Required login & lost tuners

[boofhead]

Whenever the box starts for whatever reason it requires me to login. I don't use the IceTV services. It's a bit annoying because when my parents want to use it, they keep getting nagged to login. I couldn't find the option to not require login.

Also, after a restart, it doesn't detect all the tuners properly so I need to use the web interface to enable all the DVB-T tuners otherwise not all shows will record. If I don't check (say, I haven't need to use the box for many days) it gets a bit frustrating to see recordings missed because some settings don't stick.

[MD]

If your parents IceBox is under this email address it hasn't logged into our servers for some time so it needs a soft reset. This forum has also discussed the problems with the Icebox SSD which has caused numerous headaches such as the one you are experiencing and one which we will solve in the next few weeks by replacing every SSD with more robust ones suitable for PVR use. A specification which was clearly defined to the manufacturer but blame is pointless and we move on.  Also I'd recommend that they use our smartphone app as shown on the home page of our website as it makes finding new shows, setting and management of the recordings so much easier.

So, my apologies for this unreliability but it will be fixed as soon as we can get the better SSDs.

�To perform a 'soft reset':

1. Go into "Settings" from the home screen, this is the cog at the top of the screen.
2. Go down and select "LibreELEC"
3. On the "System" tab on the left hand side, look for the option on the right hand side of "Reset System Settings to defaults"
4. When prompted if you are sure, select "Yes".

The IceBox will then reboot twice, on the first reboot you will see some text on the screen as the soft reset is actually performed, then it will reboot again and load into a clean IceBox installation.

Upon loading you will get the standard setup wizards, the full steps on how to complete these are and even more handy tips on using the IceBox can be found at IceBox Setup & User Guide

To note when running through the setup again, if you are using a wireless network, please double check that the connection is established and is showing an IP Address before continuing through the setup wizard.

[TimC]

MD,

I think you may have missed this part of Boofhead's query.

I don't use the IceTV services. It's a bit annoying because when my parents want to use it, they keep getting nagged to login. I couldn't find the option to not require login.

I don't see how a soft reset will make requests to log on go away.
It may help with the lost channels though,

Boofhead
I have a further suggestion when doing the soft reset. It may be worth connecting the antenna cable directly from the wall point to one of the IceBox USB sticks (if you bought the four tuner unit) instead of via other devices, while the channel scan is being done. i.e. give it the best possible signal to scan on. Once the scan it completed, return your cabling to its original configuration. This is something you can try for any TV or PVR that has trouble scanning in channels. Once the device has scanned the channels in, it will operate with a weaker signal.

I'm not sure how to make the login request go away either, but I see your point. You want a box that your parents can easily operate and aren't all that tech savy. I suspect that you may need to turn off the tvheadend service, but I strongly recommend not doing that without further advice from someone who knows what the impact will be.

However, perhaps you should reconsider your decision to not use the IceTV service as it offers some unique capabilities.

One of the things that IceTV offers is the ability to control the recording settings of your PVR from anywhere that has cellular service. I actually set up a recording while I was holidaying in New Zealand.  The App is simple to use. Scroll through the list of available programs and select the one you want to record and follow the bouncing ball. I have been using the service for many years and I can't imagine not having it. It is worth having a look at what they offer on the main web page. There are only a limited number of PVRs that allow this service to work, and the IceBox is one developed by IceTV specifically to do so.

If you bought the IceBox, you have at least three months free service (possibly longer) to try it out.

All you need is an internet connection (Wifi or Ethernet) and an email address. If your parents have a landline there should be a router somewhere.

It does this by setting up communications between the IceTV servers in Melbourne (I think) and your IceBox, however to do that it needs you to login.

Given that you have already made the purchase, I highly recommend trying it out.  If you don't feel it is worth the fee after the trial period then don't pay and look at addressing the Login issue then. I am pretty sure the Icebox can operate as a stand alone PVR, but you would probably have to hunt around the Kodi forums (or possibly wait to see what answers you get here) to work out what you need you do to set it up.

Give it a try though.

[boofhead]

Thanks for the information.

For the login, I told it to login with the email address I use for this forum within the last 2 weeks.

It doesn't lose channels, it loses a tuner or two. I purchased the option with 2 USB tuners so I have 4 overall (2 x twin tuners) and seems to lose half the tuners.

As for the SSDs, anything we need to know if we plan on replacing them? Are they SATA or m.2?

