If, like me, you discovered today that your 7100+ recorder(s) reboot every 30 seconds and do not respond correctly always to the remote, it seems to be caused by an issue with ICE as the problem goes away if ICE is disabled. Nobody answered the phone at ICE tech support so I don't know whether or not the issue has already been reported.
I checked both my 7100+ and nether has reported a reboot since 29-2-16, 16:00.
What version firmware are you using? Are you in a daylight saving region?
What service was it on when the reboot happens, or does it happen with all services?
Are you running any TAPs.
Ian
The 7100+, 2400 and 2460 PVRs will reboot with IceTV enabled if there are conflicting channels or conflicting/duplicate LCNs set in your IceTV account.
As you have each channel set to one LCN and all correctly set this is not the problem in your case.
Another possible cause is incorrectly set channel mapping. The channel map settings can be accessed either; from one of the coloured buttons in the "Menu > Settings >IceTV" menu, or while viewing live TV press OK then press the Yellow button.
My 7100 added Ten HD as a radio channel! Maybe the 7100+ does the same thing?
Otherwise it will be that the 7100+ can handle the amount of guide data from IceTV when 23 TV channels are enabled in the IceTV account. It is a known issue that Topfield PVRs don't have enough memory or don't allocate enough memory for processing the IceTV EPG and schedules. The solution for this is to disable any channels that you don't watch or don't need in your account.
https://www.icetv.com.au/cgi-bin/webmembers.cgi
Once the Topfield PVR has processed and displayed the guide for the enabled channels you may be able to re-enable the channels that you disabled (if you want to).
Quote from: Dave at IceTV on March 01, 2016, 04:56:08 PM
Otherwise it will be that the 7100+ can handle the amount of guide data from IceTV when 23 TV channels are enabled in the IceTV account.
Interesting that Ian has the same 23 channels enabled but has 28 LCNs set - while Mike only has 1 LCN per channel set.
The difference could be firmware version, or region (Mike and Ian are in different capitol cities). Nobody else in Mike's city has reported the rebooting issue with a Topfield (of any model).
Mike, if you haven't already please clear the service list and search the channels again.
http://support.icetv.com.au/entries/54289800-How-do-update-to-the-new-channels-on-my-Topfield
Or better yet, do a factory reset.
http://support.icetv.com.au/entries/20177028-How-to-do-a-factory-reset
As the IceTV firmware module is, as far as I am aware, identical on the 7100+, 2400/2460 and the 5300/5310/5320 I would expect the same vulnerability. Another possibility, that I mentioned on the Topfield forum, is my system ID of is 32030? If you the Toppys have have system ID 32031 there could be differences which explain why I am not having problems.
I am running firmware December 2013 (1.10.00) whereas those with the issue are running Feb 20 2012 and Sept 26 2012 firmware. My recollection is that both 2012 firmware run the current version of the Topfield IceTV module.
There are numerous reports of LCNs getting scrambled, even multiple entries, when uses have done service scan for the introduction of 7flix and/or 10HD. Also for those regions that now getting the equivalent of 9HD. This issues has been noted with more recent firmware than that being considered here. Although I have a dim recollection that I had problems with one of my 7100+ units.
Ian
Both of mine are 32030's. My rebooting problem was gone when I re-enabled ICE TV later this afternoon so I guessed that Dave had fixed whatever was causing it. Thus far I haven't altered any settings on my recorders.
I have two 2400 machines. One in the bedroom and one in the lounge room
This rebooting started this morning (Sunday 6th March).
After trial and error I also narrowed it down to IceTV access.
Once I turned the IceTV access off they both stopped rebooting.
I tentatively turned the IceTV access back on later in the afternoon and it seems OK at the moment.
I have also removed duplicate programs from the tuner and have set the IceTV account LCNs to specific values rather than 'all'
I have the Aug 4 2014 firmware in both machines (which occasionally reboot when I insert/remove a USB stick).
The System Id = 32020
Loader version = v1.03
Device version = v1.0.1
App version = TF-BCPF 2.02.00
I will be on holidays for 5 weeks starting Wednesday and a friend will be looking after my place.
I hope they don't encounter any issues while I am away.
Well here we go again, as at yesterday morning 6/03/2016, YEP both my 2460 and 7100 plus, rebooting soon after power up, (loading ICE guide), so went and disabled ABC2 in ICETV settings, saved settings, and turned on both toppys (Guess what, ALL GOOD.) had this same problem with old 7100 late last year, same fix, must be something in ABC2 again, can you guys have a look and see if you can find it (may be a character again in the guide that toppys don't like)
Please advise ???
The rebooting has started again today (Tues Mar 8th).
I followed Dazza's solution and disabled ABC2 which 'seems' to have rectified it.
But I will want to record some shows from ABC2 while I am away for 5 weeks so 'not good'
Is anyone from IceTV looking at this?.
There has been no respone here after Dazza's entry regarding 'bad' characters being transmitted to the PVRs.
I too have been experiencing random and continuous rebooting on my 2460 since about the start of this Month. I can confirm that disabling IceTV stops the problem. I have since tried Dazza's workaround of disabling ABC2 and so far this also seems to work. I can only reach the same conclusion that something about ABC2 is causing IceTV to generate random restarts on my machine. Hope IceTV can get to the bottom of this and provide a fix soon.
This problem, which is happening again to me now, started on March 1. For the 4 years or so that I have been using ICE on my 2 7100+ devices there was no problem. As I changed nothing on my devices on 1st Mar (other than the auto date) the issue is being caused by some change made at the ICE end. I'm wondering why things can't just be set back to the working condition that we had in the past?
