ABC HD

[wambo]

I have looked at the guide for the whole week and cant see any ABC HD listings? And yes I do have it ticked in my preferences for 'Interactive'.

I am in the Perth region.

[tonymy01]

Ahh, but do you have the "copy SD to empty holes in HD timeslots"?   ABC HD is empty for a reason, because ABC doesn't show much native HD material.   So really, if you don't see anything in the ICE guide, it is probably because ABC is simply upscaling their SD to the HD channel.   Only when there are unique or HD shows on ABCHD will you see something in the ICEguide without that other option ticked...

[wambo]

Quote:"Ahh, but do you have the "copy SD to empty holes in HD timeslots"? "

No I dont, as it says it may not work. I was comparing the Ice guide to the guide on yourTV.com.au which had a lot of entries for ABC HD, so I'm a little confused ??? :-\

[tonymy01]

They are merely showing the show names that will be displayed.  ICE is trying to show the unique material that differs to ABC1 on LCN2/21 and/or the truley HD material.   There isn't a lot of either, hence the whopping big giant hole in the ABCHD guide.   Tick that box, it works fine for what it sounds like you want (a guide where you don't care what is HD and what isn't).

edited to correct my "ABC2" reference.  I knew I was going to type that wrong one day, given the mixes of 1s and 2s and 21s and 22s (and the changes ABC did with the channel branding).

[prl]

They are merely showing the show names that will be displayed.  ICE is trying to show the unique material that differs to ABC2 and/or the truley HD material.   There isn't a lot of either, hence the whopping big giant hole in the ABCHD guide.   Tick that box, it works fine for what it sounds like you want (a guide where you don't care what is HD and what isn't).

Surely you mean ABC1, not ABC2. The ABC HD schedule has practically no overlap with ABC2.

And the IceTV guide only contains native HD programs on the ABC HD, it doesn't have an ABC HD guide entry when the ABC HD content is not native HD but is different from ABC1, like the 7:30pm News. The ABC HD 7:30 News has the same name but different content from the ABC1 7:30 News. This is most immediately noticeable in the weather report.

[Daniel Hall at IceTV]

They are merely showing the show names that will be displayed.  ICE is trying to show the unique material that differs to ABC2 and/or the truley HD material.   There isn't a lot of either, hence the whopping big giant hole in the ABCHD guide.   Tick that box, it works fine for what it sounds like you want (a guide where you don't care what is HD and what isn't).

Surely you mean ABC1, not ABC2. The ABC HD schedule has practically no overlap with ABC2.

And the IceTV guide only contains native HD programs on the ABC HD, it doesn't have an ABC HD guide entry when the ABC HD content is not native HD but is different from ABC1, like the 7:30pm News. The ABC HD 7:30 News has the same name but different content from the ABC1 7:30 News. This is most immediately noticeable in the weather report.

I think what you will find is that you are seeing the Sydney 7:30 News on ABC HD... so far all experiences point to all regions ABC HD being based off ABC 1 in Sydney.

[wambo]

   Tick that box, it works fine for what it sounds like you want (a guide where you don't care what is HD and what isn't).

I do care what is HD, as I would always want to record/watch HD over SD. I've noticed that the other HD stations show SD content, however if ABC HD only show HD and there guide is bare I'm happy with that, I can still choose my program from ABC1&2. Life would be easier for me if HD stations only show HD programs and not bother duplicating what there already showing on thier SD stations.

[prl]

They are merely showing the show names that will be displayed.  ICE is trying to show the unique material that differs to ABC2 and/or the truley HD material.   There isn't a lot of either, hence the whopping big giant hole in the ABCHD guide.   Tick that box, it works fine for what it sounds like you want (a guide where you don't care what is HD and what isn't).

Surely you mean ABC1, not ABC2. The ABC HD schedule has practically no overlap with ABC2.

And the IceTV guide only contains native HD programs on the ABC HD, it doesn't have an ABC HD guide entry when the ABC HD content is not native HD but is different from ABC1, like the 7:30pm News. The ABC HD 7:30 News has the same name but different content from the ABC1 7:30 News. This is most immediately noticeable in the weather report.

