ICE causes rebooting on 7100+ recorders beginning today

[DeltaMikeCharlie]

If you have access to the TAP's source code can you change it to use a fixed amount of RAM and see if you can work out approximately how much (little) RAM the pimp process is allocated? I'd like to ask Topfield to increase the allocated RAM by 50% but need to know if that is feasible with the amount of free RAM available.

I do have access to my TAP's source code.  Unfortunately, the TAP works by creating a file with the PIMP EPG request and then calling an external WGET executable that sends the file as a POST request to the PIMP server and then saves the response to another file.  It would be a big change to redesign the TAP to receive directly to RAM.

Requesting a solution (firmware update) from Topfield Korea is the plan. But as any firmware update always takes time to arrive notifying all customers with Topfield PVRs is the immediate plan.

It's a good plan and Korea did recently fix a bug relating to the new MPEG4 channels, but only for relatively current models.

While they are at it, they should also fix the bug that sees the CPU utilisation reach 99.9% when ICE is enabled.  It causes any TAPs running to respond slowly.

[Dave at IceTV]

Requesting a solution (firmware update) from Topfield Korea is the plan. But as any firmware update always takes time to arrive notifying all customers with Topfield PVRs is the immediate plan.

It's a good plan and Korea did recently fix a bug relating to the new MPEG4 channels, but only for relatively current models.

While they are at it, they should also fix the bug that sees the CPU utilisation reach 99.9% when ICE is enabled.  It causes any TAPs running to respond slowly.

The problem I have when dealing with foreign PVR manufacturers, due to the language barrier when using technical terms, is that they tend to focus on one issue at a time. If I list multiple issues it becomes too confusing. Listing one urgent issue is more likely to get that issue fixed.

It is possible that the CPU utilisation issue may actually be the cause of the rebooting - and therefore get fixed at the same time.

There are other issues I'd like fixed, like daylight saving.

[Dave at IceTV]

I am also guessing a full reset will cause issues as that will trigger a complete refresh and collection of lots of data to process. This has to happen from time when timers stop being set automatically, look forward to that day.

I suspect that the old issue of a Topfield stopping updating the timers is related to the current lack of memory issue and therefore it may happen to get fixed at the same time.

Now that I have it fully working and no reboot since my last post I don't want to touch the 2400 as its working exactly like I want it (with no issues)! I am not missing ABC2 as I don't watch it but it does leave a big hole in JustEPG.

I would disable 1 more channel that you don't need just to give the Topfield a bit more free space in case there's more guide data one week in the future.

That may also get your quantity of 'guide enabled' channels back to an even number allowing you configure JustEPG to look neater.

[Dave at IceTV]

I can now reproduce this bug. I just set the region to "WA - Regional WA" as it seems to have the most channels with no duplicate LCNs that would also cause a reboot.

Also the issue only occurs when the EPG is completely blank and the Topfield has load the whole 7days EPG. This would be necessary after clearing and rescanning the channels, or after resetting the EPG from the IceTV menu, or after a factory reset. Things that need to be done twice a year at each daylight saving changeover for those living in states with daylight saving, and when new channels start broadcasting.

- As I am in Sydney only 27 of those LCNs match channels on my 2460.
- 6 of the extra 11 LCNs are extra choices for Channels that my 2460 does receive.
- The remaining 5 LCNs are in 3 extra channels that my 2460 does Not receive.

So next I started testing:

- First I disabled 1 of the 3 extra channels that had 1 LCN choice (WIN on 8 ) and the 2460 still rebooted.
- Next I disabled 1 more of the 3 extra channels that had 1 LCN choice ('GEM on WIN' on 80) and the 2460 stopped rebooting -but the EPG was blank.
- I then reset the EPG and let the Topfield reboot once more (which is normal after a reset) and the EPG loaded with no more rebooting.

Now that it had loaded the EPG and stopped rebooting I re-enabled 'GEM on WIN' on 80 then:

- Switched the Topfield to standby and then back on - no rebooting and EPG still okay.
- Knowing this would be because it already had 99% of the EPG loaded before I enabled 'GEM on WIN' and reset the EPG and strangely it did not reboot. It fetched and loaded the EPG as it should.
- So I reset it again and again it loaded the EPG correctly... then rebooted. But after it rebooted and loaded the EPG it did Not reboot again.

It seems for my 2460 using the WA Regional region that 37.5 channels is the point where it reboots (for me with no recording reservations).

- With 38 LCNs enabled it reboots.
- With 37 LCNs enabled it sometimes reboots.
- With 36 LCNs enabled it doesn't reboot.

Of course this could change if next week's guide has more data than this week's. Or if set a bunch a recordings.

Considering capitol city regions only have 27 channels you would think that Topfield PVRs in those regions should never have the problem - but some people in Sydney and Melbourne have reported that their Topfield PVRs has the rebooting problem. Maybe different Topfield models and different firmware versions allocate different amounts of memory. Obviously processing any recording reservations takes up memory as well so the more recordings the PVR has to set the less channels you can safely have enabled.