I don't have the capacity (or interest) to be checking my PVRs continuously to see whether or not the problem has re-emerged so the only solution for me is to leave ICE disabled and to set my recordings manually. This leaves me with little incentive to continue my subscription - this would be sad after 12 or so years.
Can some try it now and confirm if it is fixed or not?
You should clear the guide with the red button while in the IceTV menu on the Topfield to ensure it is getting the latest data.
Dave, there is a report on the Topfield Australia Forum that the problem is now fixed: http://topfield.forumchitchat.com/post/ice-tv-causes-continuous-reboot-7957756?trail=15#13
Ian
Thanks Ian.
Okay I nearly purchased a new machine today as it keep rebooting. I still have the issues as of 7:30PM Perth time. I have disabled ABC2 on my ICE account menu for channels and am trying to get the top to stop rebooting. I got into the menu for ICE and pressed the red button and then restarted the toppy.
Am I meant to turn ABC2 back on, I can forgo the data if that stops this issue as it driving me mad and I am missing shows.
I will say I am happy on certain days to try and play with different settings.
The problem went away for me late afternoon I understand (I was out but the family tells me that it "fixed itself"). This is now the third or fourth time that the issue has occurred and been "fixed" in the last week. Can Dave or someone else from Ice please advise when the fix is permanent and it's safe to re-enable ICE on our recorders.
Mike, you have 7flix enabled in your account and IceTV is trying to set recordings on 7flix. One for tonight failed due to a missing channel.
There's another scheduled for 7flix due to be set in 2 days so you might want to sort out the channels on your Topfield before then.
Quote from: vincent on March 08, 2016, 10:33:52 PM
Am I meant to turn ABC2 back on, I can forgo the data if that stops this issue as it driving me mad and I am missing shows.
If you don't watch or record ABC2 you can leave it disabled forever. ABC2 is mostly kids shows and Doctor Who reruns.
If you are curious if the problem was found and fixed you can re-enabled ABC2 now.
Dave there is a report of this problem persisting on a 2400 located in Perth - see Topfield forum: http://topfield.forumchitchat.com/post/constant-rebooting-7996789?trail=15#9
Ian
So did you find the issue Dave, and just out of interest what was causing it ??
Hi Dazza,
We found a foreign character entered as plain text instead of a html entity. It was something like Ó which should have been converted to
Ó
We changed it to an O as it was part of an english name.
Thanks for the reply Dave, that would probably be it I would think. :P
We now have the problem in Melbourne; I have a 2400 and 7100+ in rebooting loops. Diabled IceTV for the moment and will stop sending EPG data for ABC2.
Ian
Dave, sorry to say, soon after I re-enabled ABC2, the rebooting started again on my 2460. Disabling ABC2 again stopped the problem for me.
Quote from: IanL-S on March 09, 2016, 08:11:22 PM
We now have the problem in Melbourne; I have a 2400 and 7100+ in rebooting loops. Disabled IceTV for the moment and will stop sending EPG data for ABC2.
I'm not seeing it on my 2460 using the Melbourne guide or the Sydney guide. The Melbourne xml file passed a w3c validation check okay.
I'm wondering if there's some other variable involved. Are you seeing rebooting from the Topfields in both accounts?
In one account I notice 2 of your 7100plus PVRs have a few timer conflicts on Ten HD, and the 2400 has a general error and an invalid channel error. In another account none of the PVRs have any errors.
Dave, has the issue with 7flix anything to do with the rebooting issue or is that something separate? I am pretty sure that I didn't tick the 7flix box on my account, I haven't heard of this channel before and haven't manually scheduled any recordings for it - maybe one of my series recordings made the reservations you mention. I don't have any way to check what the reservation was/is that I can see.
Back to the rebooting issue. This is still occurring on both my recorders whenever I enable ICE. If disabling ABC2 is the suggested solution, that is unacceptable to me as I have a 6 yo daughter and that is the only channel we let her watch.
I still do not understand why this problem has suddenly started happening after so many years. If, as it would seem, something has been changed at your end why is it that the system cannot be reverted to it's previous working state? As it is I cannot enable ICE for fear that the rebooting will continue/reoccur and I will miss recordings - so I am scheduling my recordings manually.
The ABC guide data comes direct from ABC and sometimes they include weird characters that cause Topfield PVRs problems. Previously it was only the old 7100 (not 7100plus) that had the rebooting problem when unsafe characters crept in to the guide.
We are thinking about how best to verify the data before it gets sent to PVRs.
Quote from: Dave at IceTV on March 09, 2016, 11:00:07 PM
Quote from: IanL-S on March 09, 2016, 08:11:22 PM
We now have the problem in Melbourne; I have a 2400 and 7100+ in rebooting loops. Disabled IceTV for the moment and will stop sending EPG data for ABC2.
I'm not seeing it on my 2460 using the Melbourne guide or the Sydney guide. The Melbourne xml file passed a w3c validation check okay.
I'm wondering if there's some other variable involved. Are you seeing rebooting from the Topfields in both accounts?
In one account I notice 2 of your 7100plus PVRs have a few timer conflicts on Ten HD, and the 2400 has a general error and an invalid channel error. In another account none of the PVRs have any errors.
Dave, thanks for looking into this.
