Author Topic: Recording errors on the IceTV website  (Read 13381 times)

Offline raymondjpg

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Re: Recording errors on the IceTV website
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2011, 03:21:26 PM »
There are three frustrating things here for me.  The first is having to wait an hour for the machine to sync before you can then rescheduling the show (and then wait another hour for that to go through).  I understand that icetv doesn't want their server swamped, but it's still annoying when you are trying to fix something.

The second is having to manually check the site every few days to fix any unexplained errors.  Every time one comes up I curse the lack of email alerts for failed timers.

The final one is that I'm never sure if the problem is icetv or my 2400, (or me).  I've followed icetv's tech advice to the letter and it keeps happening.
I could be wrong but I think that the intervals between fetches are dictated by the PVRs, not the Ice servers, although it is possible for the Ice techs to reset a user's account so that fetches can be more frequent.

I check both the Ice site and the PVRs daily to ensure that timers are set correctly. While that is OK for me, I understand that it can be a real nuisance for people who want to set their timers remotely (a feature that must sell quite a few IceTV subscriptions).

Has the 2400 really bedded down with IceTV yet? If not, the model is new enough that Ice and Topfield need to get their acts together, although it has been observed that Topfield firmware engineers are "lazy".

I have just seen that there is a new procedure on the IceTV site for re-sending timers. They advise "Topfield PVRs will require a factory reset before resending any recordings." Hmmm. It may result in a more reliable and accurate timer list, but a lot of work for the customer in setting up the PVR again.
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Offline prl

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Re: Recording errors on the IceTV website
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2011, 11:00:02 PM »
There are three frustrating things here for me.  The first is having to wait an hour for the machine to sync before you can then rescheduling the show (and then wait another hour for that to go through).  I understand that icetv doesn't want their server swamped, but it's still annoying when you are trying to fix something.
...
I could be wrong but I think that the intervals between fetches are dictated by the PVRs, not the Ice servers, although it is possible for the Ice techs to reset a user's account so that fetches can be more frequent.

Yes, you are wrong. :) The time between fetches is set by the server, not by the PVR. The PVR contacts the server, and is either sent the update requested (EPG and Timers are separate requests) and how long it should wait for the next update, or it is sent a message essentially saying "request made too early, try again in xx minutes". The time to next update is stored on a per account and per device basis.

On Beyonwizes, the PVR contacts the IceTV server shortly (a few minutes) after a start from standby, and then it follows the times that the server sends it. You can see it counting down to the next update in a status window in the IceTV setup screen. The normal times between updates are 60 min for EPG and 30 min for timers. These times can be longer if the server is busy, though I haven't seen that happen for a long time.

On Topfields, there seems to be a longer delay between startup from standby and the first IceTV fetch. I assume that once it gets rolling, the fetch time rules from the server are the same as for Beyonwiz, but I don't know for sure. I believe there is still an FAQ about how IceTV works on Topfields on the Topfield forum, but since the Topfield forum is now closed to non-members, even for reading, I don't post links to that forum.

One consequence of all this is that any debugging of problems with IceTV can be a drawn-out process.
Peter
Beyonwiz T4 in-use
Beyonwiz T2, T3 & T4 for testing

Offline raymondjpg

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Re: Recording errors on the IceTV website
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2011, 02:33:16 PM »
There are three frustrating things here for me.  The first is having to wait an hour for the machine to sync before you can then rescheduling the show (and then wait another hour for that to go through).  I understand that icetv doesn't want their server swamped, but it's still annoying when you are trying to fix something.
...
I could be wrong but I think that the intervals between fetches are dictated by the PVRs, not the Ice servers, although it is possible for the Ice techs to reset a user's account so that fetches can be more frequent.

Yes, you are wrong. :) The time between fetches is set by the server, not by the PVR. The PVR contacts the server, and is either sent the update requested (EPG and Timers are separate requests) and how long it should wait for the next update, or it is sent a message essentially saying "request made too early, try again in xx minutes". The time to next update is stored on a per account and per device basis.

On Beyonwizes, the PVR contacts the IceTV server shortly (a few minutes) after a start from standby, and then it follows the times that the server sends it. You can see it counting down to the next update in a status window in the IceTV setup screen. The normal times between updates are 60 min for EPG and 30 min for timers. These times can be longer if the server is busy, though I haven't seen that happen for a long time.

