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Messages - hamping

#1
Windows Media Center / Re: IceTV Remote Recording
August 27, 2009, 10:46:09 PM
The word 'disappointment' wasn't actually used by anyone as far as I can see. Is it an offence to say what features are considered to be valuable? WIN 7 is in fact at RTM and it is available to whoever wants to download it. Whether or not ICE Tv supports all features is not the point. The features that it should support now or later is what this forum is partly about. Ppl will obviously decide whether or not they want to subscribe to ICE TV based on they service they receive and whether it meets their needs and ICTV is entitled to know what ppl are thinking without thought police telling them what they should or should not be thinking.
#2
Quote from: Russell at IceTV on July 30, 2009, 09:03:35 AM
Quote from: hamping on July 24, 2009, 12:27:35 PM
Russell - It does seem to be working well.

Your comments on what if anything is being considered for implementation regarding the various additional capacities for metadata in WIN 7 would also be of interest.

Glad to hear it's working well.

The documentation for the Win7 guide supports a few more things that we could add, such as series number info, star ratings, images for programs and channels, guest actors, hosts, producers, and writers.  Some of these things, like series numbers, and the roles for people (guest actors, hosts, producers and writers) are definitely things we're looking into for a future release.  The star ratings and images are a bit harder, but it's something we could possibly add in the future.  Is there something else in particular you're looking for?

Russell

Russell, the images make for a really vibrant guide in Win7 and it is a great selling point for this kind of media centre. So I think it is well worth looking at. Channel logos are not so important because they can be added by individuals if they like. I agree that series numbers would also be really worthwhile.

The other thing was the ability for Win 7 to use its own abilities to import AMG data for movies.  There is something in Big Screen that puts the move information into a format that will cause the AMG data to be automatically imported.
regards
#3
Russell - It does seem to be working well.

Your comments on what if anything is being considered for implementation regarding the various additional capacities for metadata in WIN 7 would also be of interest.

Regards

#4
Quote from: NiallG on July 15, 2009, 03:41:15 PM
Quote from: hamping on July 15, 2009, 12:30:46 PM
Niall, what data do you think that ICE TV will not be able to include?
I doubt you will ever even get to see the channel logos from icetv (given the relationship between icetv and the "big boys") - and as for providing a list of the other '11 secret herbs and spices' - no thanks.....  ;D..




Well, with respect, that's not very helpful either. Logos are not a compelling reason to use BSG EPG. Its a one off process and there is freely available software available to to do it (as you know).

If you want to say that ICE Tv's service can't and won't be able to do something with WIN 7 as well as BSG EPG can or will do, you need to at least say what it is. I'm just asking why you see the service that this forum relates to is or will always be deficient? Is it limited to the AMG data and certain cover photos? This is quite different to saying how you achieve it from a software engineering persepctive.  And given that the answers about what WIN 7 is capable of is all in a Microsoft specification somewhere, its probably not such a secret anyway. It is, however, a good thing to discuss here for the benefit of subscribers....
#5
Quote from: NiallG on July 15, 2009, 10:36:21 AM
Quote from: hamping on July 14, 2009, 06:51:59 PM
Quote from: NiallG on July 14, 2009, 12:23:39 PM

Anyhow - if you've got any q's about Big Screen EPG etc - please visit the abovementioned threads for more. If you want to use both products together - and you want to help make that experience as nice and workable as possible - then please contact icetv and tell them so (and hopefully encourage them to actually answer/follow up my emails to them over past few months).

cheers
Niall


Niall, I think that the program you have written is great but probably too hard for most non-tech/time poor users. However, my view is that if you have subscribed to the data from ICE Tv and ICE Tv support windows 7, then they should support a native feed that already has all relevant meta data in the right format for Win 7. If they ultimately don't do this, they will lose subscribers.

From my understanding - icetv won't be able to offer 100% of the metadata required at any point for windows 7 (even when they do fix up the metadata 'issues' in current implementation).   

The solution I offer is actually very simple and quick for a non-technical user to get going (and actually a lot simpler then the process required to get the icetv win7 solution going - which looks very technical atm once 'all' the required steps are taken). For Big Screen EPG installation/configuration - there's currently a couple of 'enhancement' steps in there (which aren't 100% necessary) which require some user interaction - and it's all these steps that could be completely eliminated if there was some co-operation from icetv (and make the installation of big screen epg for icetv a complete no brainer - with no configuration steps required at all except for user supplying their icetv username/password).  Anyhow you'd probably need to have a look at v0.4x of my product (and set it up for icetv) to understand what I'm getting at here. (and use your imagination on what a 'big screen epg for icetv' installer might look like - if I had some agreed integration points with their service).



