In an battle of the user interfaces, YourTV http://www.yourtv.com.au/ wins hands down - this is a much more intuitive and cleaner interface, reminiscent of the regular paper based TV Guide, and not dissimilar to the EPG guide on PVRs.
Sure there are things IceTV need to fix around recordings, but the interactive TV Guide desperately needs to be revamped.
While I must, reluctantly, agree that the layout isn't great, perhaps now isn't the best time for Ice to mimic something in a way that could be deemed copyright breach; let's get the current court case out of the way before trying that one eh?
Besides, I think functionality is of greater importantance myself - the layout isn't great but it is usable whereas there are some issues of functionality in desperate need of work. (I could be considered biased though, since I write web applications for a living.)
We've opted for a list-style view because it works better with all the interactive features: searching, managing series recordings and favourites, My Upcoming Shows etc. However, we recognise that a grid view for the main TV guide might be something worth doing for the TV guide page only.
We're definitely going to improve some of the other Interactive web page features in early 2009.
I can't say if or when we'd implement a grid view, but thanks for the feedback. We are listening.
An article in the Sydney Morning Herald compared all the various online Australian TV guides: http://www.smh.com.au/news/digital-life/home-entertainment/reviews/compare-digital-tv-guides/2008/12/23/1229998532257.html?page=2
Our Interactive site did quite well.
Quote from: halon on January 03, 2009, 10:49:04 AM
In an battle of the user interfaces, YourTV http://www.yourtv.com.au/ wins hands down - this is a much more intuitive and cleaner interface, reminiscent of the regular paper based TV Guide, and not dissimilar to the EPG guide on PVRs.
Sure there are things IceTV need to fix around recordings, but the interactive TV Guide desperately needs to be revamped.
I'd like to strongly disagree with a grid like EPG layout. I find this type of layout difficult to read. In looking at an EPG, I like to see what's on first and foremost. The time the programs of interest are sceening is of secondary importance. After all, I have a PVR to record the shows I want to see, so I don't really need to know acurately which overlap.
To my mind, Peter Gillespie's Just EPG is by far the best EPG layout I've come across. It closely mimics a printed TV Guide layout and because of that, it's easy to follow. I don't use a printed guide anymore - Just EPG completely replaces it and it also of course sets the timers, including the resolution/management and warning of timer clashes.
Here's a screen shot of of Just EPG.
(http://home.iprimus.com.au/pgdownload/images/screenshot.jpg)
More screen shots and info on JE can be found here:
http://www.beyonwiz.com.au/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=2093#2093
I find the current Web and Widget layout pretty satisfactory and certainly would not want a move towards a grid style layout :).
JPP: That's interesting. The aqua text = what's playing now, the yellow outline = what's selected and the blue backgrounded items are...?
Marc- The Dark Blue items are the programs with timers.
I concur with JPP... JustEPG is by far hands down the best EPG out there. ;)
Quote from: trans on January 06, 2009, 05:35:48 AM
Marc- The Dark Blue items are the programs with timers.
I concur with JPP... JustEPG is by far hands down the best EPG out there. ;)
What's more, you can freely copy the design. Just let Peter know and I'm sure he'll be quite happy to help out if needed as well. Just wish the BeyonWiz people would release some API's so that he can port it to the Wiz 8). The source for the JE code can be found by simply downloading the TAP listed in this post:
http://www.topfield-australia.com.au/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=11869&start=0
Naturaly, the timer code is irrelevant, but the rest of it should be pretty universal.
Just coming back to the current Widget and Web EPG formats, I prefer the Widget over the Web format. The Web format is a bit of a cross between the time line and guide line format, whereas the Widget is a linear/vertical format of the JustEPG style - programs listed/sorted by channel in the first instance and time slots being of secondary importance.
With ICETV being available on a number of platforms, there are more constraints of course than just having to consider PC/TV display devices. Personally, I would prefer a dual presentation format. A choice of JE or Widget style for PCs and Widget style for mobiles - not that I have seen a mobile format so maybe that's already adequately covered.
Quote from: Marc-IceTV on January 06, 2009, 12:48:33 AMJPP: That's interesting. The aqua text = what's playing now, the yellow outline = what's selected and the blue backgrounded items are...?
One aspect of JustEPG that's hard to convey visually is scrolling around. The Scroll mode is switched by pressing the OK button in the middle of the arrow buttons. One mode leaves the screen as is and just moves around it. The other scrolls the displayed text to the next time slot (or if you hit left/right) to the next day.
I find it works very intuitively.
Peter Gillespie
Sounds very similar to the IceTV Widget, except there's 3 columns (which is better for TV) rather than 1.
Widget tip: you can use some keyboard shortcuts on the Mac widget...
Up arrow = minus 1 hour
Down arrow = plus 1 hour
n = Go to today and now
Marc,
I wasn't aware of that. Thanks for the tip.
Would it be possible to have the hours incrementing from the current time?
At the moment if I press the up arrow, 2am is displayed.
If I press the down arrow, 4am is displayed.
