Author Topic: autoskip pricing  (Read 17175 times)

Offline DaveD

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Re: autoskip pricing
« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2015, 02:20:47 PM »
This unit is starting to look less and less desirable.
I think I'll stick to my Toppy 2400s for the moment.
Since the Skippa's ad-skipping 'feature' is now an optional extra, there doesn't seem to be much else in it for me.

The tardy and unexpected mention of a subscription for ad-skipping is poor form and may put a few, if not many, potential customers offside. It has certainly put me off.

I rarely have a conflict with 2 tuners but I have a second 2400 in the bedroom to take care of that so the Skippa's third tuner, while desirable, is not a must for me at the moment.
I basically use my units to record and play-back shows.  I sometimes watch a show in the lounge room which has been recorded on the bedroom unit and vice versa.
So any other new 'features' that my Toppy does not have may be of use to other customers but not me.

Even if the ad-skipping was free it sounds like more trouble than it is worth.
A 1 hour program will require an extra 1 hour to remove the ads (from the website...FAQ: A. AutoSkip takes about the same time as the length of a recording.) and it seems (from forum responses) that the unit needs to communicate over the internet to perform this task!
So neither the hardware or on-board software can perform this task independently.   Hardly a feature then!


{sarcasm on}
Maybe there is a battery of cheap overseas operators hammering away at keyboards to create Skippa edit points?
Is there a subscription to use the third tuner.  Just checking!!!
{sarcasm off}

Offline Paul55

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Re: autoskip pricing
« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2015, 02:53:13 PM »
You are only whinging now because you thought you would play it safe and wait.
Well No risk equals No reward.
If i were you id stop whinging and place an order before the price rises again.

I wouldn't be so smug if I were you. If the Skippa fails to appeal to the mass market (because of the 'strange' late inclusion of a sub for skipping the ads - or any other reasons that may arise), the early adapters will the ones being burnt.
PVR buyers tend to be reasonably well informed  about 'problem' machines. Think back to the 'Freeview' FV-L1 model Beyonwiz - it quickly became a hated device and was a real millstone for Beyonwiz for a long time. The only way they were able to get rid of the last batch was to recall them from retailers and re-flash the firmware to make them into a proper (non-Freeview) PVR. They ended up selling them for $80.

Offline IanL-S

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Re: autoskip pricing
« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2015, 03:39:26 PM »
For those who missed out I predict that Skippa with be on Special for $500 not long after general release and we have all the bugs worked out.

One thing I can't help but think about the auto ad skip is I hope it doesn't become too popular. If it does then the TV stations will probably fight back with scrolling ticker ads during the show and picture in picture ads during the show. Not that it would really bother me as I hardly watch any commercial station rubbish already.

My understanding that only promotions for own shows can be on the screen when a program is being shown - no third party advertising. There may be an exception for live sport coverage. However, the ineffectual regulator of TV stations is unlikely to do anything to a proprietor who tries to bend the current regulations. (Bad case of regulatory capture.)

Ian
IceTV: 2xTRF-2400 + 2xTF7100HDPVRt + SKIPPA + T2 + U4
No IceTV: a few Toppys
Synology NAS
Check out the oztoppy wiki and Topfield Aus Forum for Toppy help

Offline csutak40

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Re: autoskip pricing
« Reply #33 on: June 21, 2015, 04:23:31 PM »
I dont think there is anything misleading.
If you have orded a unit under the first 1000 group youll get everything you paid for.
The offer for the next 500 units is clear.
You are only whinging now because you thought you would play it safe and wait.
Well No risk equals No reward.
If i were you id stop whinging and place an order before the price rises again.
No, the first ad did not mention that the autoskip is part of the special offer  (as it proclaimed loudly for the IceTV subscription)  The fact that  it wasn't built into the unit out of the  box wasn't mentioned until this ad.
And no, I am "whinging" because I don't like false advertising, which is what this was, and I would get a bad taste in my mouth, even if I had purchased one already, because I do agree that they  are making  it up as they go, which does not fill me with confidence.
If anything, I am now glad I hadn't jumped in to buy a pig in a poke and yes, I was about to do so.
This may not be a big investment for some of you, but  it is for me
Cheers,
Judy
Windows 7 Media Center; Last Update Feb 20 2006; Beyonwiz T4, T2

Offline csutak40

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Re: autoskip pricing
« Reply #34 on: June 21, 2015, 04:24:43 PM »

To me the AutoSkipping is not of all that much importance.


