you guys are working hard at this and trying all that you can to navigate the changes in Windows 7. But I'll be in a tough decision come renewal time if you can't produce the goods.

Russell at IceTV

Quote from: hamping on July 24, 2009, 12:27:35 PM
Russell - It does seem to be working well.

Your comments on what if anything is being considered for implementation regarding the various additional capacities for metadata in WIN 7 would also be of interest.

Glad to hear it's working well.

The documentation for the Win7 guide supports a few more things that we could add, such as series number info, star ratings, images for programs and channels, guest actors, hosts, producers, and writers.  Some of these things, like series numbers, and the roles for people (guest actors, hosts, producers and writers) are definitely things we're looking into for a future release.  The star ratings and images are a bit harder, but it's something we could possibly add in the future.  Is there something else in particular you're looking for?

Russell

Russell at IceTV

Quote from: mjdoz on July 24, 2009, 04:41:43 PM
Russell,

I am not sure if this is something I am doing or a guide issue.  I am still seeing repeats being flagged for record even though the series settings are for "NEW" only.  This is not a big issue as it is better to record and delete rather than miss.

The latest one I noted was "Australian Story" ABC1 CH2 Sat 25/7 12:30 - 1:00pm  it is shown as original air date of 20/7/2009 which I am pretty certian was recorded on this PC.

Aside from that all looks great.

Michael

Hi Michael,

Yes, if it had an original air date that was only 5 days before, then Media Center would definitely still treat the second one as new as well.  I'd think it would only record the second one if the first one wasn't recorded, but maybe it's using some other logic I don't know about.  If you find other examples of the problem, let us know and we'll look into it.

Thanks,
Russell

Russell at IceTV

Quote from: McBanjo on July 29, 2009, 09:14:31 PM
I don't see why you can't switchover to this now. To be honest I didn't even notice the difference this update made.

Good that your switchover went so easy.  I hope it's that way for everyone.

Quote
If I could make a suggestion, IceTV should be focusing on key features like supporting remote recording from things like the iPhone app etc. rather than adding a cast list. It's your performance in staying up-to-date and on the ball in key areas that's much more important for your goodwill and reputation.

I'm sure you guys are working hard at this and trying all that you can to navigate the changes in Windows 7. But I'll be in a tough decision come renewal time if you can't produce the goods.

Is there something in particular you're still looking for in the iPhone app?  I assume you're aware of the updates we released to all of the Interactive sites, including the iPhone app, yesterday?  Maybe you hadn't tried them out yet when you posted that message?

If there's something in particular you're looking for, feel free to let us know.

Thanks,
Russell

McBanjo

Quote from: Russell at IceTV on July 30, 2009, 09:09:22 AM
Quote
If I could make a suggestion, IceTV should be focusing on key features like supporting remote recording from things like the iPhone app etc. rather than adding a cast list. It's your performance in staying up-to-date and on the ball in key areas that's much more important for your goodwill and reputation.

I'm sure you guys are working hard at this and trying all that you can to navigate the changes in Windows 7. But I'll be in a tough decision come renewal time if you can't produce the goods.

Is there something in particular you're still looking for in the iPhone app?  I assume you're aware of the updates we released to all of the Interactive sites, including the iPhone app, yesterday?  Maybe you hadn't tried them out yet when you posted that message?

If there's something in particular you're looking for, feel free to let us know.

Thanks,
Russell

I'm confused. You can't set things to record in Windows 7 with the iPhone app can you? This is the feature I'd request more than anything in the world. It's so handy and extremely useful when you're out, see something on a TV and want to record it.

hamping

#43
Quote from: Russell at IceTV on July 30, 2009, 09:03:35 AM
Quote from: hamping on July 24, 2009, 12:27:35 PM
Russell - It does seem to be working well.

Your comments on what if anything is being considered for implementation regarding the various additional capacities for metadata in WIN 7 would also be of interest.

Glad to hear it's working well.

The documentation for the Win7 guide supports a few more things that we could add, such as series number info, star ratings, images for programs and channels, guest actors, hosts, producers, and writers.  Some of these things, like series numbers, and the roles for people (guest actors, hosts, producers and writers) are definitely things we're looking into for a future release.  The star ratings and images are a bit harder, but it's something we could possibly add in the future.  Is there something else in particular you're looking for?

Russell

Russell, the images make for a really vibrant guide in Win7 and it is a great selling point for this kind of media centre. So I think it is well worth looking at. Channel logos are not so important because they can be added by individuals if they like. I agree that series numbers would also be really worthwhile.

The other thing was the ability for Win 7 to use its own abilities to import AMG data for movies.  There is something in Big Screen that puts the move information into a format that will cause the AMG data to be automatically imported.
regards

Russell at IceTV

Quote from: McBanjo on July 30, 2009, 04:08:43 PM
I'm confused. You can't set things to record in Windows 7 with the iPhone app can you? This is the feature I'd request more than anything in the world. It's so handy and extremely useful when you're out, see something on a TV and want to record it.

Ah, sorry, I misunderstood what you were asking about.

No, I'm afraid the Interactive client program for Windows 7 isn't available yet, and I don't have an ETA for it right now.  When it is, you'll be able to remotely schedule Windows 7 like the other PVRs we have client programs for, via the web sites and the iPhone app.

Russell