Author Topic: Serious design flaw in Series recordings definition  (Read 5902 times)

Offline j s

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Serious design flaw in Series recordings definition
« on: May 11, 2008, 10:01:09 AM »
It's possible that this is the only programme name which has this problem (because the same programme name is on more than one Network)

 AFL: 2008 Championship Season  is on both Seven and Ten. Both networks also show the games on their HD channels. If I select "Any Channel" as the series option I'll get two copies of every game but if I select "<channelname>" I will only get half of them (either Seven or Ten) with no way of automatically getting the other games.

There are two ways Interactive could be changed to resolve this design flaw:

1)  Allow more than one "Single Channel" series to be configured for the same programme name.

2) Add "Any SD Channel" and "Any HD channel" to the choices for series definition. This might be an easier option to program.

3) Make the programme names different for each Network.  Ice already does this with News programmes for example.

Another flaw is that Series recordings cannot be specified to record on more than one device - there are several programmes where I like to do this (for later viewing/archiving convenience)
« Last Edit: May 11, 2008, 10:11:13 AM by j s »

Offline richardp

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Re: Serious design flaw in Series recordings definition
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2008, 12:26:59 AM »
I was thinking a similar thing yesterday. While most shows are shown on the SD and HD channels, there are times that something else is shown on HD (eg: IPL cricket on Ten) in the place of the usual show (eg: Rove this Sunday is only on SD, since cricket will be on HD at the same time).

If I had set the series recording to 'Ten HD' only then I would miss Rove this week. If I set it to 'any channel', then I wouldn't miss it this week, but on a normal week where it appears on both channels, I could either end up with it only recording one channel (which seems to prefer Ten (SD) over Ten HD) or two recordings (one for each channel).

I haven't worked out how Ice works this out since sometimes I find only 1 channel set to record, while other times both channels are set to record. I would imagine that Ice should have some way to identify if the same program is showing on both the SD and HD channel and only tell one of them to record. If this is happening, it isn't always working.

The next step requires some sort of priority system where users can specify which channel they want recorded if it is available on both SD and HD channels. In addition to the obvious options for giving priority to SD or HD would be the option to give priority to the first channel to broadcast (some shows, eg: IPL cricket, is shown earlier on HD), although this option would still need to give priority to either SD or HD when both channels are broadcast at the same time.

Offline Marc

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Re: Serious design flaw in Series recordings definition
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2008, 10:42:17 AM »
Thanks guys.

We're discussing this internally to try and work out the best approach. It does seem like something we need to work out though, as the situations you've both listed happen frequently.

Offline j s

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Re: Serious design flaw in Series recordings definition
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2008, 02:28:16 PM »
Compounding my problem described above with AFl games is that if select to record the series on Seven the Interactive will ignore any request to record the games on Ten. The options to record are there and the recording request seems to be accepted. The red icon actually appears against the entry but as soon as I refresh the red icon is gone again. No recording gets created on my Beyonwiz.  I wait several days then eventually created the timers from the EPG on the Wiz. They then appeared in My Upcoming Shows

Offline Spazz

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Re: Serious design flaw in Series recordings definition
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2008, 09:41:21 AM »
Just wondering, its been a few months now, has any progress been made on this issue?  SD and HD programming is diverging and converging from week to week these days.  I'm currently selecting "all channels" then individually deleting double ups.  Is there another way?   ???

Offline KRiSX

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Re: Serious design flaw in Series recordings definition
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2008, 08:25:34 PM »
yeah it'd be nice to see this fixed.... it is the big deal breaker for me buying an icetv subscription... already dropped my trial once... but i'm back due to the iphone app...

i'll purchase 12 months up front if this issue gets fixed

i'm sick of setting a series to record on HD and then it all of sudden gets recorded on HD and SD at the same time! especially annoying with only 2 tuners, please fix!

also i have an issue when i cancel the SD one both go... and then I'm unable to reschedule...

so tempted to just use the current alternative and use WebGuide4 for my scheduling :(

Offline tonymy01

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Re: Serious design flaw in Series recordings definition
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2008, 08:40:05 PM »
Yeah, doing the same for Dexter, everyone raves about how good it looks in HD so doing "all channels", and then deleting the superfulous entry if it has one (when Ten shuffle it around for the F1/MotoGP it is only on the SD channel, but when it isn't shuffled around, it is simulcast on HD & SD).
Regards
Regards
Tony

Beyonwiz DP-S1 & Topfield 5K (using PerlTGD to upload ICE EPG/timers for the 5K, normal ICE interactive for the Wiz).

Offline pandem

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Re: Serious design flaw in Series recordings definition
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2008, 05:23:41 PM »
I'm very pleased to see this subject raised as I find the issue with the AFL program on four channels very frustrating at times. I want to have a favourite on 7 and 10, but to have the option of selecting 7HD or 10HD. At the moment I have to set 10 as the favourite and when I can persuade it I manually select one the other programs.
My preference is I would like to select the channel, day and even the time of day. I guess after using 'teds' for some time the restrictions imposed by ICEtv on favorites it is not a good selling point. (For the slow reader that’s a hint)



Offline Marc

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Re: Serious design flaw in Series recordings definition
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2008, 05:49:35 PM »
Resolving this is still definitely on our to do list.