Both the problematic Toppys are on the same account. The 2400 had a firmware update done on it a couple of days ago; I did a factory reset both before and after installation, so I would not expect any issues. Yes, I am aware of the timer conflicts on the 7100+; there have been a few recently because they only have two tuners. It would be weird if the 2400 that is working properly has the errors. Out of abundant caution I will do service reset on both of them. On the 2400 it would reboot before I could clear the EPG cache.
Ian
Update: Doing a factory reset does not solve the problem (see discussion in new thread http://forum.icetv.com.au/iceforum/topfield/9/trf-2400-plus-tf7100hdpvrt-reboot-when-logging-in-to-icetv-melbourne/5051/msg26885#msg26885 ). The problem cannot be naughty character in ABC2 data as I have deselected ABC2 data.
My 2400 in Sydney has started rebooting. I removed the network cable and it stopped rebooting.
Now that it also seems to be affecting Topfield 2400's in Sydney, I checked to see what FW I'm running on as so far I've not had any issues with this.
I'm still on:
July 2012 FW,
System ID302020,
Loader vs 1.02,
Device Vs 1.01
Application Vs TF-BCPF 1.18.00
Hopefully this might help resolve whether later FW version(s) are at fault. I have nearly all Sydney stations in my EPG, Inc ABC2 of course.
I waited 30 minutes. Reconnected the network cable and forced an ICE login from the menu. The EPG seems to have reloaded and it is stable. Strange.
UPDATE: It occurred to me that my investigation last night could not point to ICE as being the definitive cause of the reboots.
My PVR rebooted 5 times, but each time my wife tried to restart the recordings that we were missing.
When I removed the network cable, we also did not restart the recordings.
Unless ICE "fixed" the problem between 20:30-21:00 last night, then another cause could be likely.
I have had the problem on a 7100+ running 18 November 2013 firmware and a 2400 (now) running 29 Jan 2016 firmware. In each case, this is the latest firmware. Four other Toppys (7100+, 2400, 5300) running latest firmware do not appear to have had the problem.
The TRF-2400 seems to have recovered completely (I think I did a new firmware installation) but the 7100+ got so bad I disabled IceTV. I will look more closely at the 7100+ today to see if there is some other cause, although rebooting when trying to make device selection does seem telling.
Ian
It is definitely a problem with the IceTV servers; see my latest post in the thread below:
http://forum.icetv.com.au/iceforum/topfield/9/trf-2400-plus-tf7100hdpvrt-reboot-when-logging-in-to-icetv-melbourne/5051/
Ian
Quote from: JPP on March 10, 2016, 09:15:44 PM
Now that it also seems to be affecting Topfield 2400's in Sydney, I checked to see what FW I'm running on as so far I've not had any issues with this.
I'm still on:
July 2012 FW,
System ID302020,
Loader vs 1.02,
Device Vs 1.01
Application Vs TF-BCPF 1.18.00
Hopefully this might help resolve whether later FW version(s) are at fault. I have nearly all Sydney stations in my EPG, Inc ABC2 of course.
Version information of my Sydney Topfield PVRs - which are
not rebooting.
TRF-2460
System ID 32026
Loader Version v1.03
Device Version v1.01
Application TF-BCPF 2.02.00
Last Update Aug 4 2014
TF7100pvrt
System ID 32050
Loader Version v0.48
Device Version v1.0.01
Application v1.11.42
Last Update May 6 2010
It does not appear to be an IceTV problem. I have never experienced it here with my 2460 or 7100pvrt. We've only had about 5 emails from customers having the rebooting issue. Plus the 5 or 6 people posting here equals about a dozen (from different regions), which is a tiny percentage of total Topfield owners using IceTV.
Topfield PVRs have always been memory limited when it comes to processing guide data - especially the 7100. As new channels came online over the years IceTV has needed to implement hacks to work around the Topfield's limited memory. Hacks like sending 50% of the schedules in the first fetch and the remaining schedules in the next fetch. IceTV support has also needed to advise customers to limit the number of channels enabled in their account. Setting channels with multiple LCNs to 1 specific LCN instead of leaving the channel set to 'All' became a requirement 3 or 4 years ago to help the Topfield PVRs cope with their limited memory (or limited memory allocated to IceTV processing).
Note: This is different to Topfields in regional areas that will always reboot if all channels in the IceTV account are enabled and set to 'All' because there are duplicate/conflicting channels if they are all enabled. Conflicting channels like 7mate on LCN 70 and 7 Digital on LCN 70. And duplicate channels like Prime Northern and Prime Southern both on LCNs 6, 60 and 61.
This hardware or firmware limitation is more obvious after a factory reset or service scan when the Topfield needs to process the full 7 day EPG for all channels plus process all schedules for the whole week. In normal use the Topfield only needs to process a couple of hours of new EPG data and a few new schedules, as it already has the other data.
On my 2460 and 7100 I have all Sydney channels enabled but zero schedules setup and my Topfields have never rebooted since the new channels came online. Too many schedules has never caused rebooting before.
- Too many schedules causes a Topfield to stop updating schedules.
- Too much guide data causes Topfields to reboot.
- Conflicting channels enabled causes Topfields to reboot.
There are other things that can cause a Topfield to reboot but they aren't relevant here - unless people are running TAPs (Topfield Applications) or their Topfield has a hardware fault that only causes the Topfield to reboot when stressed to the limit.
As a test, someone with the rebooting issue could limit the number of LCNs and channels in My Account on the IceTV website (https://www.icetv.com.au/cgi-bin/webmembers.cgi) to see if the rebooting stops. If it does, then re-enable those channels to confirm that this was the cause. Then disable them again to double check. Disabling channels with more guide data (more programs) like some of the ABC and SBS channels might get a result quicker.
