Currently IceTV are imo treating 7MC like a dumb PVR (one with no intelligent features, 7MC is more like a TiVo than a Toppy etc) and as a result Ice Interactive doesn't work nearly as well as it should!
I realise this is a big ask but can you guy's please rewrite Ice Interactive so it supports the following Win7 Media Center Features properly:
*uses the built in series functions (merely maintains the list of shows/series to record - creating individual shows is a poor hack!)
*supports hard padding and other 7MC advanced options (how many recordings to keep, when to delete, tighter recording parameters etc)
*supports extra win7 meta-data with show thumbnails
*supports channel logo's
I currently use the excellent IceTV EPG Data via BigScreenEPG + BSE by Remote instead as this gives me everything I believe ICE TV should - the only thing this combo doesn't give me is the ability to use the excellent ICE TV iPhone app and have my series/show record list backed up to my ICE TV account.
Just had a look at the apps you mentioned and they look great. It's a shame though to pay for BSE, and eventually BSE by remote when it's out of beta and the IceTV EPG data. It'd be great if there was one solution that did all of these things.
I think BSE was $20 for 2 years which is chicken feed. :)
Btw, I'd rather use Ice Interactive but atm it's not worth using!
Just to expand a bit more on my logic for a couple of points:
Quote from: dJOS on September 21, 2010, 04:13:33 PM
*uses the built in series functions (merely maintains the list of shows/series to record - creating individual shows is a poor hack!)
7MC does not need shows that are part of Series to be individually created and then deleted when they move like a typical Toppy/Beyonwiz PVR, 7MC just needs to be told what series to record and then supplied the EPG data and if the show should be moved around it will automatically compensate for that if supplied up-to-date EPG data.
Quote from: dJOS on September 21, 2010, 04:13:33 PM
*supports hard padding and other 7MC advanced options (how many recordings to keep, when to delete, tighter recording parameters etc)
What with most MC enthusiasts these days having at least 4 tuners, Hard padding is imo a mandatory feature, this allows you to record and entire show using 1 tuner with guaranteed padding and if there should happen to be a show immediately following on the same channel it will use a 2nd tuner to record that show also with hard padding.
The up shot of this is that you can watch the 2 shows whenever you like and both are 100% complete - if you use soft-padding like Ice Interactive currently does (iirc), you have to watch the start of the second show to get the ending of the 1st show and pray that someone in your household doesn't watch and delete the 2nd show before you've watched the 1st show!
Quote from: dJOS on September 21, 2010, 04:13:33 PM
The up shot of this is that you cant what the 2 shows whenever you like and both are 100% complete - if you use soft-padding like Ice Interactive currently does (iirc), you have to watch the start of the second show to get the ending of the 1st show and pray that someone in your household doesn't watch and delete the 2nd show before you've watched the 1s show!
I've been setting hard padding manually once the back to back recordings have been set through IceTV Interactive which is double handling the recordings. If I set them directly in media centre then I don't have them backed up on IceTV and can't really use the iPhone app. If I set them through IceTV I have to manually set hard padding. I've found the hard padding essential as when two shows are recorded back to back the is often a delay between the end of one and start of the second. I've missed some vital final lines of tv shows!
The IceTV Interactive software has had a padding section under the recordings tab for a while now but it remains blocked out so hopefully this is something that is being worked on for the next release. At least I won't have to double handle every back to back recording.
I also remember reading somewhere that channel logos were on the agenda for a future release too.......
What are the show thumbnails that you mentioned dJOS?
Quote from: tvmandan on September 21, 2010, 10:24:25 PM
I've been setting hard padding manually once the back to back recordings have been set through IceTV Interactive which is double handling the recordings. If I set them directly in media centre then I don't have them backed up on IceTV and can't really use the iPhone app. If I set them through IceTV I have to manually set hard padding. I've found the hard padding essential as when two shows are recorded back to back the is often a delay between the end of one and start of the second. I've missed some vital final lines of tv shows!
The IceTV Interactive software has had a padding section under the recordings tab for a while now but it remains blocked out so hopefully this is something that is being worked on for the next release. At least I won't have to double handle every back to back recording.
I also remember reading somewhere that channel logos were on the agenda for a future release too.......
If 7MC was supported properly you wouldn't have to do that kind of thing!