I agree, it is the principle of the thing that upsets me

Offline juergen

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Re: autoskip pricing
« Reply #35 on: June 21, 2015, 07:01:30 PM »
I was thinking about buying a Skippa so weighed up what was offered at the time against what it would cost me ($399). That didn't work for me so I decided against it.

Now that the initial 1,000 have been sold, there is a new offering that includes a slightly different product (autoskip by subscription) and a new price. So I will consider it again and work out if it is worth it to me. Nobody is forcing me so I don't see what the problem is.

Would anyone who held off buying from the first batch be interested in paying $599 for a Skippa with a lifetime subscription to auto-skip? That is as close as we came to an advertised price for sets after the first 1,000.

Offline Likkie

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Re: autoskip pricing
« Reply #36 on: June 22, 2015, 08:39:51 AM »
I agree that this misinformation stinks but its not really false advertising.  No-one was mislead into paying more for something than they should have.

Even if the fact that this feature was to be subscription based was advertised early on, there were still only 1000 units with the free sub.

I'm pretty happy because I was an early adopter purchased one of the 1000 and the fact they they are now going to be charging for the ad-skip service fills me with confidence.  If they think they can charge a subscription for this feature then it must work pretty well.

I assumed that the Skippa would have some sort of analysis software built-in that identified and marked ads for skipping.  I used to have software for EyeTV which did that and it worked OK most of the time but not great and it was slow. 

Since IceTV are planning on charging a subscription I can only assume that the Skippa will be like the Dish Hopper from the US which has the timings of the ads downloaded after the shows have aired allowing them to skipped.  Potentially much more accurate.

Also if it were just a feature built into the unit, I think they would have trouble justifying charging a fee to turn of a feature and then charging a subscription fee to not turn it off (which seems like extortion to me).

Offline FMB

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Re: autoskip pricing
« Reply #37 on: June 22, 2015, 10:33:38 AM »
I do believe that this is misleading. Not illegal, but certainly misleading. It certainly doesn't instill much confidence. I suspect that, as others have said, IceTV are making this up as they go along. Had they always intended to offer AutoSkip as a subscription from the beginning, it would have been mentioned in the original pre-order offer. Clearly you would include this additional saving as further incentive to buy in the pre-order period.

It also raises another question. IceTV said they are going to sell these units through retail outlets. Really? Consider the following scenario:

Salesperson: We have these six PVR's which all use the FTA EPG and they're all similarly priced. Then we have Skippa which is also around the same prices, but it has a better EPG and ad skipping technology.
Customer: Wow, that's awesome. I hate ads. I'll take that one.
Salesperson: Great. That will be $X. Oh, and after a year is up, you'll also have to pay $99 per year for the EPG and you'll also have to pay $39 per year for the ad skip technology.
Customer: Show me the other ones again.

I'm pretty sure that scenario will play out numerous times across the country. You average FTA viewer likes the 'F' part of FTA and will baulk at paying for an EPG and almost certainly draw a line at paying for ad skipping technology, when they've been hitting the fast forward button for years.

Offline SpocksBeer

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Re: autoskip pricing
« Reply #38 on: June 22, 2015, 10:54:59 AM »
Another "what the hell, Ice?" voice here.

I've plonked down cash for the pre-order (first 1000), but I'm struggling to understand the long-term business model here.  If you're charging an annual fee to basically unlock a firmware feature, people are (rightly so, IMO) going to expect that it works pretty well perfectly almost all the time.  What I've read (read: the information you've released) about AutoSkip indicates it's a best effort scan of recorded material that attempts to detect ads (difficult in Australia because we seem to lack any embedded broadcast markers for ad content).  I should add, I'm fine with this while it remains an included, perpetual, feature of the product.

So either you're offering a much better service than "best effort" for $40 a year, or you're going to charge a perpetual fee for a function the box is designed to do the best it can, regardless of fee.  People might support the former if it's good enough, but will not back the latter.

Either way, you need to explain what's going on here.  I don't want to be left with a dud PVR that has no market base and minimal support due to a nonsensical business model.

Offline Paul1000

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Re: autoskip pricing
« Reply #39 on: June 23, 2015, 10:02:45 PM »
Well, the Skippa will be exposed to the market in due course, and it will either be a good value proposition for buyers or it won't. And IceTV will sell units at the price they set or they won't. And if they don't they'll drop the price or stop selling the units. I guess they reason that $39pa for Autoskip is a reasonable trade for not having to pay for IceTV Sub. Today and forever we all do the maths to make our choices. After all, IceTV has the right to charge anything they like. Does anyone else do Autoskip?  Ciao. Paul

Offline Rat

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Re: autoskip pricing
« Reply #40 on: June 24, 2015, 09:12:38 AM »
Some members here feel the need to remind us that IceTV can do whatever they like in terms of pricing and marketing (as if we didn't realise that) with seemingly the underlying attitude that people should not complain and should just let the market decide, I think you are missing the value of having a forum such as this, and I wonder if IceTV are missing that point also.