Offline j s

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Re: Serious design flaw in Series recordings definition
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2008, 10:49:04 AM »
Resolving this is still definitely on our to do list.
Whilst undesirable in the long term simply giving the  Seven and Ten broadcasts slightly different names would have gone a long way to providing a short term workaround.

Of course in four weeks time you'll then have six months to sort it out! 

Offline tonymy01

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Re: Serious design flaw in Series recordings definition
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2008, 11:32:16 AM »
For AFL maybe.   But for another show that juggles between SD and HD a lot I really think it needs sorting out.   In my case this is "Dexter" and MotoGP & F1GP.  I want to record these on HD if at all possible, but in the case of Dexter 90% of the time it has been bumped to SD only so Ten can move F1/MotoGP to an earlier timeslot.   So I have to setup Dexter as "all channels", and then kill the SD timer in the case of both an SD and HD timer on at the same time.
Surely all ICE needs to do in this case is simply have a preference for "if show names are duplex cast on SD & HD, then preference is a: record the HD one only or b: record the SD one only" (or c: record both).   Bonus points to support the same for the Motor racing where the timeslot also changes a little between SD and HD :-)
Regards

Offline pandem

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Re: Serious design flaw in Series recordings definition
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2008, 03:34:04 PM »
In regards to programs that have the same name and occur on more than one channel the need is to resolve the problem of making the selection of the channel more flexiable. If the pull down list had all the channels listed and not just Any Channel or TEN for example.
In four weeks time the issue will go away for this particular program (AFL .... ) but it will happen again, the Olympics were on a possible four channels as well. I like to record Catalyst(ABC1) but this clashes with Inspector REX and The Simpsons. So I record the repeat a few days later on ABC2, in the current configuration this cannot be done.
This lacks a bit of future thinking, It will happen again. So resolve lets the issue now so include in the list all SD and HD channels.
Another thing - How about a Day selection? That will increase the filtering on programs, it would help to resolve my Catalyst issue.
Please remember, so of us like the way teds functions and the comparison is alive and well.

Offline kidhazy

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Re: Serious design flaw in Series recordings definition
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2008, 03:48:09 PM »
pandem,

I think you can already solve your Catalyst issue.  If you only ever record it off ABC2 then search for Catalyst in the guide, find the ABC2 entry, and then set up a series timer for "This channel only".

I think the issue others are facing is a particular show may sometimes be on the HD channel, other times it's on the SD channel, or both.  If we set the timer for "Any channel" then we may end up with double recordings.

Rather than just "any channel" or "this channel" options, we need some type of priority option (eg. "check HD first, then SD" or vice versa) So this way if the show is on say TEN HD it will record it there.  If not, it will check TEN SD for the show.

Thanks,
kidhazy.

Offline richardp

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Re: Serious design flaw in Series recordings definition
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2008, 08:39:00 PM »
To recap what I posted earlier in this topic and to summarise what has been suggested more recently:

The scheduling interface on IceTV needs to allow the user to
  • select the channels to record on - default to any but allow it to be filtered (multi select, eg: Ten, Ten HD and Seven HD)
  • give preference to recordings based on
    • broadcast start time (ie: record the earlier channel)
    • broadcast format (ie: SD or HD)
  • prioiritise the above criteria - should preference be given to start time (if applicable) or format (if preference is given to start time, the earlier screening will record regardless of the format; if preference is given to format (or both formats screen at the same time) then the preferred broadcast format will be recorded regardless of start time)
  • select the days to record the channel on - default to any day but allow it to be filtered (this also allows daily shows to only be recorded on a couple days of the week)

The fact that AFL (and other shows) can have the same name on two different channels is a good thing. This allows the user to set a single series recording for all AFL matches and they can get them all. If they only want channel Ten recorded, they filter it as such.

In the case of Dexter, set it to prefer HD. It will record HD when available and fallback to SD when not available on the HD channel.

In the case of shows in two different timeslots (eg: IPL Cricket back in May), if preference is given to HD, it will record in HD regardless of whether it airs first or second (and only fallback on SD if not available on HD). If preference was instead given to start time, it will record the channel that starts earlier. If both channels start at the same time, then preference will be given based on the HD/SD option instead.

Providing each episode is correctly identified by IceTV's system, all should go well. If the same episode is broadcast on multiple channels, whether it be the same network or not, it has the same ID. The same ID would be used whenever it is rebroadcast, even a year later. If different episodes of the same show are on two different channels, even at the same time, they should have different IDs and therefore both be recorded.

Does everyone agree so far? And does anyone have anything to add or change?


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