[MD]

I'd suggest taking the power pin out each time and then try just one tuner and re-power, then the other to see if it's a tuner, which I doubt. Then if they are both ok, again first take the power pin out then try the splitter outputs one at a time with either functional tuner, re-powering each time. If all still ok check antenna cable and wall socket.

[TimC]

For the login, I told it to login with the email address I use for this forum within the last 2 weeks.

Thats good.  Keep a track of the email and password you used as they are now your login and password for the IveTV website and the App when you download it.

It doesn't lose channels, it loses a tuner or two.

I'm not sure what you mean by losing tuners.  Perhaps you mean losing channels.

Think of it this way.  A tuner is the equivalent the old channel switch TVs used to have. i.e. a knob that you turn to switch to the channel you want to watch.

A tuner of that type could only connect to one channel at a time.  Each of the USB tuners have the equivalent of two of the channel switches inside them and they automatically switch to whatever channel is required based on what the PVR requests.

From what I understand, the way the PVR uses the tuners is that when a tuner is needed, it picks the first tuner available (It you are watching live TV at the time it will probably be tuner No 2) tunes it to the station required and starts recording.  If a different channel is to be recorded at the same time, the PVR pick the next available tuner (Probably No 3) and records it too.
You don't really have much visibility of which tuner/s are in use at any one time, so you can't really lose tuners.

With the wonders of digital TV, this is all a little more complicated in that any single tuner can record any or all the channels provided by one broadcaster at the same time. i.e. Nine broadcasts on channels 9, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97 and 99. One tuner can record potentially 10 channels at the same time. Note: some of the channels will be showing the same program, so you would usually be doing that, but hopefully you get the idea. There may also be some processing capability limitations that limit how may channels can be recorded at the same time.

The idea behind having four tuners is that it will a very rare time when you want to record programs fr0m ABC, SBS, 9, 7 and 10 all at the same time.  There are actually very few PVRs that have four tuners. The IceBox is one of the few.

With all that understood, I suspect that you mean that some of the channels that are available in your area, are not shown in your channel list.
This happens if there is a weak signal or some external interference while you are initially scanning for channels. i.e. after a soft reset.

The only solution is the rescan when the signal is good. Note when scanning, the tuner picks up some additional data to just the RF frequency for the channel. If something interferes with that data at the time of the scan the scanner will not recognise the channel and will fail to add it to the channel list. This is all stuff that can happen to and digital TV device (including the TV itself)

There are any number of things that can prevent a good scan.
1. RF Interference at the frequencies you are trying to scan
2. An RF Amplifier/splitter if you have one can introduce noise or be too strong.
3. A passive RF splitter can reduce the signal strength.

Here are some things you can try if an initial scan fails to fide all the channels you expect:
1. Scan at a different time of day or possibly at night when most industrial interference sources are not on.
2. Take a cable from the wall point directly to one of the USB tuners (as I described above) i.e. take the little passive splitter out of the circuit. Note: The PVR one uses one tuner to do the scan.
3. if you are using an RF Amp with a gain control (A Knob to adjust the amplification) try turning the gain down. (Counterintuitive, but sometimes the signal can end up too strong and introduce distortion). If the signal is too weak you may need to turn it up though.
4. Find somewhere you can take a feed directly from the antenna, i.e. bypass any RF Amp or splitter.
5. Take the IceBox to a place where the signal is known to be good (maybe your place) and scan there.


Once you get a good scan you can take the IceBox back to your parent's place and set it up.

The trick is to get a good scan. Once that is done, the IceBox should keep all the channels unless you do another soft reset. You will be able to connect the channels even though they are a little weak.

As for the SSDs, anything we need to know if we plan on replacing them? Are they SATA or m.2?

As for the SSDs, my understanding is that IceTV has taken the view that the SSD issue, is on them i.e. a warrantee issue. When they have done sufficient investigation to identify a suitable replacement, they will advise you of what action is needed. If yours is happily recording, then I suggest that you simply continue to use it.  There are workarounds for a failure in the short term.

When all this is sorted out the Icebox will need to be opened up and the existing SSD will be replaced with a new one. How that is managed is anybody's guess.
Do we open up the box ourselves, or will we need to send the unit back to them so they can do it.

Whichever it is, full marks to IceTV for their integrity. 

They could have taken the Apple/Microsoft approach and played dumb, but they haven't. I also saw something in another thread that they are extending the Free IceTV offer until the SSD issue is sorted (I may be wrong in that though).

Good luck

[TimC]

Boofhead,


You can login the the IceTV service Here

Use the email and password you used for the Icebox.