Quote from: tvmandan on September 21, 2010, 10:24:25 PMWhat are the show thumbnails that you mentioned dJOS?
This is what I mean (btw, note how awesome channel logos are compared to just boring numbers!):
(http://users.adam.com.au/djorlc/Public/Capture1.PNG)
and here is the extra Meta-data you get including plots etc (you get the Ice Description + the extra info):
(http://users.adam.com.au/djorlc/Public/Capture2.PNG)
You're right the show thumbs would be great and the channel logos look excellent and make it much easier to work out which channel you're looking at.
How do you get the extra meta-data? I'm using Yammm to get meta-data for my movies collection in the native movies section of 7MC and I notice that whenever I click on a movie it fills out details like full plot etc supplied by AMG and appears to be getting this info off the internet from some windows 7 source not from Yammm. Which program gets extra meta-data for tv shows in the tv guide?
Cheers, Dan
Quote from: tvmandan on September 21, 2010, 11:40:50 PM
How do you get the extra meta-data? I'm using Yammm to get meta-data for my movies collection in the native movies section of 7MC and I notice that whenever I click on a movie it fills out details like full plot etc supplied by AMG and appears to be getting this info off the internet from some windows 7 source not from Yammm. Which program gets extra meta-data for tv shows in the tv guide?
Cheers, Dan
There is a US Region Flag that can be enabled in 7MC and it gets the extra data and show/movie thumbnails via Microsoft's own servers (AMG is the original source tho).
Do you know how to enable this flag so that I get thumbnails for tv shows?
my memory is a bit faulty but I think you change your windows region to the US.
I hope someone at ICE TV is taking notes here, if they are then those missing links will come together very nicely. Thanks for starting this post and I hope lots of people chime in and agree your suggestions are needed in the next release!
Fingers crossed. :-)
Quote from: webgeorge on September 22, 2010, 07:13:39 PM
I hope someone at ICE TV is taking notes here, if they are then those missing links will come together very nicely. Thanks for starting this post and I hope lots of people chime in and agree your suggestions are needed in the next release!
Fingers crossed. :-)
No Worries, I hope they take notice too as I really like Ice TV's Guide service and have been a customer for many years (originally owned a Toppy 5k with IceBox1). 8)
Quote from: tvmandan on September 22, 2010, 03:11:07 PM
Do you know how to enable this flag so that I get thumbnails for tv shows?
I haven't found a way to get TV show Thumbnails yet but I found a programme to put in channel logos.
Its called my channel logos. Download from here http://mychannellogos.com/dl.aspx
there is a 64 and 32 bit version.
When you run it for the first time it will see your settings as Australia and download the logos for Australia (well most of them).
Then on second use you will get the settings box. if no logos have been assigned then hit auto populate and it should assign them.
You will have to close Media Center if it is open then reopen to see the logos.
If you need more help just ask.
Kevin
Quote from: zoszos68 on September 23, 2010, 01:08:28 AM
Quote from: tvmandan on September 22, 2010, 03:11:07 PM
Do you know how to enable this flag so that I get thumbnails for tv shows?
Its called my channel logos. Download from here http://mychannellogos.com/dl.aspx
THis is what I use and it is awesome.
I stopped using BSE because remote recording wasnt available at the time, and I needed interactive to do that. You are correct that interactive is a very primitive program and could be much more useful.
I do all my series records thru W7MC and dont bother with interactive due to the poor padding and other issues you guys are listing.
I reckon I will checkout BSE again, and unless interactive improves will be reviewing my ice subscription
Looks interesting but the main feature I want is hard padding. It did not seem to do that funtion. I would buy it just for that. Everythign I record has 10 minutes or more hard padding as anything less and windows 7 will ignore and cut the program even if you have 3 spare tuners. The microsoft option of stop 10 minuites when possible is stupid, if it is on the same channel it does not understand to use the spare tuners. The padding on most Windows 7 computers seems to only kick in at 10 min or more, setting less seems to fail also.
The padding options in ICETV have been sitting there greyed out for a long time now ;-)
BSE does not give you hard padding, Media center does however BSE by Remote allows you to override the default "if possible" padding for "always record" xx mins over (aka hard padding).
Any chance of some insight by ICE staff?
I just set ICE TV interactive up on my PC and I am really disappointed at how basic it is. NONE of the cool WMC recording functions are avaliable. I am very happy that I have not paid for this service.