I think what you will find is that you are seeing the Sydney 7:30 News on ABC HD... so far all experiences point to all regions ABC HD being based off ABC 1 in Sydney.

In Canberra, ABC HD carries a national weather report, which is quite different from ABC1's Canberra region weather report, and I think, quite different from the Sydney weather report, but I'm not sure about the latter. Anyway, the ABC HD news is different from the ABC1 news in Canberra, but there is no entry for the News in the Canberra IceTV guide for ABC HD. I'm not saying one way or the other whether it should be there, just giving an example that's at odds with what tonymy01 says about how the ABC HD guide is constructed.

[tonymy01]

I edited my post above.   I definitely meant ABC1, not ABC2.   So my understanding is that ICE will look at what is unique for ABCHD vs ABC1, or what is definitely a HD program, and will have a guide for these only.   Since ICE is based in Sydney, this is their primary focus, and every other state is then attempted to be based off what they know about Sydney (so they attempt to delta other states later in the guide compilation process perhaps?).    So I guess the most accurate representation of ABCHD will be the Sydney guide?   Given that poor ICE has to do a lot of guesswork about what to put in the ABCHD guide (due to the poor information provided from Auntie most likely) it is probably a bit difficult to try to get the nuances of every region correct when even getting Sydney correct is a bit of a stretch.
ICE, correct me if I am wrong, I should not be speaking for you I suppose :-)

For anyone with only an SD setup, there is 99.9% no point in recording the ABCHD channel currently as it *rarely* has anything HD and rarely has anything actually different to what is on ABCSD.  All they do is upscale the SD channel to the HD channel most of the time, so recording the HD channel all you are doing is taking more HDD space on your PVR for no extra gain in quality due to the source being SD to begin with.      At least I believe this is why ICE has the strategy of "nearly nothing in the ABCHD guide"....

But to keep yourself happy, you can fill the gaps with an SD guide, there is a tick box in your account settings to do that, then the guide will be full and mostly accurate representation of what you are seeing when you are tuned to that channel.   But be aware that what you are seeing is identical as what is on the SD channel, and so you can save yourself a bit of HDD space to record the SD channel instead (I guess some might argue though that due to the slightly better bitrate of the 720p of ABCHD, the picture quality might be fractionally better on their setup then ABCSD.   This also depends on how well your STB or TV upscales ABCSD to your screen, does it do a better job than ABC's upscalers?  Maybe.

Sorry to repeat myself saying the same thing from a couple of different angles, but to me it seems pretty obvious why the ABCHD guide is the way it is and I am happy with how ICE is approaching it (assuming that ICE really does keep track of true HD shows and ABCHD programming differences as accurately as they can of course... I wouldn't be so happy if ICE kept missing stuff!).

Regards

[mikeathome]

There have been many posts as well as responses from ICE in this forum in the past and there are clearly two main sets of opinions. To (re) express the other, IMHO it is inappropriate for a guide to be blank when the relevant channel is in fact showing something. Blank places mean ERROR - they lead users to think that there is something wrong either with their equipment or with ICE  - and it is silly to suggest that all users should have to come to this forum to discover the reason for the gaps. ICE's treatment of ABC - different to the treatment of commercials - smacks more of idealogy than common sense - again my opinion. The only benefit is that the inclusion or not of an item in the HD guide shows users that a real HD offering is being shown. There are surely other ways of doing that - that then could also be applied to the commercials.

In Adelaide where I live ABCHD shows a different news service to ABC1 at 7pm. It does not seem to be local.

[prl]

There have been many posts as well as responses from ICE in this forum in the past and there are clearly two main sets of opinions. To (re) express the other, IMHO it is inappropriate for a guide to be blank when the relevant channel is in fact showing something. Blank places mean ERROR - they lead users to think that there is something wrong either with their equipment or with ICE  - and it is silly to suggest that all users should have to come to this forum to discover the reason for the gaps. ICE's treatment of ABC - different to the treatment of commercials - smacks more of idealogy than common sense - again my opinion. The only benefit is that the inclusion or not of an item in the HD guide shows users that a real HD offering is being shown. There are surely other ways of doing that - that then could also be applied to the commercials.