Quote from: Marc-IceTV on January 06, 2009, 03:08:57 PMWidget tip: you can use some keyboard shortcuts on the Mac widget...
Marc,
You want a Widget Tip?
Write a gadget for Vista & Update the API Documentation
As I stated in the thread here (http://www.icetv.com.au/iceforum/index.php?topic=898.0) that your December 6th 2007 Newsletter delivered by email said 'Windows Vista Gadget Coming Soon'.
You all know that I have contacted numerous people who have in turn contacted you back in August/September 2008 and they are still waiting.
And to expand on the same subject even further, the reason I raise this now is that I have been asked if I know of anyone who can develop a 'Windows Sideshow' application and 'bing' IceTV would be a great 'Sideshow' application running on a Windows Mobile Platform via Bluetooth. Similar to your iPhone app except that it would support the Windows Mobile platform.
The ball is in your court and you can decide to play or not play! You have our details.
Stephen
JustEPG looks great!!!!
I hope BW users can get that soon
Quote from: Trial_Master on January 22, 2009, 04:55:22 PM
JustEPG looks great!!!!
I hope BW users can get that soon
The Beyonwiz firmware simply isn't structured in a way that allows the easy addition of addons in the same way as the Topfield SD PVRS are designed for TAPs.
Quote from: prl on January 22, 2009, 05:00:52 PM
The Beyonwiz firmware simply isn't structured in a way that allows the easy addition of addons in the same way as the Topfield SD PVRS are designed for TAPs.
:( Let's hope they redesign the existing guide to have a format similar then, gee it's easy to read. I'm jealous Topfield users.
Quote from: Trial_Master on January 22, 2009, 05:03:56 PM
Quote from: prl on January 22, 2009, 05:00:52 PM
The Beyonwiz firmware simply isn't structured in a way that allows the easy addition of addons in the same way as the Topfield SD PVRS are designed for TAPs.
:( Let's hope they redesign the existing guide to have a format similar then, gee it's easy to read. I'm jealous Topfield users.
As far as I know, the Topfield HD PVRs (7000 & 7100) are the same as the Beyonwiz PVRs in this respect. TAPs (or similar) are only a feature of the Topfield SD models.
A recent email from one of the Topfield forum regulars indicates that even so, hacking is more advanced on Beyonwizes than it is on the Topfield HD recorders.
Most of the known information about Beyonwiz internals (hardware & firmware) is on the OpenWiz (http://www.openwiz.org/wiki/Main_Page) Web site, and user-contributed software for the Beyonwiz (both firmware hacks and PC/Mac tools) is on the BeyonwizSoftware (http://www.beyonwizsoftware.net/) site. Just because it's hard doesn't mean people aren't trying to do it :) but most of the successes so far are fairly minor, and there are no hacks to the GUI (apart from replacing the menu screen background).
I'll check those URL's out. Thanks for the background info Peter.
Quote from: Trial_Master on January 22, 2009, 05:17:24 PM
I'll check those URL's out. Thanks for the background info Peter.
No problem. I hope you join the ranks of the Beyonwiz hackers :)
The basic break-and-enter (and rebuild) tools are in BWFWTools (http://www.beyonwizsoftware.net/software-b28/bwfwtools/0/) (which includes a compiled PC version of efry's Wiz Firmware Tools (http://www.beyonwizsoftware.net/software-b28/wiz-firmware-tools/0/)). On other platforms you need to download and install Wiz Firmware Tools as well as BWFWTools. BWFWTools needs a Perl installation to work. Check out the README.txt file.
Shall do. Can you f*%k your BW with any of these hacks?
Quote from: Trial_Master on January 22, 2009, 05:28:43 PM
Shall do. Can you f*%k your BW with any of these hacks?
Absolutely and completely. There are copious warnings in the documentation.
There have been a few instances of Beyonwiz users bricking their BWs when they installed hacked firmware, and in at least one instance that was due to a (now fixed) bug in BWFWTools. Unfortunately, the sad tales are in the members-only beta testers forum.
There has also been one case I know of where a hack changed the behaviour of the Beyonwiz in an unintended and undesirable way - user initiated HDD checking became impossible.
Before you hack, you should read NOTICE - How to recover from FW update failure (http://www.beyonwiz.com.au/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=1298) on the Beyonwiz forum, and perhaps try it to make sure it works for you. But even so, it's not known for sure whether that can recover from all possible hacks. As far as I know, no one has hacked a Beyonwiz into a completely unrecoverable state, but I'm fairly confident that it's possible to do so.
There's an area on the Beyonwiz forum for Software Developers (http://www.beyonwiz.com.au/phpbb2/viewforum.php?f=21). Both in-firmware hacks and PC/Mac/etc programs are discussed. Many of the hackers are beta testers, but beta testers don't get any extra information from Beyonwiz that helps with hacking. They're aware that it's happening, because some bug reports to Beyonwiz in the beta area openly contain information that can only be got by hacking the firmware.
Okay sounds like I better read up before jumping in ;)
Thanks again you've been most helpful.
yourTV's EPG is powered by HWW (www.hww.com.au) who are owned by Nine. Spot the obvious? It's no wonder IceTV and Nine are bitter enemies.