Quote from: TagUrToast on September 28, 2010, 07:17:14 PM
I just set ICE TV interactive up on my PC and I am really disappointed at how basic it is. NONE of the cool WMC recording functions are avaliable. I am very happy that I have not paid for this service.
imo the Ice Guide Data is worth the money but it does suck that for Ice Interactive 7MC is stuffed into the "dumb PVR" box with all the STB PVR's. :(
Quote from: dJOS on September 28, 2010, 07:34:24 PM
Quote from: TagUrToast on September 28, 2010, 07:17:14 PM
I just set ICE TV interactive up on my PC and I am really disappointed at how basic it is. NONE of the cool WMC recording functions are avaliable. I am very happy that I have not paid for this service.
imo the Ice Guide Data is worth the money but it does suck that for Ice Interactive 7MC is stuffed into the "dumb PVR" box with all the STB PVR's. :(
I really dont see why
Whenever I see or hear of a show that I think I might like I just set it to series record with HD priority. Im never watching Live TV so Until they fix the recording issues, I wont be buying a permanent subscription
Quote from: TagUrToast on October 05, 2010, 03:38:13 PM
I really dont see why
Whenever I see or hear of a show that I think I might like I just set it to series record with HD priority. Im never watching Live TV so Until they fix the recording issues, I wont be buying a permanent subscription
the Ice guide data is worth the money as it allows for very accurate series recording - the OTA guide data from the stations is of very poor quality most of the time. (NEIN is the worst offender)
I've been an MCE and IceTV user for a number of years and in general the functionality from the combo is great. Except.... Soft padding. I've missed the end of a number of shows over the years (and suffered the wrath of my wife).
I can live without eye candy features (although these are nice), but functional features should be enhanced where possible as a priority. Hard padding is one of those features.
The good news is that we are all Media Center focused right now and there's lots of new developments around Media Center going on. Event accurate recordings is one of them. :)
Too late for me, we replaced our Media Center with a pair of TiVo's - SWMBO got sick of me tinkering. :'(
Our current developments address most the issues in this thread, even the pretty pictures that people like seeing... and content... much more content.
Quote from: Luke at IceTV on December 14, 2011, 04:19:56 PM
Our current developments address most the issues in this thread, even the pretty pictures that people like seeing... and content... much more content.
Are you supporting series record properly or still creating individual programs each time a series event happens? (cause that is just daft!)
Give me a compelling reason why you believe 7MC can do a better job at scheduling a series or keyword search?
Quote from: Luke at IceTV on December 14, 2011, 05:33:10 PM
Give me a compelling reason why you believe 7MC can do a better job at scheduling a series or keyword search?
My Experience was that the ICE TV method was unreliable under VistaMC and 7MC - I frequently had to purge caches etc and eventually gave up (I had over 40 Series) - like I said in my original posts, treating MC like a "normal dumb PVR" is ignoring its built in smarts and an inherently dumb decision! ::)
You would likely also reduce traffic loads on your own servers by simply maintaining the series record list rather than creating one off shows every time - MC is smart, treating it like it's dumb is just counter intuitive! MC has a lot of power ICE are having to duplicate which is just a waste of time imo.
Quote from: dJOS on December 14, 2011, 05:44:19 PM
Quote from: Luke at IceTV on December 14, 2011, 05:33:10 PM
Give me a compelling reason why you believe 7MC can do a better job at scheduling a series or keyword search?
My Experience was that the ICE TV method was unreliable under VistaMC and 7MC - I frequently had to purge caches etc and eventually gave up (I had over 40 Series) - like I said in my original posts, treating MC like a "normal dumb PVR" is ignoring its built in smarts and an inherently dumb decision! ::)
You would likely also reduce traffic loads on your own servers by simply maintaining the series record list rather than creating one off shows every time - MC is smart, treating it like it's dumb is just counter intuitive! MC has a lot of power ICE are having to duplicate which is just a waste of time imo.
So it's really a question of reliability...? which we are actively addressing and looking forward to the results.
With the current methodology of sending simple recording instructions to the box we can actually enhance the way series and keyword recordings are managed and offer it to a much larger PVR audience than just Media Center. Also note that if all your recordings are managed by Ice, and your Media Center box blows up it's a single click to 'resend all recordings' to a replacement box.