So with 36 LCNs enabled I set 10 series with 80 schedules for the next 5 days and waited for the PVR to do a fetch... and it ignored all the schedules. When I checked a couple of hours later it had set 2 schedules and was recording one of them. An hour later all 80 schedules were set.

[IanL-S]

Dave

As I was one of those in metropolitan area that had the problem, I advise that when the problem started I had:

• All ABC LCNs active (inducing duplicate 21) (total=5).
• All SBS LCNs  (total=5).
• Most 7 Network LCN, including duplicates 70 and 71, but not the infotainment LCN which IceTV does not proide data (total=6).
• All 9 Network LCNs, including duplicate LCN 91 and LCN 98, but not eXtra  (total=7).
• All 10 Network LCNs, including duplicate LCN 12, but not the two infotainment LCN which IceTV does not proide data (total=5).
• C31 community TV (total=1).

This makes a total of 29LCN.

Ian

[Downunder55]

I have the rebooting problem on a Toppy 2460, it seems to have started today, could have had a couple in the last couple of days but wife not certain

Did a factory reset, have updated firmware, and still rebooting.

With ICE TV enabled happens constantly, with ice TV not enabled it is stable.

Just disabled ch2 as per previous post and stable so far with ice tv enabled.

Region Brisbane

[DeltaMikeCharlie]

It is possible that the CPU utilisation issue may actually be the cause of the rebooting - and therefore get fixed at the same time.

The 99.9% CPU problem has been around for years, it has never caused a reboot to my knowledge, it just slows down TAP function.  I think that they are just doing something silly with the sleep() function in their ICE thread.

There are other issues I'd like fixed, like daylight saving.

Daylight savings is a big fix.

To do DST properly, the firmware needs to know what "region" the user is operating in.  This region is then used when decoding the DVD TOT to determine the current UTC offset, the next DST transition (expressed in UTC) as well as the next UTC offset.

http://www.freetv.com.au/media/Engineering/OP45_Application_of_Time_Related_Tables_in_Australian_DVB-T_Systems_Issue_3_September_2008.pdf

The firmware just knows the current UTC offset and can not look forward and persuadably will need a firmware patch if the DST rules ever change.

TAP writers have circumvented this with DSTConfig.tap that writes a DST.ini file.  The TAP date/time functions can interrogate this file to determine the true DST situation.

[vincent]

Last night I turned ABC2 back on but turned off Channel 9 and 10 as I now tend to only watch the HD channels of 9 and 10. I always had my timers set to pick the HD channel so have not seen this cause an issue.  Its been running all day with no issues. Now I know the problem on a full reset I will just start with a few extra channel disabled and ABC2 will be fine as I don't have many timers on those channels once back and stable I can just turn it back on and wait for the toppy to catchup.

Its not idea but knowing the problem its not hard to work around it unless we get a F/W update that fixes it correctly. Given I found this thread with google most users will find a working solution and given its ICE causing the memory overflow then then know where to look.

[mikeathome]

I really would like to know why this problem started on March 1.

I have not seen this issue in the past 4 years yet suddenly it appears with no changes by me to my account details.

BTW I have 23 LCNs active.

It's not hard to work around? Please explain how I can do that without disabling ABC2 (if that even works) which is the only channel my daughter watches.

[IanL-S]

If the root cause of the problem is the Toppy not coping with the size of the EPG data download, then the explanation of why it only just started is that the amount of data being downloaded increased with the addition of 10HD and 7flix and in regional areas Nine affiliates adding duplicate LCN for Nine, NineHD, which added to the duplicate for 9Go.

If you did a rescan early, there was a place-holder in the IceTV EPG, and EPG data was added slowly. Eventually it got to a critical mass, causing spontaneous reboots.

Delta Mike Charlie has pointed out that the reason why ABC 2 appears to be the culprit is that it has a very large number of very short programs, hence a big hunk of EPG data to be downloaded. Disabling ABC would have the same impact as disabling two or three other LCNs.

It looks like my 5300 may be having problems (it has not done an EPG fetch for a while), hopefully it is not in a reboot loop.

Ian

[vincent]

With ABC2 re-enabled and the STD versions of 9 and 10 disabled I was not getting reboots but the toppy locked up, it would not respond to any inputs. I have now disabled ABC2 again and its back working.

Hopefully top field will do another new f/W to fix this issue at some point.

[prl]

Shouldn't this topic be moved to the Topfield area?

[IanL-S]

Shouldn't this topic be moved to the Topfield area?

I made that suggestion in a PM to Dan or Dave some time back. At the time they were very busy dealing with the introduction on 10HD, 7flix and the new service upheaval for Nine Network regional affiliates.

Ian

[IanL-S]

I spoke to Topfield Australia support this morning and, after a meeting they had yesterday, they have referred the problem to the engineers in Korea.

Ian

[QinQld]

Hi there,  my Topfield has once again started reloading continually.  I have disabled Ice to stop this but am wondering if there is new information out there?

Cheers