Don't forget to download the app and try it out (Same email and password). Once you are familiar with it, you will be able to explain it to your parents better.

If worst comes to worst and they can't handle it, you can always set any recordings for them that they want from your phone. It'll give you a chance to talk to your parents more.

[raymondjpg]

From what I understand, the way the PVR uses the tuners is that when a tuner is needed, it picks the first tuner available (It you are watching live TV at the time it will probably be tuner No 2) tunes it to the station required and starts recording.  If a different channel is to be recorded at the same time, the PVR pick the next available tuner (Probably No 3) and records it too.

I don't know if it's any help to you or OP but my observation is that the order of two Hauppauge dual HD tuners called into action for recording are first #3, then #2 then #1 then #0 i.e. the reverse of what might be expected from the TV adapters lineup. Why it does this I don't know, ans I haven't tested what the order might be when playing live TV.

[MD]

We will certainly replace the SSDs.

If the customer is happy to do it themselves, as it only involves removing the IceBox base with four screws, unplugging the old SSD and plugging in the new one, we will send the new SSD to them. The new SSD will have been preconfigured by us with the correct BIOS preferences and IceTV software preloaded. The customer will just need to login as they do now after a soft reset.

If they prefer they can send the IceBox back to us, we will copy all the recordings on the old SSD to the new one then return it so, apart from about a week's turnaround time, it will now work reliably with old recordings and new ones coming up as their IceTV account sets them up when they log in again.  We have just purchased the cloning device for the copying.

This week, after much tooing and froing, we will be told by the Chinese manufacturer as to our cost for the new SSDs and the delivery schedule. I'd expect to have them, subject to freight and customs, in about three weeks.

This has been a horrid time for all involved and I'd hope we'll soon be over it with customers enjoying the IceBox as we always hoped. Then we can get down to smoothing out some clonky setup UI wrinkles and add more exciting features such as auto ad skipping.

[TimC]

recording are first #3, then #2 then #1 then #0

Ha!  So I did a ben Franklin.  He was the guy who took a guess that electricity flowed from positive to negative (they didn't know about electrons in those days). Hence all our electrical direction symbology (diodes, transistors, etc) is back to front.

I guessed ascending order and it was actually decending order.  In any case, the order is out of our control.

This has been a horrid time for all involved and I'd hope we'll soon be over it with customers enjoying the IceBox as we always hoped.

I can appreciate that.  I know you guys (and gals) try very hard to do the right thing by your customers. Being a member of the Skippa brigade I have always appreciated how much effort you all put in to keep things going. You could easily have written them all off as a lost cause and stopped supporting them, but you persevered.

I also know the Chinese are very adept at scaling their production to what they perceive is what you ask for.  If you get your specifications correct, they can produce very high quality, but they can just as easily produce rubbish if you miss something in the specs (or they think you have missed something). You can't say they are dishonest, but you usually get what you pay for and never more.

The Germans are more likely to make sure their products are good, but they cost a lot more too.

That's my racist rant for the day.

[boofhead]

It doesn't lose channels, it loses a tuner or two.

I'm not sure what you mean by losing tuners.  Perhaps you mean losing channels.

Nope, tuners. When it restarts not all tuners are enabled. It has no problems with actual channels tuned. I will do a test later and give feedback with the LEDs on the tuners that it ships with.

[IanL-S]

I have never experienced loosing one of the 2 USB tuners after a shutdown. I have lost tuners from time to time a BYOB IceBox, but that was always due to a loose connection.

I am wondering if somehow the TVHeadend settings have gone into read-only mode. If, when the initial scan was done, only one of the twin tuners were picked up, and the second added manually, this may explain what you are seeing. But why it would go into read-only mode is beyond me.

Also, please clarify if the unit is starting from standby or was powered off. From the description I suspect it was powered off.

[DeltaMikeCharlie]

Also, after a restart, it doesn't detect all the tuners properly so I need to use the web interface to enable all the DVB-T tuners otherwise not all shows will record. If I don't check (say, I haven't need to use the box for many days) it gets a bit frustrating to see recordings missed because some settings don't stick.

In the tvheadend WebUI under 'Configuration -> DVB Inputs -> TV adapters': Is/are the tuner/s in question present but with the enabled box not ticked?

Are the associated 'networks' still listed or do you need to reset that too?

Is it always the same one that goes missing or does it vary?

Each physical USB tuner has 2 logical tuners.  With 2 USB tuners, you should see adapters 0,1,2 and 3.  Do they go out in pairs like 0/1 and 2/3?