Niall, what data do you think that ICE TV will not be able to include?
#6
Quote from: NiallG on July 14, 2009, 12:23:39 PM

Anyhow - if you've got any q's about Big Screen EPG etc - please visit the abovementioned threads for more. If you want to use both products together - and you want to help make that experience as nice and workable as possible - then please contact icetv and tell them so (and hopefully encourage them to actually answer/follow up my emails to them over past few months).

cheers
Niall


Niall, I think that the program you have written is great but probably too hard for most non-tech/time poor users. However, my view is that if you have subscribed to the data from ICE Tv and ICE Tv support windows 7, then they should support a native feed that already has all relevant meta data in the right format for Win 7. If they ultimately don't do this, they will lose subscribers.
#7
Quote from: Freefall on July 14, 2009, 05:44:35 PM
Quote from: Russell at IceTV on July 13, 2009, 06:34:22 AM
Quote from: dgaust on July 12, 2009, 07:57:34 PM
Quote from: asummerf on July 12, 2009, 06:54:41 PM
There seems to be a problem with series finales.  For example next weeks castle, I have a series recording setup which is recording tonights episode quite happily and not matching the next weeks final episode.  Only thing that I can think of is the title change, normal episode called "Castle" and next week it is "Castle - Season Finale".

Sounds like it's EIT data mixed in. That's something the broadcasters do, IceTV wouldn't change the title of the show for a finale because it would screw up season recordings.

Yes, that's right, it sounds like the over-the-air EIT guide data mixed in.  I just checked, and we only have one series called Castle, and the finale has the same name, with the episode "A Death in the Family".

You might want to disable the EIT data on your IceTV channels.  I just now added this tip to the first Windows 7 EPG Beta Readme post at the top of this board:

Tip: Disable EIT guide data
Once you get the IceTV guide data working, you won't need (or want) the limited guide data that's sent over the air with digital channels.  Here's how to disable it:


  • Go to Tasks / Settings / TV / Guide / Edit Channels.
  • Click one of the channel names that you've enabled with a check mark (for example: ABC1-IceTV).
  • Click "Edit Listings", and then click "Disable Inband".  Then click Save, and then Save again, to take you back to the Edit Channels page.
  • Repeat for each enabled IceTV channel, then click Save on the Edit Channels page when done.



I'm getting what looks like mixed guide data in my listings too, but only for Win TV Canberra and Win TV HD.  I've disabled the inband listings for all my channels and re-run the script to download the IceTV guide data but am still getting some entries that look like they come from the EIT.  For example, tonight at 7:30 in Canberra on Win TV the Harry Potter movie is displayed as "Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban -Rpt" whereas on the Ice TV site it says "MOVIE: Harry Potter & The Prisoner of Azkaban (2004)".


I had this problem on RC 7100 x64 when I installed having only deleted the .db file mentioned in my first post above. Once I repeated the procedure using the full MCE reset, I don't think I have had any EIT data coming back. So I can only suggest that you might need to do a full reset (once again)....
#8
Quote from: muzzakus on July 14, 2009, 04:19:50 PM
Quote from: NiallG on July 14, 2009, 12:23:39 PM
Quote from: hamping on July 14, 2009, 12:04:15 AM
Quote from: muzzakus on July 13, 2009, 06:32:54 PM
Tell us more about this Big Screen EPG.  Is this the ultimate EPG solution and a should be incorporated into the mix to get most out of the MCE configs ?

See the thread here: http://www.xpmediacentre.com.au/community/big-screen-software/37329-big-screen-epg-v0-4-discussion-support-thread-14.html

It's beta software.  Seems from the post above that ICE Tv can, subject to any legal issue, provide a lot of the full meta-data smarts in its native feed to WIN 7 - if they want to. Its just a question of implementation.

Big Screen would be essential if you were trying to process feeds from hundreds of disparate sources and needed to organise all that information. But ICE Tv only has to deal with a few Free To Air stations in Aus, so they should easily be able to apply all relevant data for WIN 7 directly into their feeds....most of it is already there as far as I can see...