What we have here is people willing to spend their time to give instant feedback before the product goes to market, what an opportunity.

It seems that early on IceTV wanted to utilize that opportunity by asking for suggestions for their upcoming product, but somewhere along the line they decided to move away from that concept and just do their own thing. I can see many examples lately where perhaps that decision has not worked out as well as it could have for them. The EPG screenshot thread being just one of them, rather than asking what people wanted from the EPG and getting free feedback from experienced PVR users they just picked one and have found that from feedback now a percentage of people would prefer a different one. Personally I hope they take this on board and give us an option of two or three EPGs to select as we see fit, and due to this forum that may just happen.

They don't seem to be thanking anyone for their constructive criticism (again another missed opportunity) but I do hope they are busily collating all feedback behind the scenes and doing their best to make Skippa meet everyone's needs and expectations.

Criticism is sometimes more valuable than praise, something that the fanboi's don't understand, if we are to be dissuaded from criticising them there is no point in having this forum at all really.

Offline injidup

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Re: autoskip pricing
« Reply #41 on: June 24, 2015, 11:48:58 AM »
For those who missed out I predict that Skippa with be on Special for $500 not long after general release and we have all the bugs worked out.

One thing I can't help but think about the auto ad skip is I hope it doesn't become too popular. If it does then the TV stations will probably fight back with scrolling ticker ads during the show and picture in picture ads during the show. Not that it would really bother me as I hardly watch any commercial station rubbish already.

They already have banner ads. (If you were being sarcastic it was wasted on me).
And the percentage of viewers that will have an IceTv box will be tiny compared to the rest of the viewing public so hardly of great importance. Unless other companies start offering a similar service.

Offline Rat

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Re: autoskip pricing
« Reply #42 on: June 24, 2015, 12:23:52 PM »
No I really wasn't being sarcastic, I'm out of the loop with what is happening on commercial TV, about the only show I watch that is aired on local commercial TV is Modern Family and the episodes I watch are up to date and have no ads at all, it's like magic ;)

I only use our PVR to record SBS and ABC....but my wife and son watch and record some commercial TV so they will be testing the auto skip feature here. I use our PVR to stream media from our PC so I'm more interested to see what I think of Plex + Skippa V's Beyonwiz + FTP

Yeah you are right about the percentage of people using autoskip being small....it never ceases to amaze me that even though I have been spruiking the benefits of PVRs for what seems like a decade I think only a small percentage of people I know use one and most just watch live FTA packed with ads WTF? why? crazy stuff.

Even so I think the stations will be in a panic about the potential.......perhaps they could use scare tactic ads to stop people skipping? "You wouldn't kill a puppy.....so why would you skip ads?" ;D

Offline nis200sx

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Re: autoskip pricing
« Reply #43 on: June 28, 2015, 07:51:04 PM »
No, the first ad did not mention that the autoskip is part of the special offer  (as it proclaimed loudly for the IceTV subscription)  The fact that  it wasn't built into the unit out of the  box wasn't mentioned until this ad.
And no, I am "whinging" because I don't like false advertising, which is what this was, and I would get a bad taste in my mouth, even if I had purchased one already, because I do agree that they  are making  it up as they go, which does not fill me with confidence.

Actually it was clear to those who read between the lines that the pre-order was a bargain. There were 3 balloons indicating 3 benefits of the initial 'pre-order offer':
  • Red outline: Free IceTV for the life of your SKIPPA.
  • Green outline: No Annual Fees - ever!
  • Solid Blue: $399 $599 RRP inc. GST Save $200
The red and green balloons suggested (to me) that the 'Free IceTV" and "No Annual Fees - ever" were 2 separate benefits of the pre-order offer and were subject to change.

The 'pre-order extension offer' has purple and green balloons stating:
  • Purple outline: 1 year AutoSkip Included Valued at $39
  • Green outline: Free IceTV for the life of your SKIPPA.
  • The price isn't in a balloon this time: $449 RRP $599 inc. GST Save $150
Dave

Offline nis200sx

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Re: autoskip pricing
« Reply #44 on: June 28, 2015, 07:58:55 PM »
Wow.......that didn't go well. ...

I'm confused Rat. You post comments sounding like you are out to sabotage skippa... but then you add a comment suggesting you actually ordered your own skippa (or maybe the company you work for ordered the skippa...)


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