Note: Channels need to be disabled on the right hand side (unticking on the left hand side just hides that channel from the website).
If we can be sure that too much guide data is the cause of the rebooting we can implement a work-around for Topfield PVRs.
I reduced the number of LCNs and the rebooting may be fixed. At any rate it immediately downloaded the EPG data, something it refused to do before. Will report progress.
I disabled LC 9, 93, 44, 3.
Ian
My 2400 is rebooting again this afternoon. I will try to limit the LCNs and see what happens.
Update: I removed some duplicate channels and have had no further reboots. I will try adding channels tomorrow and see what happens.
Quote from: Dave at IceTV on March 11, 2016, 02:54:35 PM
It does not appear to be an IceTV problem. I have never experienced it here with my 2460 or 7100pvrt. We've only had about 5 emails from customers having the rebooting issue. Plus the 5 or 6 people posting here equals about a dozen (from different regions), which is a tiny percentage of total Topfield owners using IceTV.
Topfield PVRs have always been memory limited when it comes to processing guide data - especially the 7100. As new channels came online over the years IceTV has needed to implement hacks to work around the Topfield's limited memory. Hacks like sending 50% of the schedules in the first fetch and the remaining schedules in the next fetch. IceTV support has also needed to advise customers to limit the number of channels enabled in their account. Setting channels with multiple LCNs to 1 specific LCN instead of leaving the channel set to 'All' became a requirement 3 or 4 years ago to help the Topfield PVRs cope with their limited memory (or limited memory allocated to IceTV processing).
Note: This is different to Topfields in regional areas that will always reboot if all channels in the IceTV account are enabled and set to 'All' because there are duplicate/conflicting channels if they are all enabled. Conflicting channels like 7mate on LCN 70 and 7 Digital on LCN 70. And duplicate channels like Prime Northern and Prime Southern both on LCNs 6, 60 and 61.
This hardware or firmware limitation is more obvious after a factory reset or service scan when the Topfield needs to process the full 7 day EPG for all channels plus process all schedules for the whole week. In normal use the Topfield only needs to process a couple of hours of new EPG data and a few new schedules, as it already has the other data.
On my 2460 and 7100 I have all Sydney channels enabled but zero schedules setup and my Topfields have never rebooted since the new channels came online. Too many schedules has never caused rebooting before.
- Too many schedules causes a Topfield to stop updating schedules.
- Too much guide data causes Topfields to reboot.
- Conflicting channels enabled causes Topfields to reboot.
There are other things that can cause a Topfield to reboot but they aren't relevant here - unless people are running TAPs (Topfield Applications) or their Topfield has a hardware fault that only causes the Topfield to reboot when stressed to the limit.
As a test, someone with the rebooting issue could limit the number of LCNs and channels in My Account on the IceTV website (https://www.icetv.com.au/cgi-bin/webmembers.cgi) to see if the rebooting stops. If it does, then re-enable those channels to confirm that this was the cause. Then disable them again to double check. Disabling channels with more guide data (more programs) like some of the ABC and SBS channels might get a result quicker.
Note: Channels need to be disabled on the right hand side (unticking on the left hand side just hides that channel from the website).
If we can be sure that too much guide data is the cause of the rebooting we can implement a work-around for Topfield PVRs.
We have a 2460 and a 2400 and both of them had the rebooting constantly. As per your comments we disabled the channels we didn't need, made sure channels showing all were adjusted to their specific channel number. This appears to have fixed the issue. Both PVRs have stopped rebooting.
As for your comment of not many people having this issue, our normal course when having issues is to read threads like this to see if there has been a solution but we don't normally post anything, this is the first time. So, just because you don't have a large amount of complaints doesn't automatically mean that there aren't that many people effected as I'm sure there are many people like us that don't normally post.
Thanks for the final solution.
Quote from: Jimmyd on March 12, 2016, 07:56:54 PM
Quote from: Dave at IceTV on March 11, 2016, 02:54:35 PM
As a test, someone with the rebooting issue could limit the number of LCNs and channels in My Account on the IceTV website (https://www.icetv.com.au/cgi-bin/webmembers.cgi) to see if the rebooting stops. If it does, then re-enable those channels to confirm that this was the cause. Then disable them again to double check. Disabling channels with more guide data (more programs) like some of the ABC and SBS channels might get a result quicker.
Note: Channels need to be disabled on the right hand side (unticking on the left hand side just hides that channel from the website).
If we can be sure that too much guide data is the cause of the rebooting we can implement a work-around for Topfield PVRs.
We have a 2460 and a 2400 and both of them had the rebooting constantly. As per your comments we disabled the channels we didn't need, made sure channels showing all were adjusted to their specific channel number. This appears to have fixed the issue. Both PVRs have stopped rebooting.
As for your comment of not many people having this issue, our normal course when having issues is to read threads like this to see if there has been a solution but we don't normally post anything, this is the first time. So, just because you don't have a large amount of complaints doesn't automatically mean that there aren't that many people effected as I'm sure there are many people like us that don't normally post.
Thanks for the final solution.
Thanks for the feedback Jimmy.
You are right. If there are 5 people posting the same problem on a forum we can be sure there are many more people that have the same problem but don't post.
Quote from: Dave at IceTV on March 12, 2016, 11:27:38 PM
You are right. If there are 5 people posting the same problem on a forum we can be sure there are many more people that have the same problem but don't post.