Hi to try and answer those q's above :

Everything to do with Windows 7 / EPG is regarded as 'Beta' software because Windows 7 itself is still in beta (and may change
...
...
...
icetv and tell them so (and hopefully encourage them to actually answer/follow up my emails to them over past few months).

cheers
Niall



This sounds totally awesome.  Don't have time to to read the Beta thread so I'll be one of those gys that comes out and shoots without doing their homework....


I'm happy to pay for quality EPG data with ICE.  The Q is, Can Big Screen EPG software directly download the xml directly from ICE at scheduled intervals with my credentials, and do it's fixing and enchncing all in the one integrated cycle.  This would be the ideal no?   Why double handle the process with multiple layers if not needed.




Yes, that is precisely what it does.
#9
Quote from: muzzakus on July 13, 2009, 06:32:54 PM
Tell us more about this Big Screen EPG.  Is this the ultimate EPG solution and a should be incorporated into the mix to get most out of the MCE configs ?



See the thread here: http://www.xpmediacentre.com.au/community/big-screen-software/37329-big-screen-epg-v0-4-discussion-support-thread-14.html

It's beta software.  Seems from the post above that ICE Tv can, subject to any legal issue, provide a lot of the full meta-data smarts in its native feed to WIN 7 - if they want to. Its just a question of implementation.

Big Screen would be essential if you were trying to process feeds from hundreds of disparate sources and needed to organise all that information. But ICE Tv only has to deal with a few Free To Air stations in Aus, so they should easily be able to apply all relevant data for WIN 7 directly into their feeds....most of it is already there as far as I can see...

#10
Quote
Yes, I am, as well as the ability to add logo's to the guide grid.  It is possible for IceTV to add images and guide logos, however that might throw up various copyright issues so it'd be something that their lawyers would need to consider.

IF Big Screen can do it, presumably ICE Tv can too.., but then Big Screen hasn't been to the high court on a copyright case yet!

b.t.w, the the Geo code hack hasn't resulted in any AMG data popping up for me. Is there anything else to do other than that. Do you need to install MC after changing the value, or can you simply rely on mcupdate.exe -uf ?
#11
Quote
BSE injects this information for you. It's not part of the IceTV guide data.

The meta-data for movies from AMG most likely disappeared because the MCE reset will have set the GeoISO2 registry key back to AU from US. Sometimes MCUpdate will also set it back. You can use this app I created to monitor the registry key and if it changes from US to something else, it will change it back. Just drop it in your startup folder.

Thanks. The URL you gave above seems to have a problem. Could you repost it?

When you talk about BSE injecting data, are you talking about the cover art for normal TV programs? If it is doing this, seems like a good thing for ICE Tv to put on the to do list....
#12
Russell

I wonder if you have any ideas on this one.

While IceTV was fixng the data for Win 7, I had been passing Ice TV data through the Big Screen EPG program. The differnce I now notice going back to the feed direct form Ice TV I am not getting any cover art for programs and meta data from AMG on movies etc.  Is there an easy explanation for this?
#13
I have loaded the new EPG into RC7100 x64.

The first thing to note is that you cant reset the database if you are running Win7 x64 because the reset function is broken in WIN 7 RC 7100- 72xx. You will need to either restore your system or reinstall windows if you do.   

The only solution that seems to work is Dumsum's suggestion here: http://www.xpmediacentre.com.au/community/big-screen-software/37329-big-screen-epg-v0-4-discussion-support-thread-2.html

I did this on x64 and found that everything seems to work smoothly. The channels were perfectly mapped. And the schedules for series recording seems to work!  I will follow up with another post in a day or so when I have observed this for a bit longer.

Thanks for fixing this Russell!


#14
Quote from: mjdoz on July 06, 2009, 04:52:57 PM
I have upgraded two of my three PC's that use ICE from Vista to Windows 7.  I cannot see where I can change the OS to Windows 7 under my account.  Should I just leave them as Vista or chnage them to something else?

Thanks

Michael

There is no need to change anything at this stage as the feed is not determined by those account settings until WIN 7 is properly supported.
#15
Quote from: Russell at IceTV on July 03, 2009, 11:12:16 PM
Guys,

Just to let you know, we're working on the Windows 7 problems that I mentioned at the top of this thread, and have them just about done.  We need to do some final testing, and then we'll release it, most likely in the next few days.  Sorry it's taking so long, but we're just about there.

Russell

I am told that I have been unfair, so let me be the second to say 'thanks' for this advice. Greatly looking forward to testing the new build of the beta program.