On Topfields, there seems to be a longer delay between startup from standby and the first IceTV fetch. I assume that once it gets rolling, the fetch time rules from the server are the same as for Beyonwiz, but I don't know for sure. I believe there is still an FAQ about how IceTV works on Topfields on the Topfield forum, but since the Topfield forum is now closed to non-members, even for reading, I don't post links to that forum.

One consequence of all this is that any debugging of problems with IceTV can be a drawn-out process.
Thanks for the technical information.

With my Topfield there is network traffic as soon as the HDD check has been completed after switching on from standby. The EPG takes a few minutes to load after that. Timers appear to be passed to the PVR well within 30 minutes.

To go back to what grahfed found frustrating, do you have any idea why IceTV would need to wait an hour between updating timers on the Topfield PVRs, but only 30 minutes for the BW?

Offline prl

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Re: Recording errors on the IceTV website
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2011, 04:32:18 PM »
...
To go back to what grahfed found frustrating, do you have any idea why IceTV would need to wait an hour between updating timers on the Topfield PVRs, but only 30 minutes for the BW?
No idea, not even whether that's expected behaviour. I've never had a Topfield with networked IceTV (I used to have a TF7000 with sneakernet IceTV EPG, but that's a completely different situation). Is there any information in the Topfield forum FAQ about IceTV?

From what I've heard, the Topfields give very little feedback about what they're doing with IceTV. Beyonwizes have a little status window you can look at and see directly when it will be getting the next update.

If there's a difference between how often IceTV allows Topfields to update timers and how often Beyonwizes do, I don't know why. Perhaps someone from Ice could say?

Edit: IceTV's FAQ about how often timers are updated says that they should normally be updated every 30 minutes, unless the server is heavily loaded. There's no mention of it being different for Topfields. It does say that Elgato EyeTV only gets timer updates once every 60 minutes.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2011, 05:00:09 PM by prl »

Offline raymondjpg

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Re: Recording errors on the IceTV website
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2011, 06:08:40 PM »
Is there any information in the Topfield forum FAQ about IceTV?
This from the Topfield Forum:

"It appears that IceTV Guide updates can normally be done every 60 minutes, and IceTV interactive updates can be done every 30 minutes. However, the protocol has a "call back in X minutes" message from the IceTV server, which appears to be sent at the end of each exchange, but is also sent if the server is contacted by a PVR before it was due to make contact, and can also be sent if the PVR contacts the server at the correct time, but the server is loaded, and has increased the time between updates." (as Edited by JaffaMan - 28/Feb/2010.) (You might recognise your own words.)

and

"No, currently (and nearly a year later Smile ), we are still at the same point in history. 35 min is enough to pull in the Reservations though. An updated EPG takes the full 62 min as discussed before."

Note that I have been selective with the quotes, and the second one applies to the Topfield 2400.

The first quote implies that timer updates might be made every 30 minutes, but the "My Account" information on the IceTV site only indicates when EPG fetches occur and that is once every hour or so.

From what you have said, and what might be deduced from the Topfield forum, it is possible that both the BW and Topfield EPG and timer updates operate in a similar way, at least from IceTV's end

Nonetheless Topfield owners (including me) are persistently under the impression that full updates only occur once every hour or so. Might it have something to do with the need for the Topfield to have an updated EPG before it will process any new timers?

Offline prl

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Re: Recording errors on the IceTV website
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2011, 07:43:45 PM »
...
Nonetheless Topfield owners (including me) are persistently under the impression that full updates only occur once every hour or so. Might it have something to do with the need for the Topfield to have an updated EPG before it will process any new timers?
Unfortunately, that sort of level of detail is hard to know without direct feedback from the device. It's possible that, for example, Topfield has decided to simply do all updates when the EPG update is permitted. The server side determines the minimum time between updates; I guess there's nothing that says that the PVR firmware writers will always update as soon as it's allowed.

And yes, I did know that the Topfield IceTV FAQ is based on the IceTV FAQ I wrote for Beyonwiz. However I haven't read the Topfield version since the Topfield forum closed its doors to non-members.

Offline raymondjpg

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Re: Recording errors on the IceTV website
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2011, 08:03:49 PM »
...
Nonetheless Topfield owners (including me) are persistently under the impression that full updates only occur once every hour or so. Might it have something to do with the need for the Topfield to have an updated EPG before it will process any new timers?
Unfortunately, that sort of level of detail is hard to know without direct feedback from the device. It's possible that, for example, Topfield has decided to simply do all updates when the EPG update is permitted. The server side determines the minimum time between updates; I guess there's nothing that says that the PVR firmware writers will always update as soon as it's allowed.

