Topfield 2400 Quad Recording (May 2010 firmware)

[adama]

The last FW update had some pretty awesome features.  Pre-padding & quad recording are the one's I had been waiting for.

Lately I've noticed on a few occasions that my 2400 has been recording 3-4 channels simultaneously, but across 3 completely different networks?!  I understand the network multi-channel broadcasts (eg 7 / 7 mate or 9 / GEM). As an example, last night I was somehow recording at 7:30pm: Ch9 / Ch10 / Bris 31 all at once. 

I noticed than when I attempted chase play on Top Gear (Ch 9) it said I would have to first stop recording on Ch 10 or Bris 31.  At that stage I thought it might have been a corrupted recording, but sure enough I checked after the recording had finished and it worked beautifully.  I could have sworn I also noticed Ch 7 / Ch 9 AND Ch 10 recoding simultaneously in recent times also.

Not sure how this works given there are only two tuners??  Not that I'm complaining mind you   Just not sure how the ICE guide would cope with trying to schedule more than 2 recodings in the same time slot.

[prl]

Recording simultaneously from services on three different broadcast frequencies can't work on a dual tuner device.

As for IceTV, it doesn't know or care about your PVR's recording limitations. It just sends all the timers that you've requested, and then the recorder is supposed to send back an error for each of the recordings it couldn't set timers for. These then appear with the yellow error icon. This is a bit of a pain, because you can't find out about potential problems until the next time the PVR tries to update its recording schedule from IceTV. It's like that for all PVRs, not just Topfield.

[markb]

As for IceTV, it doesn't know or care about your PVR's recording limitations. It just sends all the timers that you've requested, and then the recorder is supposed to send back an error for each of the recordings it couldn't set timers for. These then appear with the yellow error icon.

BTW, comment to ICE/Topfield: Your implementation of this is poor. All the user sees is an error icon with a generic message something like "an error has occurred". It would have been much better if the pvr returned an error string which was presented to the user giving some guide as to what the problem is.

[Daniel Hall at IceTV]

As for IceTV, it doesn't know or care about your PVR's recording limitations. It just sends all the timers that you've requested, and then the recorder is supposed to send back an error for each of the recordings it couldn't set timers for. These then appear with the yellow error icon.

BTW, comment to ICE/Topfield: Your implementation of this is poor. All the user sees is an error icon with a generic message something like "an error has occurred". It would have been much better if the pvr returned an error string which was presented to the user giving some guide as to what the problem is.

We are working on this with PVR manufacturers, sadly the error information coming back up has been lacking in the past.

[adama]

Recording simultaneously from services on three different broadcast frequencies can't work on a dual tuner device.

I appreciate what you're saying, but I would be interested to hear from another owner of the Toppy 2400 as I have the recorded proof that last night the device recorded from 3 different networks simultaneously.

On a separate note, the yellow alert issue has dogged me ever since I subscribed to Ice TV.  At one stage I was ready to cancel my ICE subscription and go back to a TAP solution (bit more basic, not as pretty, but no subscription costs).

It's difficult when you have to wait for the Topfield manufacturers to produce better information for ICE TV Devs in order to give more detailed information on exactly why the timer is going to fail.  It's almost a weekly chore to look for yellow alerts; cancel the series; then re-schedule the series; then wait to see if the red 'donut' is going to go solid or back to yellow again...

[prl]

Recording simultaneously from services on three different broadcast frequencies can't work on a dual tuner device.

I appreciate what you're saying, but I would be interested to hear from another owner of the Toppy 2400 as I have the recorded proof that last night the device recorded from 3 different networks simultaneously.
...

I think you may be misinterpreting the evidence. Have you checked the contents of all three recordings you made when you thought you were recording from three different broadcasters?

It's simply not possible to record from three different broadcast frequencies on a dual tuner PVR. Briz31 digital is broadcast on channel 38 (599.5MHz), a different frequency from any of the other digital (or analog) broadcasts from Mt Coot-tha. A digital TV tuner can only tune to one frequency. With a dual tuner PVR, you can't receive, let alone record, services from broadcasts on three different frequencies, which it would need to do to record Nine, Ten and Briz31 simultaneously, or to record Seven, Nine and Ten simultaneously.

[adama]

Fair enough, I understand what you're saying.