Perhaps you could analyse the logs of your PIMP server and see how many closely timed EPG fetches there are from the same PVR.
From memory, the PVR should attempt a PIMP fetch every 15 minutes, if you find the same PVR fetching every 5 minutes or so before being throttled, you could have a PVR stuck on a reboot cycle.
It's up to you, but if you were to detect such a PVR, would you take any action like possibly emailing the user to advise them of the solution or even drop a few channels on their behalf?
You may not even need to check the log, you could just email every user that has got a PVR registered as a Topfield telling them that there MAY be a problem and to check on the Topfield forum for a solution.
Quote from: DeltaMikeCharlie on March 13, 2016, 06:43:55 AM
Perhaps you could analyse the logs of your PIMP server and see how many closely timed EPG fetches there are from the same PVR.
From memory, the PVR should attempt a PIMP fetch every 15 minutes, if you find the same PVR fetching every 5 minutes or so before being throttled, you could have a PVR stuck on a reboot cycle.
That's actually a good idea.
Humax PVRs will fetch every 1 or 2 minutes if their network connection is too slow or dropping packets. TMS Topfields are fetching exactly every 2 minutes if there are too many channels enabled.
Detecting the problem and proactively emailing the user to advise them of the solution would reduce our support workload.
Quote from: DeltaMikeCharlie on March 13, 2016, 06:43:55 AM
or even drop a few channels on their behalf?
The problem with this is how do pick which channels a customer doesn't need without asking them first.
Quote from: DeltaMikeCharlie on March 13, 2016, 06:43:55 AM
You may not even need to check the log, you could just email every user that has got a PVR registered as a Topfield telling them that there MAY be a problem and to check on the Topfield forum for a solution.
That is also a good idea.
Though I feel it would be better, for Topfield PVRs, if we automatically send half the channel's EPG data in one fetch and send the rest in the next fetch. So each alternate fetch gets a different half of their guide data. We already do the same thing with timers for Topfield PVRs. We may even be able to tell the Topfield to do it's second fetch sooner than 15 minutes.
- Fetch 1, send 1st half of EPG data and 1st half of timers (plus inform PVR to do next fetch in 3 minutes).
- Fetch 2, send 2nd half of EPG data and 2nd half of timers (plus inform PVR to do next fetch in 15 minutes).
- Repeat step 1 at next fetch.
- Repeat step 2 at next fetch, etc.
The potential complication is that we can't send new timers for shows whose guide data has not been sent yet.
The simple and reliable solution may be to send today, tomorrow and the next day in the 1st fetch, then the other 4 days in the 2nd fetch. This may be how we already split the amount of timers that we send to Topfields.
I did some testing today, and the problem does not seem to be related to the total amount of memory available to the PVR. Both the PVR's memory reporting and the Linux OS showed ample RAM available.
My guess would be that the PVR does the fetch directly to RAM with a fixed buffer allocated. Too much EPG data returned from the fetch overruns the buffer and reboots result. I have a TAP that implements the basic PIMP protocol, but it writes fetched data to disk first and it does not reboot.
From my understanding of the PIMP protocol, the PVR provides a date range and channel list for each EPG fetch. Too many requests within a certain period results in throttling that PVR for a period of time.
You would need to not only ignore the date range, but keep track of alternating calls to ensure that over 2 calls, you provide one whole set of EPG data. If you sent half the channels instead, the logic is similar.
The most pragmatic action may be to just notify Topfield users to restrict their channel lists. You could tell Topfield Korea too, but a resolution may take some time to materialise.
I have also noticed that the channel list is global to your user account. Users with multiple PVR models may not want to restrict certain channels for all of their PVR makes/models.
Quote from: DeltaMikeCharlie on March 13, 2016, 09:40:22 PM
The most pragmatic action may be to just notify Topfield users to restrict their channel lists. You could tell Topfield Korea too, but a resolution may take some time to materialise.
That is an option, however given their response to the MPEG4 playback navigation issue they will not fix the 7100HDPVRt Plus firmware. However, there is no harm in trying. If Dave and Delta Mike Charlie could collaborate in putting together an explanation of the problem and the potential solution I will send a bug report to Topfield Australia. As the Chief Moderator of the Topfield Australia Forum I do this from time to time, but these days I get no response, although they did fix one problem I reported.
Quote from: DeltaMikeCharlie on March 13, 2016, 09:40:22 PM
I have also noticed that the channel list is global to your user account. Users with multiple PVR models may not want to restrict certain channels for all of their PVR makes/models.
Yes, in retrospect I have my PVRs which are across two account, poorly located. The SKIPPA and T2, neither of which has this problem, are on different accounts. Being able to configure each device would be great, but it may confuse some people. Probably you would have a default that could be modified for each device (if needed).
Ian
Quote from: DeltaMikeCharlie on March 13, 2016, 09:40:22 PM
I have a TAP that implements the basic PIMP protocol, but it writes fetched data to disk first and it does not reboot.
If you have access to the TAP's source code can you change it to use a fixed amount of RAM and see if you can work out approximately how much (little) RAM the pimp process is allocated? I'd like to ask Topfield to increase the allocated RAM by 50% but need to know if that is feasible with the amount of free RAM available.
Quote from: DeltaMikeCharlie on March 13, 2016, 09:40:22 PM
My guess would be that the PVR does the fetch directly to RAM with a fixed buffer allocated. Too much EPG data returned from the fetch overruns the buffer and reboots result.