In Adelaide where I live ABCHD shows a different news service to ABC1 at 7pm. It does not seem to be local.

Is Ice's treatment of the ABC so different from its treatment of the commercials? Which commercial shows that aren't true HD or different content from the SD service show up in the guide for the HD service?

I think that you are correct that by IceTV's rules, the ABC HD news should be in the ABC HD guide, because it's different content from the ABC1 news, and I believe that some sport broadcasts have different content between ABC1 and ABC HD. But for the rest, you can overcome IceTV's "ideology" by a simple change of your IceTV settings.

Where there is a real difference in the rules is for SBS HD, which shows no content from a HD source on SBS HD, but the IceTV SBS HD EPG slots are all filled even if you don't have the "Copy SD EPG to HD" option set. I've got no idea why IceTV changed that (the IceTV SBS HD EPG used to be empty).

[mikeathome]

My TF7100 shows a continuous EPG for the commercial HD channels - there are only gaps in ABCHD. So yes, there is a difference in what I see. I don't have any way to know what is really HD and what is not, however I find it hard to believe that episodes of, for example, "Bewitched" (in todays 9HD guide) were recorded in HD.

My real point, and I've made it before here, is that gaps mean error to the average user. ICE should not be exposing itself to unnecessary criticism that it's guide is incomplete. ICE should not be relying on users bothering to find their way to this forum to remedy the problem. This is just my opinion and I am aware that it is not shared.

[prl]

My TF7100 shows a continuous EPG for the commercial HD channels - there are only gaps in ABCHD. So yes, there is a difference in what I see. I don't have any way to know what is really HD and what is not, however I find it hard to believe that episodes of, for example, "Bewitched" (in todays 9HD guide) were recorded in HD.

You apparently didn't read what I asked properly.

Which commercial shows that aren't true HD or different content from the SD service show up in the guide for the HD service?

While Bewitched is showing on Nine HD, Alive and Cooking is showing on Nine. Thanks for playing.

My real point, and I've made it before here, is that gaps mean error to the average user. ICE should not be exposing itself to unnecessary criticism that it's guide is incomplete. ICE should not be relying on users bothering to find their way to this forum to remedy the problem. This is just my opinion and I am aware that it is not shared.

Yep. But the forum isn't the only place you can find out about the HD policy. Try clicking the "What's this?" link next to the "Copy SD shows to HD channels" checkbox in the IceTV setup.

[jillmess]

While Bewitched is showing on Nine HD, Alive and Cooking is showing on Nine. Thanks for playing.

Except that where there are variations between ABC1 & ABC HD programming (Saturdays here in Qld) these do not show in the guide unless you select the "copy SD to HD" option. ???  Not particularly logical!

Jill

[prl]

While Bewitched is showing on Nine HD, Alive and Cooking is showing on Nine. Thanks for playing.

Except that where there are variations between ABC1 & ABC HD programming (Saturdays here in Qld) these do not show in the guide unless you select the "copy SD to HD" option. ???  Not particularly logical!

Jill

Yep, and the fact that ABC HD 7:30 News is different from ABC1 HD news, and that isn't reflected in the IceTV guide, either. But I mentioned that in my first reply to mikeathome.

I agree that there inconsistencies in the application of IceTV's "only show genuine HD and multicast programs in the HD guide". I still maintain, though that it's the SBS HD guide, not the ABC HD guide that has the greatest level of inconsistency. Mikeathome is yet to show an example where that policy isn't being followed on the commercial broadcasters IceTV guides, which was my challenge.

I just don't think that there's such a glaring difference between the way IceTV constructs the ABC HD guide from the way they construct the guides for the commercial stations as mikeathome seems to think. And anyway, there seems to be a simple option that he can enable in IceTV that would fix the problem as he sees it.

My main gripe is with the WIN HD guide. Have a look at that some time :) And there's no box to tick to fix that.