I'll confirm the recordings I already have and do some further testing.

I'll post back with my findings.

[TobyDog]

Recording simultaneously from services on three different broadcast frequencies can't work on a dual tuner device.

I appreciate what you're saying, but I would be interested to hear from another owner of the Toppy 2400 as I have the recorded proof that last night the device recorded from 3 different networks simultaneously.

I have a Topfield 7100+ and I've managed on 2-3 occasions to record three completely separate channels! But here's the rub on playback you'll find one of the three files is empty - in other words it will report it as being (say) 1hr.15mins (assuming you have 15m padding) but it will only play for 2-3 secs & stop. I understood it to be a known bug in the 7100+ I don't know about 2400 but I think they virtually share the same FW.

Cheers

[prl]

Recording simultaneously from services on three different broadcast frequencies can't work on a dual tuner device.

I appreciate what you're saying, but I would be interested to hear from another owner of the Toppy 2400 as I have the recorded proof that last night the device recorded from 3 different networks simultaneously.

I have a Topfield 7100+ and I've managed on 2-3 occasions to record three completely separate channels! But here's the rub on playback you'll find one of the three files is empty - in other words it will report it as being (say) 1hr.15mins (assuming you have 15m padding) but it will only play for 2-3 secs & stop. I understood it to be a known bug in the 7100+ I don't know about 2400 but I think they virtually share the same FW.

Cheers

As I said, it's simply not possible for it to make three simultaneous recordings from services carried at three different frequencies. There appears to be a bug in the code that checks whether a timer is possible or not.

[markb]

We are working on this with PVR manufacturers, sadly the error information coming back up has been lacking in the past.

Decoded: "We have to put up with whatever crap implementation Topfield present to us"!

Actually Daniel, it is a shame that this ICE stuff was not implemented as a TAP, rather than being embedded in the firmware. Then you/we would be de-coupled from Topfields hopeless firmware update frequency and development/test processes. The ICE site and software seems to me to be very well done so I would much prefer to be relying on ICE alone to maintain and supply a ICE interface TAP. I bet my 7100+ ICE interface would work more reliably than it does at present.

[vader1111]

Recording simultaneously from services on three different broadcast frequencies can't work on a dual tuner device.

I appreciate what you're saying, but I would be interested to hear from another owner of the Toppy 2400 as I have the recorded proof that last night the device recorded from 3 different networks simultaneously.

I have a Topfield 7100+ and I've managed on 2-3 occasions to record three completely separate channels! But here's the rub on playback you'll find one of the three files is empty - in other words it will report it as being (say) 1hr.15mins (assuming you have 15m padding) but it will only play for 2-3 secs & stop. I understood it to be a known bug in the 7100+ I don't know about 2400 but I think they virtually share the same FW.

Cheers

As I said, it's simply not possible for it to make three simultaneous recordings from services carried at three different frequencies. There appears to be a bug in the code that checks whether a timer is possible or not.

As previously noted, it's a known Topfield firmware bug, not an IceTV issue. 

The explanation given by JaffaMan on the Topfield Forum is as follows:
An empty recording can happen if:
- you have both pre and post padding set
- you have a recording or two running that end and another recording or two that need to start and the new ones need at least one new tuner that was in use by the previous recording
- and you are playing back a file at the time that the change over in tuners needs to happen.

To reiterate, it's not a problem with the IceTV reservation system at all, it's a problem with how the Topfield manages its recording of the reservations once they have been set.

[adama]

I was chatting to Phil (moderator) on the ITopfield forum last night and you're quite correct.  It seems the Toppy 2400 on-screen display is giving false information.  It says  that it is recording from 3 different sources (ie CH 7/9/10) but it's only reflecting the schedule including the pre & post padding.  It's not actually displaying the correct details of exactly what the device is currently recording.

In other words it's a firmware bug that not only causes the on-screen display to give false information on what it's recording, it also stops an existing recording in order to switch to a new recording on another channel (whether you like it or not).

I usually have a -3 min and +30 min pad by default, so it is often the overlap as it changes between channels that is causing the phenomenon.

Thanks for you feedback all.

 

ps - here is the link with full details of the issue: http://www.itopfield.com.au/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1147&PN=1&title=issue-with-latest-firmware