Author Topic: Time differences - network EPG vs Ice EPG  (Read 5311 times)

Offline tonydav

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Time differences - network EPG vs Ice EPG
« on: March 10, 2011, 09:39:00 AM »
I've been having some issues over the last week with some programs not recording as set to record in my Interactive settings.

Still not sure I have this worked out, but...

Last night in desperation I deleted all EPG, IceTV etc settings on my Beyonwiz after updating the BIOS. For some reason the Beyonwiz wouldn't download the IceTV EPG (MSG "Request ignored because it's being made too often" - I've queried this elsewhere) so I disabled it so that the Beyonwiz would download the network EPG so I could manually start recording at 7:30.

Very interesting to say the least.

Whereas the IceTV TV guide has Home and Away listed as 7:00-7:30pm, the network guide has it listed as 7:04-7:34pm.

My Kitchen Rules - 7:34pm - 8:41pm
Big Bang Theory - 7:33pm - 8:03pm
Biggest Loser - 7:32pm - 8:34pm

(These are from memory but pretty accurate).

So when I had selected H&A to record I then couldn't manually select BBT & BL to record as H&A was still going.

I'm wondering if this is what could be causing my issues with some programs not recording?

I assume this relates to the crackdown on wrong times, but I can see it could cause issues with IceTV Interactive.

Offline prl

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Re: Time differences - network EPG vs Ice EPG
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2011, 10:14:55 AM »
Already by that time of night, the start and end times given that aren't aligned with the normal half-hour are probably no less a fantasy than the nominal half-hour aligned times. And your specific example is also a good example of why, in my opinion, making these fine changes in the EPG is of much less use than people suppose it is.

Since IceTV's schedule keeps to the published schedule rather than trying to make these adjustments, it's highly unlikely that this sort of madness in the FTA EPG is causing problems with IceTV scheduling, because once IceTV is enabled and the EPG filled from it, the FTA EPG is not used. Certainly time clashes in the Beyonwiz when IceTV attempts to set timers won't cause the "Request ignored because it's being made too often" error. You're most likely to see that if you power cycle the Beyonwiz or do anything else that causes the Beyonwiz to try to synchronise with IceTV before its due time.

In any case, if you set timers for H&A, BBT and BL, you're likely to miss either the end of H&A or the beginning of one of BBT or BL. The only way that the timers can be guaranteed to capture all three programs is if your Beyonwiz clock is exactly correct and all the broadcasters involved adhere strictly to their timetables. Don't hold your breath. Another solution is to get more tuners. Even with three, I sometimes get unresolvable conflicts (currently one per week).
Peter
Beyonwiz T4 in-use
Beyonwiz T2, T3 & T4 for testing

Offline tonydav

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Re: Time differences - network EPG vs Ice EPG
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2011, 11:25:38 AM »
I'll have to look again tonight.

What was happening last week was some programs were scheduled via IceTV (and Kitchen rules was the main one) and it wouldn't appear on the Beyonwiz (BW). I tried removing the entire schedule and reinstating but still wouldn't appear.

At that time I could manually add it by going into the guide and pressing the record button.

Then this week, same thing happened, but I found the record button wouldn't start some items recording.

At that stage I was (and possibly still am) thinking a Beyonwiz issue. Saw a new firmware and thought it might help.

As the BW hadn't wouldn't download the IceTV guide (discussed elsewhere and not related to this issue) that's why Iused the FTA. This also wouldn't let me click the record button but with the time difs made sense.

But still doesn't explain why I couldn't click it before.

I think what I need to do is go through this all tonight or tomorrow at home and document exactly what is happening. If the IceTV guide is using the standard 1/2 hour slots my issue isn't explained.

BTW, I did realise in my example I'd miss the end of H&A as the auto-padding wouldn't extend. I can't see a way around this so we just live with it when it happens this way (and the wife complains every single time ;))

Another question; you mention having 3 tuners. Is there some way for Ice to auto manage multiple tuners (I also have a TVIX6600) - at the moment I manually specify a device but some times I still get 3 things scheduled for the same time.

Offline prl

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Re: Time differences - network EPG vs Ice EPG
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2011, 04:02:08 PM »
Unfortunately, scheduling across multiple devices (I have a DP-Lite and a DP-H1) has to be done manually.

Offline tonydav

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Re: Time differences - network EPG vs Ice EPG
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2011, 01:32:58 AM »
That is a real bugger. It would be great if IceTV could automate this across multiple devices.

Offline prl

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Re: Time differences - network EPG vs Ice EPG
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2011, 09:16:53 AM »
That is a real bugger. It would be great if IceTV could automate this across multiple devices.
Yep. It's been suggested on this form a number of times.