That's what I suspect too, now that you have verified that the PVR has plenty of free RAM available.
Another effect of the 'not enough memory allocated' issue is that even when there is enough memory to process the EPG without the PVR crashing and rebooting it can often fail to set any new reservations.
Quote from: DeltaMikeCharlie on March 13, 2016, 09:40:22 PM
The most pragmatic action may be to just notify Topfield users to restrict their channel lists. You could tell Topfield Korea too, but a resolution may take some time to materialise.
Requesting a solution (firmware update) from Topfield Korea is the plan. But as any firmware update always takes time to arrive notifying all customers with Topfield PVRs is the immediate plan.
Just to add some more to the discussion, since I disabled ABC2 I have had no issues. The information given above does help to explain the issue, I will check what channels I have enabled but both times I have had issues it has been because I go chasing the new channels TENHD and then 7Flix. I think the second time I pressed the red button when in the ICETV setting on the 2400 to refresh the EPG data and bang it started the rebooting loop. I was playing around trying to get stuff sorted, I am also guessing a full reset will cause issues as that will trigger a complete refresh and collection of lots of data to process. This has to happen from time when timers stop being set automatically, look forward to that day.
Now that I have it fully working and no reboot since my last post I don't want to touch the 2400 as its working exactly like I want it (with no issues)! I am not missing ABC2 as I don't watch it but it does leave a big hole in JustEPG.
Quote from: Dave at IceTV on March 15, 2016, 04:47:23 PM
If you have access to the TAP's source code can you change it to use a fixed amount of RAM and see if you can work out approximately how much (little) RAM the pimp process is allocated? I'd like to ask Topfield to increase the allocated RAM by 50% but need to know if that is feasible with the amount of free RAM available.
I do have access to my TAP's source code. Unfortunately, the TAP works by creating a file with the PIMP EPG request and then calling an external WGET executable that sends the file as a POST request to the PIMP server and then saves the response to another file. It would be a big change to redesign the TAP to receive directly to RAM.
Quote from: Dave at IceTV on March 15, 2016, 04:47:23 PM
Requesting a solution (firmware update) from Topfield Korea is the plan. But as any firmware update always takes time to arrive notifying all customers with Topfield PVRs is the immediate plan.
It's a good plan and Korea did recently fix a bug relating to the new MPEG4 channels, but only for relatively current models.
While they are at it, they should also fix the bug that sees the CPU utilisation reach 99.9% when ICE is enabled. It causes any TAPs running to respond slowly.
Quote from: DeltaMikeCharlie on March 16, 2016, 06:25:35 AM
Quote from: Dave at IceTV on March 15, 2016, 04:47:23 PM
Requesting a solution (firmware update) from Topfield Korea is the plan. But as any firmware update always takes time to arrive notifying all customers with Topfield PVRs is the immediate plan.
It's a good plan and Korea did recently fix a bug relating to the new MPEG4 channels, but only for relatively current models.
While they are at it, they should also fix the bug that sees the CPU utilisation reach 99.9% when ICE is enabled. It causes any TAPs running to respond slowly.
The problem I have when dealing with foreign PVR manufacturers, due to the language barrier when using technical terms, is that they tend to focus on one issue at a time. If I list multiple issues it becomes too confusing. Listing one urgent issue is more likely to get that issue fixed.
It is possible that the CPU utilisation issue may actually be the cause of the rebooting - and therefore get fixed at the same time.
There are other issues I'd like fixed, like daylight saving.
Quote from: vincent on March 15, 2016, 11:45:17 PM
I am also guessing a full reset will cause issues as that will trigger a complete refresh and collection of lots of data to process. This has to happen from time when timers stop being set automatically, look forward to that day.
I suspect that the old issue of a Topfield stopping updating the timers is related to the current lack of memory issue and therefore it may happen to get fixed at the same time.
Quote from: vincent on March 15, 2016, 11:45:17 PM
Now that I have it fully working and no reboot since my last post I don't want to touch the 2400 as its working exactly like I want it (with no issues)! I am not missing ABC2 as I don't watch it but it does leave a big hole in JustEPG.
I would disable 1 more channel that you don't need just to give the Topfield a bit more free space in case there's more guide data one week in the future.
That may also get your quantity of 'guide enabled' channels back to an even number allowing you configure JustEPG to look neater.
I can now reproduce this bug. I just set the region to "WA - Regional WA" as it seems to have the most channels with no duplicate LCNs that would also cause a reboot.
Also the issue only occurs when the EPG is completely blank and the Topfield has load the whole 7days EPG. This would be necessary after clearing and rescanning the channels, or after resetting the EPG from the IceTV menu, or after a factory reset. Things that need to be done twice a year at each daylight saving changeover for those living in states with daylight saving, and when new channels start broadcasting.
- As I am in Sydney only 27 of those LCNs match channels on my 2460.
- 6 of the extra 11 LCNs are extra choices for Channels that my 2460 does receive.
- The remaining 5 LCNs are in 3 extra channels that my 2460 does Not receive.
So next I started testing:
- First I disabled 1 of the 3 extra channels that had 1 LCN choice (WIN on 8 ) and the 2460 still rebooted.
- Next I disabled 1 more of the 3 extra channels that had 1 LCN choice ('GEM on WIN' on 80) and the 2460 stopped rebooting -but the EPG was blank.
- I then reset the EPG and let the Topfield reboot once more (which is normal after a reset) and the EPG loaded with no more rebooting.