And yes, I did know that the Topfield IceTV FAQ is based on the IceTV FAQ I wrote for Beyonwiz. However I haven't read the Topfield version since the Topfield forum closed its doors to non-members.
I only have experience of the 7100 and don't anticipate any more developments in firmware. Perhaps grahford could be mildly reassured that maybe there is still some time for a firmware update for the 2400 series which allows for a 30 minute interval between timer updates.

Offline daylesfordpep

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Re: Recording errors on the IceTV website
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2011, 06:25:16 PM »
Hi All
I purchased my unit in June to take advantage of 4 recordings on two streams.  Been not stop problems since the purchase.  In fact I am  looking at a blank reservation page on the recorder as it has just lost everything.  Frequently lose the guide and very frequently the website shows conflicts where they don't exist.  Have also recently been getting recordings from the wrong station and that state an hour recording but go for minutes.  Really disappointed at how many series recordings I have given up on.

Manager from IceTV informed my there were known conflicts with the model Topfield I purchased and IceTV.  Topfield in Korea are hoping to have the problems fixed by the end of August - I hope so too.

I like the Topfield and I like IceTV.  Very disappointed they are selling a product with so many faults but think it will be a great service when the faults are ironed out. :-\

Offline wally3218

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Re: Recording errors on the IceTV website
« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2011, 05:25:31 PM »
Something seems to be wrong with the names of the programs to be recorded on my 2460 there showing
4/09 Sun 21:30 Camelot-3
4/09 Sun 22:30 Camelot-3
Shouldnt the 2nd episode be called Camelot-4
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Madeleine IceGuide

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Re: Recording errors on the IceTV website
« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2011, 08:17:00 PM »
Hi. This what we have in our guide:

Guinevere at 9.30
"Guinevere and her fiance Leontes arrive at Camelot after their land is invaded. Merlin, knowing how Arthur feels about her, tries everything he can to keep them apart. Merlin and Arthur travel to Pendragon castle and meet with Morgan, who reveals a secret about her past."

Lady of the Lake at 10.30
"When Arthur's sword is broken by Gawain, Merlin journeys to the master blacksmith Caliburn to enlist his skills into forging a new blade."

If the descriptions don't match then it isn't our data. Also, Camelot was dropped from 9 on Wed and re-scheduled on Go! on Thur ... are you seeing it on Go! on your pvr?

Offline wally3218

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Re: Recording errors on the IceTV website
« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2011, 09:18:49 PM »
Thanks Madeleine , I was querying why both my reservations show as "Camelot-3"
I think once the shows have been recorded that the number gets changed and its not a problem.
I'm just getting used to my Topfield 2460 everything else is working great with IceTV

Offline wally3218

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Re: Recording errors on the IceTV website
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2011, 05:39:01 PM »
I just updated my reservations by adding a new shows to be recorded one has givin me the yellow error triangle.
One show has been recieved by the 2460 but the other one hasnt been recieved.
This appears to have been caused by the start times being different from the epg guide on the site and the epg guide that i have on the pvr.
Will the timers be resent after the epg guide updates on the 2460 and will the yellow error triangle be replaced by the red circle.

Offline Davo@home

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Re: Recording errors on the IceTV website
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2011, 06:33:34 PM »
I upgraded from my 7100 that I have had for several years to the 2460 recently and have also noted these recording problems, it seems to occur due to differences between the pvr EPG and ICE web site program times and even complete programs when changed are not reflected with the pvr's EPG as wally3218 has also seen (of note last night Nikita shown on ICE web as starting at 2250, pvr showed as 2300, no recording reservation but shown on web site as programed). I have checked when last fetch's were and have not yet determined the frequency of the units fetches but the unit has just been on for about an hour and the last fetch was still early this morning. Have also note on several occasions that there is no extended program information on the pvr EPG but it is shown on the ICE we site.

Have missed several recordings because of this, am still looking and will start logging in more detail now that the above seems to be the cause. May some advice from ICE on what and why this maybe happening? Never had this issue with the 7100!

Offline Lisey

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Re: Recording errors on the IceTV website
« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2011, 10:02:25 AM »
Ive got a 7100 and record a lot of shows and have never has the yellow icon.

Offline wally3218

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Re: Recording errors on the IceTV website
« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2011, 11:56:37 AM »
Ive got a 7100 and record a lot of shows and have never has the yellow icon.
I believe this problem only happens to the 2400 and 2460 I also had a 7100 and had no problems with that.


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