Offline Daniel Drysdale at IceTV

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Re: Time differences - network EPG vs Ice EPG
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2011, 12:08:13 PM »
The problem with timer collisions is something we are well aware of and discuss constantly in the office.

We agree with prl with regards to the "speculative" nature of the scheduled times, be they rounded to the half hour or not.

We have some ideas on "timer collision avoidance" that we would like to explore more fully, at the moment there is no firm timeframe for implementation.

As for the multi-device recording management, this too has been discussed at length here at IceTV HQ, at the moment management feel it is to geeky a feature, I haven't given up on the concept but it will be a tough sell.
Cheers,

Dan
Software Manager @ IceTV

Offline prl

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Re: Time differences - network EPG vs Ice EPG
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2011, 12:39:42 PM »
...
As for the multi-device recording management, this too has been discussed at length here at IceTV HQ, at the moment management feel it is to geeky a feature, I haven't given up on the concept but it will be a tough sell.
Just tell them two tuners isn't enough. :) And that's a TV habits thing, not a geekiness thing; even though I can probably be classified as a geek.

If you like, I can give them some of my busy evenings' recording schedules, and have them sit down and assign programs to PVRs manually.

Offline tonydav

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Re: Time differences - network EPG vs Ice EPG
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2011, 12:51:01 PM »
I agree about the half hour thing. My actual concern in posting this was that if IceTV went to "exact" times - assuming they were available, how they would get around the scenario I discussed above - i.e. a program finishing 1 minute after another one on another network starts.  Personally I think the 1/2 hour slots and using padding works very well.

I also agree with PRL re multiple timers.  I don't think it's a geek feature at all as with 5 networks each with multiple channels - 2 tuners is simply not enough.

Would a simpler version/work around be allowing the user to designate networks to a device? Obviously no where near as good as a IceTV managing everything but still easier than remembering to assign certain programs to certain devices manually.  Just a thought.

Offline Daniel Drysdale at IceTV

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Re: Time differences - network EPG vs Ice EPG
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2011, 12:52:22 PM »
prl,
I'll ask the boss, don't hold your breath though ;)

In all seriousness our in office moto for this year is "Geek free", we want to try and make our service more "Joe Sixpack friendly", having said that I haven't given up hope. I have a heap of development work on the board for this year, some of it really cool, some not.. If I can squeeze in the GeekyAdvanced features I will.

Offline Daniel Drysdale at IceTV

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Re: Time differences - network EPG vs Ice EPG
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2011, 12:54:49 PM »
The hardest part with this stuff is not making it work but coming up with a workable UI that doesn't scare people off and a "story" we can present to the consumer that will make them come on board to use it.

Offline tonydav

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Re: Time differences - network EPG vs Ice EPG
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2011, 01:21:04 PM »
Understand. The whole marketing vs technical side of things.

While I have your "ear" so to speak, is there any way to assign priorities to recordings/series?  Or could this be implemented easily. I find it really frustrating when there is a conflict and something that I really want (or more importantly the wife wants) is missed just so the Beyonwiz can tape some old episode of Big Bang that I might like to watch.

Offline prl

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Re: Time differences - network EPG vs Ice EPG
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2011, 01:26:42 PM »
I agree about the half hour thing. My actual concern in posting this was that if IceTV went to "exact" times - assuming they were available, how they would get around the scenario I discussed above - i.e. a program finishing 1 minute after another one on another network starts.
...
It can't. Which is one reason why I think that the ability to do this that is claimed for Freeview EPG PVRs is rather oversold*. It is in some ways better than padding, but it really doesn't get around the underlying problem of the broadcasters not adhering to their schedules (and the compounding problem of commercial broadcasters not having any sort of ad or promo break between programs).

* And the only Freeview EPG PVR that I've seen any reports of, MagicTV, doesn't seem to do it anyway.

Offline prl

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Re: Time differences - network EPG vs Ice EPG
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2011, 01:35:59 PM »
...
While I have your "ear" so to speak, is there any way to assign priorities to recordings/series?  Or could this be implemented easily. I find it really frustrating when there is a conflict and something that I really want (or more importantly the wife wants) is missed just so the Beyonwiz can tape some old episode of Big Bang that I might like to watch.
There's already some discussion of recording priority in the forum.

The main problem I see with it is what to do with unranked shows. I have about 130 recordings in My Shows. Do I really want to go through and rank them all? Is there even a meaningful ranking? And, of course, a household may have more than one set of rankings. :)

Offline prl

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Re: Time differences - network EPG vs Ice EPG
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2011, 01:44:20 PM »
The hardest part with this stuff is not making it work but coming up with a workable UI that doesn't scare people off and a "story" we can present to the consumer that will make them come on board to use it.
Yes, I agree about the UI.

I'd be happy with a UI that just let me set my order of preference of where the timers for recordings should go. And, of course, an option to select manual or automatic assignment.


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