Now that it had loaded the EPG and stopped rebooting I re-enabled 'GEM on WIN' on 80 then:
- Switched the Topfield to standby and then back on - no rebooting and EPG still okay.
- Knowing this would be because it already had 99% of the EPG loaded before I enabled 'GEM on WIN' and reset the EPG and strangely it did not reboot. It fetched and loaded the EPG as it should.
- So I reset it again and again it loaded the EPG correctly... then rebooted. But after it rebooted and loaded the EPG it did Not reboot again.
It seems for my 2460 using the WA Regional region that 37.5 channels is the point where it reboots (for me with no recording reservations).
- With 38 LCNs enabled it reboots.
- With 37 LCNs enabled it sometimes reboots.
- With 36 LCNs enabled it doesn't reboot.
Of course this could change if next week's guide has more data than this week's. Or if set a bunch a recordings.
Considering capitol city regions only have 27 channels you would think that Topfield PVRs in those regions should never have the problem - but some people in Sydney and Melbourne have reported that their Topfield PVRs has the rebooting problem. Maybe different Topfield models and different firmware versions allocate different amounts of memory. Obviously processing any recording reservations takes up memory as well so the more recordings the PVR has to set the less channels you can safely have enabled.
So with 36 LCNs enabled I set 10 series with 80 schedules for the next 5 days and waited for the PVR to do a fetch... and it ignored all the schedules. When I checked a couple of hours later it had set 2 schedules and was recording one of them. An hour later all 80 schedules were set.
Dave
As I was one of those in metropolitan area that had the problem, I advise that when the problem started I had:
- All ABC LCNs active (inducing duplicate 21) (total=5).
- All SBS LCNs (total=5).
- Most 7 Network LCN, including duplicates 70 and 71, but not the infotainment LCN which IceTV does not proide data (total=6).
- All 9 Network LCNs, including duplicate LCN 91 and LCN 98, but not eXtra (total=7).
- All 10 Network LCNs, including duplicate LCN 12, but not the two infotainment LCN which IceTV does not proide data (total=5).
- C31 community TV (total=1).
This makes a total of 29LCN.
Ian
I have the rebooting problem on a Toppy 2460, it seems to have started today, could have had a couple in the last couple of days but wife not certain
Did a factory reset, have updated firmware, and still rebooting.
With ICE TV enabled happens constantly, with ice TV not enabled it is stable.
Just disabled ch2 as per previous post and stable so far with ice tv enabled.
Region Brisbane
Quote from: Dave at IceTV on March 16, 2016, 01:12:18 PM
It is possible that the CPU utilisation issue may actually be the cause of the rebooting - and therefore get fixed at the same time.
The 99.9% CPU problem has been around for years, it has never caused a reboot to my knowledge, it just slows down TAP function. I think that they are just doing something silly with the sleep() function in their ICE thread.
Quote from: Dave at IceTV on March 16, 2016, 01:12:18 PM
There are other issues I'd like fixed, like daylight saving.
Daylight savings is a big fix.
To do DST properly, the firmware needs to know what "region" the user is operating in. This region is then used when decoding the DVD TOT to determine the current UTC offset, the next DST transition (expressed in UTC) as well as the next UTC offset.
http://www.freetv.com.au/media/Engineering/OP45_Application_of_Time_Related_Tables_in_Australian_DVB-T_Systems_Issue_3_September_2008.pdf
The firmware just knows the current UTC offset and can not look forward and persuadably will need a firmware patch if the DST rules ever change.
TAP writers have circumvented this with DSTConfig.tap that writes a DST.ini file. The TAP date/time functions can interrogate this file to determine the true DST situation.
Last night I turned ABC2 back on but turned off Channel 9 and 10 as I now tend to only watch the HD channels of 9 and 10. I always had my timers set to pick the HD channel so have not seen this cause an issue. Its been running all day with no issues. Now I know the problem on a full reset I will just start with a few extra channel disabled and ABC2 will be fine as I don't have many timers on those channels once back and stable I can just turn it back on and wait for the toppy to catchup.
Its not idea but knowing the problem its not hard to work around it unless we get a F/W update that fixes it correctly. Given I found this thread with google most users will find a working solution and given its ICE causing the memory overflow then then know where to look.
I really would like to know why this problem started on March 1.
I have not seen this issue in the past 4 years yet suddenly it appears with no changes by me to my account details.
BTW I have 23 LCNs active.
It's not hard to work around? Please explain how I can do that without disabling ABC2 (if that even works) which is the only channel my daughter watches.
If the root cause of the problem is the Toppy not coping with the size of the EPG data download, then the explanation of why it only just started is that the amount of data being downloaded increased with the addition of 10HD and 7flix and in regional areas Nine affiliates adding duplicate LCN for Nine, NineHD, which added to the duplicate for 9Go.
If you did a rescan early, there was a place-holder in the IceTV EPG, and EPG data was added slowly. Eventually it got to a critical mass, causing spontaneous reboots.
Delta Mike Charlie has pointed out that the reason why ABC 2 appears to be the culprit is that it has a very large number of very short programs, hence a big hunk of EPG data to be downloaded. Disabling ABC would have the same impact as disabling two or three other LCNs.
It looks like my 5300 may be having problems (it has not done an EPG fetch for a while), hopefully it is not in a reboot loop.
Ian
With ABC2 re-enabled and the STD versions of 9 and 10 disabled I was not getting reboots but the toppy locked up, it would not respond to any inputs. I have now disabled ABC2 again and its back working.