That said, we're not in the business of ignoring our customers so if the demand is there to synchronise series recordings between Media Center and Ice then so be it... it can be done. I will discuss with the team and see if/when we can fit it into our schedule.
Quote from: Luke at IceTV on December 14, 2011, 06:56:29 PM
With the current methodology of sending simple recording instructions to the box we can actually enhance the way series and keyword recordings are managed and offer it to a much larger PVR audience than just Media Center. Also note that if all your recordings are managed by Ice, and your Media Center box blows up it's a single click to 'resend all recordings' to a replacement box.
Your current methodology is well suited to "normal" PVR's, however all the features you have can be done by MC out of the box, I'm suggesting you "actively manage" those features in 7MC rather than duplicate them by implementing silly hacks like creating & deleting single shows that are part of a series.
Instead use the ICE Integration software as a management interface that takes advantage of all the built in MC features rather than trying to make MC just another dumb PVR! That way MC ICE TV subscribers can take advantage of all the great ICE Web/iPhone/etc features and know that they will work every time because they are managing existing features instead of implementing unnecessary hacks/work arounds!
Quote from: dJOS on December 15, 2011, 12:09:21 PM
Quote from: Luke at IceTV on December 14, 2011, 06:56:29 PM
With the current methodology of sending simple recording instructions to the box we can actually enhance the way series and keyword recordings are managed and offer it to a much larger PVR audience than just Media Center. Also note that if all your recordings are managed by Ice, and your Media Center box blows up it's a single click to 'resend all recordings' to a replacement box.
Your current methodology is well suited to "normal" PVR's, however all the features you have can be done by MC out of the box, I'm suggesting you "actively manage" those features in 7MC rather than duplicate them by implementing silly hacks like creating & deleting single shows that are part of a series.
Instead use the ICE Integration software as a management interface that takes advantage of all the built in MC features rather than trying to make MC just another dumb PVR! That way MC ICE TV subscribers can take advantage of all the great ICE Web/iPhone/etc features and know that they will work every time because they are managing existing features instead of implementing unnecessary hacks/work arounds!
The hacks/workaround as you put it are a consequence of us having to reverse engineer Media Center as the published SDK is quite limited and thus we have had to hook in at a lower level, which is not published information, nor is Microsoft willing to provide any technical input, resources or documentation on how to achieve this. These problems exist regardless of whether we create a one-time recording or a series recording. Programmatically they are similar, and to be honest, creating the recording itself is not a difficult task.
So in other words, our time is better spent enhancing the way in which recordings are managed "in the cloud" and ensuring that Media Center does the correct thing with the recording instructions. The type of recording is actually irrelevant, the ability to reliably communicate, instruct, and resolve collisions for the box is the key to it's success.
Quote from: Luke at IceTV on December 15, 2011, 12:42:21 PM
The hacks/workaround as you put it are a consequence of us having to reverse engineer Media Center as the published SDK is quite limited and thus we have had to hook in at a lower level, which is not published information, nor is Microsoft willing to provide any technical input, resources or documentation on how to achieve this. These problems exist regardless of whether we create a one-time recording or a series recording. Programmatically they are similar, and to be honest, creating the recording itself is not a difficult task.
Im aware of this however others have managed it eg WebGuide for VistaMC and BigScreen Remote for 7MC
Quote from: Luke at IceTV on December 15, 2011, 12:42:21 PMSo in other words, our time is better spent enhancing the way in which recordings are managed "in the cloud" and ensuring that Media Center does the correct thing with the recording instructions. The type of recording is actually irrelevant, the ability to reliably communicate, instruct, and resolve collisions for the box is the key to it's success.
Im not saying dont keep things in the cloud, what im saying is the approach to MC is wrong and it shouldn't be treated as a dumb PVR (because it isnt - reminds me of Blackberry taking over MS Exchange instead of using Active Sync and look how well that's going for them).
Quote from: dJOS on December 15, 2011, 12:58:12 PM
Quote from: Luke at IceTV on December 15, 2011, 12:42:21 PM
The hacks/workaround as you put it are a consequence of us having to reverse engineer Media Center as the published SDK is quite limited and thus we have had to hook in at a lower level, which is not published information, nor is Microsoft willing to provide any technical input, resources or documentation on how to achieve this. These problems exist regardless of whether we create a one-time recording or a series recording. Programmatically they are similar, and to be honest, creating the recording itself is not a difficult task.