Quote from: dtv on January 22, 2009, 07:50:22 PM
yourTV's EPG is powered by HWW (www.hww.com.au) who are owned by Nine. Spot the obvious? It's no wonder IceTV and Nine are bitter enemies.
All the official aggregated guides come from HWW.
Quote from: dtv on January 22, 2009, 07:50:22 PM
yourTV's EPG is powered by HWW (www.hww.com.au) who are owned by Nine. Spot the obvious? It's no wonder IceTV and Nine are bitter enemies.
Interesting .. I didn't know that .. That explains a lot. But, for Nine, EPGs (and HWW) hardly have to be a 'core' revenue stream .. rather a reliable way of communicating your message.
For IceTV, it's a totally different picture.
And a topic for another thread, the other 'Your' sites (yourMovies / yourGigs / yourBars) are all absolutely useless .. or maybe I'm just not their target market.
Just to throw the Cat amongst the pigeons, I think the M$ Vista Media Center EPG View is the best yet on a "Device"!
For PC use I quite like the IceTV Interactive list view as it is very easy to scan, 2nd to that is WebGuide which is very similar to VMC.
Quote from: djos on January 23, 2009, 01:12:38 PM
Just to throw the Cat amongst the pigeons, I think the M$ Vista Media Center EPG View is the best yet on a "Device"!
Want to post a screen shot for those of us fortunate enough(!) not to have to use MS at home and Vista at all!
(http://blufiles.storage.msn.com/y1p9JKQZ0RY9I5OkIXEmmtuP_X9Pvr5G_ffwCovtOrlP5RQkQ2ncvzUCLgU2bj92IlGR31utWKwsmk?PARTNER=WRITER)
I don't get it. The Beyonwiz EPG is very similar to that, with 6 channels showing (and 8 if you want to forego the help legend), program names showing, when highlighted, give the short event description, when info pressed, give the extended info description, highlights shows due to be recorded etc. It even has a PIG (picture in graphic) showing the TV inside the EPG next to where the event description of the highlighted event is.
I don't know why people bag out the Wiz EPG actually (apart from it truncating the names of longer show names, but the Vista EPG appears to be doing exactly the same), it works for me (but I use ICE mostly to do the programming with the Widget typically, or if that isn't letting me do what I want...e.g. keyword stuff, use the ICE webpages).
Regards
Quote from: tonymy01 on January 26, 2009, 10:22:01 AM
I don't get it. The Beyonwiz EPG is very similar to that, with 6 channels showing (and 8 if you want to forego the help legend), program names showing, when highlighted, give the short event description, when info pressed, give the extended info description, highlights shows due to be recorded etc. It even has a PIG (picture in graphic) showing the TV inside the EPG next to where the event description of the highlighted event is.
I don't know why people bag out the Wiz EPG actually (apart from it truncating the names of longer show names, but the Vista EPG appears to be doing exactly the same), it works for me (but I use ICE mostly to do the programming with the Widget typically, or if that isn't letting me do what I want...e.g. keyword stuff, use the ICE webpages).
Regards
I've wondered much the same. I can't see much advantage of the Vista EPG display over the Beyonwiz, either. The Vista display does seem to have a specific "Record series" icon rather than the Beyonwiz's use of shading for any recording). But of course, the icon uses up screen real estate that could be showing program information.
I've never seen the "Wiz" EPG screen so cant comment - VMC is my favorite of those I have experience with and it isn't just the look & feel; if you want to record a show in VMC you press record once, if you want to record a series you press record twice, it doesn't get much simpler than that.
Btw, I was never happy with any of the EPG's views available for the Toppy5k including JustEPG - I stuck to using TED/S on the PC.
Quote from: tonymy01 on January 26, 2009, 10:22:01 AM
I don't get it. The Beyonwiz EPG is very similar to that, with 6 channels showing (and 8 if you want to forego the help legend), program names showing, when highlighted, give the short event description, when info pressed, give the extended info description, highlights shows due to be recorded etc. It even has a PIG (picture in graphic) showing the TV inside the EPG next to where the event description of the highlighted event is.
I don't know why people bag out the Wiz EPG actually (apart from it truncating the names of longer show names, but the Vista EPG appears to be doing exactly the same), it works for me (but I use ICE mostly to do the programming with the Widget typically, or if that isn't letting me do what I want...e.g. keyword stuff, use the ICE webpages).
Regards
I concur. While, I do like JustEPG for the sheer volume of data visible, the BW EPG is more than adequate and very similar to the screenshot posted. Likewise I must admit to using the Ice website for almost all recording though, much like I use TED/s for the 5000.
Quote from: djos on January 23, 2009, 01:12:38 PMJust to throw the Cat amongst the pigeons, I think the M$ Vista Media Center EPG View is the best yet on a "Device"!
I agree. I really like it.
Media Center in Windows 7 really does look nice.
I haven't had a chance to play with the W7MC yet but if it is as good as W7 itself I suspect i'll buy it for my HTPC as soon as it launches. 8)