Hopefully top field will do another new f/W to fix this issue at some point.
Shouldn't this topic be moved to the Topfield area?
Quote from: prl on March 18, 2016, 09:54:54 AM
Shouldn't this topic be moved to the Topfield area?
I made that suggestion in a PM to Dan or Dave some time back. At the time they were very busy dealing with the introduction on 10HD, 7flix and the new service upheaval for Nine Network regional affiliates.
Ian
I spoke to Topfield Australia support this morning and, after a meeting they had yesterday, they have referred the problem to the engineers in Korea.
Ian
Hi there, my Topfield has once again started reloading continually. I have disabled Ice to stop this but am wondering if there is new information out there?
Cheers
No news on this as far as I am aware. I have been trying to get in contact with Toppro/Topfield Australia for the last week about this issue and the 'disabled' Topfield Australia Forum. They are not responding to emails; have been in phone wait for best part of an hour (assuming I am not cut off or asked to leave a message). Leaving a message is useless as they never call back. I am getting more than a little bit peeved.
Best wises
Ian
Thanks Ian. Appreciate the reply. I guess it's a wait and see then.
My TRF 2400 in the loungeroom reboots itself every Wednesday.
I assume this is when my machine does its weekly update.
So my Wednesday ritual is to remove ABC2 from the IceTV guide download and let the machine reboot.
Once it has processed the EPG data it seems to settle down.
I then add ABC2 back to the IceTV guide and 'force' a reload of JustEPG.
All good...until next Wednesday.
I have removed the newtork 9 and 10 SD channels from the IceTV download and from JustEPG (leaving the HD channels on the guide).
Maybe this will be enough for the download not to cause reboots.
I'll let you know next Wednesday.
Hi Dave,
It sounds like Wednesday's guide contains more data than the other days. As you've disabled the SD channels from network 9 and 10 you may as well disable SBS's SD channel as well.
Hi Dave,
I had disabled SBS SD a while back.
There used to be a minor difference between the HD and SD channel during the A-League (I think).
The A-League was on SD and some other non-sport show was on HD.
Not sure if that is the case anymore, so I disabled SD.
What does the Toppy do regarding guide data?
Does it first fetch 5 days of guide data once-only (assuming you don't wipe the EPG data with a reset), then re-check daily?
Here is hoping the disabled 9 & 10 SDa channels fixes my issue.
Quote from: DaveD on May 08, 2016, 03:01:33 PM
I had disabled SBS SD a while back.
There used to be a minor difference between the HD and SD channel during the A-League (I think).
The A-League was on SD and some other non-sport show was on HD.
Not sure if that is the case anymore, so I disabled SD.
I remember that, from last year. I was surprised that SBS decided to slightly change their program lineup for an international soccer series and not stick to simulcasting SBS and SBS HD. They may do it again for the World Cup (if they have the telecast rights next time it's on).
Quote from: DaveD on May 08, 2016, 03:01:33 PM
What does the Toppy do regarding guide data?
Does it first fetch 5 days of guide data once-only (assuming you don't wipe the EPG data with a reset), then re-check daily?
If the toppy has no guide data (after a EPG reset or factory reset or clearing the channels) the toppy will fetch the full 7 days EPG for all channels at once. I'm sure after that it would only be fetching updates to the existing 7 days and data for the rolling 7th day.
Some people disable a few channels, let the toppy load the guide and then re-enable those disabled channels. The problem with that is that lately each Wednesday seems to have enough extra guide data to trip up the toppy again. For ongoing reliability you are better off disabling 2 or 3 channels and leaving them disabled.
Quote from: DaveD on May 08, 2016, 03:01:33 PM
Here is hoping the disabled 9 & 10 SDa channels fixes my issue.
If 9 and 10 aren't enough you could disable 1 more channel. One that you don't watch. Maybe the Food Network or NITV or the Community Channel if you get a community channel.
What you need to do is to reduce the amount of data being downloaded by IceTV. ABC2 has a lot of data because there are many very short programs. I have data sent for ABC2; I have disabled data for both one of the SD Nine Melbourne LCNs (LCN 9 and 91), SBS 1 (LCN 3 - currently the content is duplicated on SBS HD). I have also disable one of the duplicate LCNs for One (LCN 1 disabled). You could also disable the duplicates for the main Seven transmission (it is on LCN 7, 70 and 71 in Melbourne). You could also disable the duplicate 9GEM LCN if there is one in your location.
Hope this helps.
Ian
PS You have to remove LCNs data download in your IceTV account, to completely remove it the change to "remove" in the "Send to TV Recorder as LCN" and you can also limit to one of duplicate LCN in that column.
Hi Ian,
Done all that I think (see jpg) below.
I see that Channel 7 have created LCN=30 / Seven HD to show the AFL (Vic and SA at the moment).
I can't see it as an option on IceTV yet.
So that will be another channel where I will disable LCN 71 Seven SD and use 70 Seven HD once IceTV add it to the EPguide.
LCN 30 is SBS HD
Oops typo..I meant LCN=70
Quote from: DaveD on May 11, 2016, 02:24:35 PM
Oops typo..I meant LCN=70
Actually, it depends on which city you are in.
For Sydney, Brisbane and Perth 7HD is currently showing 7Mate programming. For Melbourne and Adelaide 7HD is showing 7 programming. Like the other new HD channels 7HD is an MPEG4 channel, and in all areas where this has become active 7Mate has gone back to being shown in SD.
No reboots now for 2 Wednesdays