Im aware of this however others have managed it eg WebGuide for VistaMC and BigScreen Remote for 7MC
Quote from: Luke at IceTV on December 15, 2011, 12:42:21 PMSo in other words, our time is better spent enhancing the way in which recordings are managed "in the cloud" and ensuring that Media Center does the correct thing with the recording instructions. The type of recording is actually irrelevant, the ability to reliably communicate, instruct, and resolve collisions for the box is the key to it's success.
Im not saying dont keep things in the cloud, what im saying is the approach to MC is wrong and it shouldn't be treated as a dumb PVR (because it isnt - reminds me of Blackberry taking over MS Exchange instead of using Active Sync and look how well that's going for them).
I note that the guy who wrote Webguide wrote the XP/Vista versions for IceTV Interactive for us ;)
BigScreen By Remote is a nice product but only works with Media Center and requires you to forward ports on your router.
Like I said, creating series recordings in Media Center isn't the issue... there are a few technical challenges on the server side to handle Media Center differently, no big deal... but whether or not our investment into this feature will bring a return ... that's the issue. There are better features that we can develop that give both the customer and IceTV more value .. like spreading recordings across multiple devices to avoid conflicts, streaming your recordings to your smartphone, offering more content, etc.
I can't comment on Blackberry.. except that I think even Samsung Bada is doing better .. and that's saying something.
Quote from: Luke at IceTV on December 16, 2011, 06:39:29 PM
Like I said, creating series recordings in Media Center isn't the issue... there are a few technical challenges on the server side to handle Media Center differently, no big deal... but whether or not our investment into this feature will bring a return ... that's the issue. There are better features that we can develop that give both the customer and IceTV more value .. like spreading recordings across multiple devices to avoid conflicts, streaming your recordings to your smartphone, offering more content, etc.
I think the thing to take away from this conversation is that how you support a platform like MC is just as important as actually supporting it. I doubt most MC customers are typical "PVR" Customers and a high percentage will be Home brewed systems (mine certainly was and have a look over at the Aus MC forums for thousands of others), so to make ICE TV worth the money the way it operates has to take advantage of the already excellent feature set properly to win customers. (imo)
FWIW, I'm currently a Customer Delivery Manager in the ICT space and have spent many years in Business Analyst & Service Management roles. 8)
Media center master (free) will update your movie pictures, and do all sorts of sweet goodness.
it will even automatically download new episodes of your favourite shows for you and place them in the right directory.
Plays super well with uTorrent and Media Browser. I'd recommend paying for the MCM premium and MB (about $30 bucks all up), and live your life sweeter!
I know this is an old thread but has ICE changed its mind on series recording or is there a way around it? My problem is I have a windows home server and it can archive an individual show or a series. With ICE interactive not setting as a series I have to manually edit it in the guide to a series or mark every single show to archive.
Quote from: Teejai on July 25, 2012, 11:17:11 AM
My problem is I have a windows home server and it can archive an individual show or a series. With ICE interactive not setting as a series I have to manually edit it in the guide to a series or mark every single show to archive.
I have a WHS and 2 Media Centers and both auto archive programmes recorded after being setup using IceTV to WHS without any issues - series show up in the programme listing and play fine via my XBOX 360 extender. I don't have to do anything manually for this to happen
Can you clarify what it is you are trying to achieve and what is not working for you
The issue is if I set a series record from the IceTV app it sets it in media center as an individual recording and not a series.
I don't archive everything to my WHS only individual shows or an entire series. Let's say I set masterchef to series record. Under the ice way I have to mark every show for achieving instead of simply marking the series to archive.
Quote from: Teejai on July 27, 2012, 02:23:26 PM
The issue is if I set a series record from the IceTV app it sets it in media center as an individual recording and not a series.
Ok - thanks for clarifying your issue
Something is not working correctly as I use IceTV to setup series recording on two different Media Centers (and on a third Beyonwiz) - and I sucessfully record series all the time (I'd die if I had to schedule individual episodes)
I dont know what to suggest - maybe reinstalling IceTV or first trying resending your recordings from IceTV - but I can assure you series recordings in Media Center via IceTV definitely work
I have each Media Center setup to automatically transfer all recordings to my WHS and we can then stream everything off that to XBOX's as media extenders