Author Topic: Additional storage for Skippa  (Read 7396 times)

Offline Dave at IceTV

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Re: Additional storage for Skippa
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2015, 03:07:30 PM »
"v)  Will any functionality be lost if content is stored on the external USB HDD rather than the internal 1 GB HDD?  (e.g. will ad skipping still work?  full program meta data still retained?)

Currently, yes, meta data, resume points, bookmarks and auto skip points are not moved to the USB drive with the recording. These extra files (or at least 2 of them) are moved with the recording to the USB drive but they are 0 bytes. I believe this will be changed in a future firmware update but I need to confirm this."


If the exported content (i.e. moved from the Skippa internal HDD to other storage) loses the ability to show program summary, synopsis etc., that is a real concern.  Factors which make this even more problematic are the relatively small size of the internal HDD (1 TB), the amount of storage space wasted by pre- and post- padding, and the stated requirement that the HDD should not become more than 95% full. 

Even my ancient T-Box is able to show the meta-data from exported content.  (Ideally, autoskip functionality should also be retained for content exported from the Skippa.)

This could be a deal-breaker.  Any more news on this, Dave? 

I think I was wrong about this. The recording I looked at had 0 byte meta data and navigation files, but others I've got on USB sticks have files with information in them. I don't know if the was firmware version or if I was using a FAT formatted USB stick and that's why the meta data files were empty. They definitely show parental rating and how much of the file you played etc but no information when pressing the info button. I need to test some more with the latest firmware.
cheers

Dave
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Offline kavey8

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Re: Additional storage for Skippa
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2015, 11:31:49 AM »
Thanks, Dave.

Given that the provision of meta-data (program summary, synopsis etc.) for exported content is such a fundamental and essential requirement, any idea of when you will have more info on this?

Offline kavey8

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Re: Additional storage for Skippa
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2015, 02:53:16 PM »
Hi Dave

Don't want to bug you on this, but it's such a fundamental aspect of the unit's operation that I'm hoping we can get an answer quite soon.  Any idea when that might be?

Cheers

Offline kavey8

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* Showstopper / Dealbreaker? * Re: Additional storage for Skippa
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2015, 04:33:21 PM »
Hi Dave and Leon

I'm getting a bit concerned by the lack of further info on this.

I think it has already been established that:

i) Skippa will not allow wasted space from padding to be edited out
ii) this will use significant amounts of disc space
iii) the user guide states that the internal 1TB drive must not be allowed to become more than 95% full
iv) with these factors and multi-channel record capabilities, it is likely that the internal HDD may become full within a matter of weeks for some users
v) many users will then wish to 'export' program content to an external USB hard drive or some other external storage / server.

No real problem so far... except that it was suggested a few weeks ago by Dave that content meta-data may not be included in the exported files - and that this means that simple things like reading program content title, synopsis, summary (timing, original broadcast channel) may not be accessible for exported content.

Presumably, the auto-skip function may also not be available for exported content...?

If the above is correct, then this would appear to be a pretty fundamental shortcoming in the product - a bit of a showstopper, in fact.

I hope that there turns out to be no issue here...but, as I mentioned, I'm concerned by the lack of further information.

What does the design spec for the product say with regard to this, and what have your tests revealed?  Please provide an update - or at least, say what is happening to investigate this.

Thaanks
« Last Edit: August 10, 2015, 04:36:15 PM by kavey8 »

Offline Wayne Richmond

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Re: Additional storage for Skippa
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2015, 06:01:05 PM »
I'm sorry to keep harping on this but my original question still stands - 'Why can't a larger drive be at least an option?'

If the Beyonwiz T4 can come with a 4tb drive, surely the Skippa can have more than 1tb.  And if it did, this whole issue would go away or at least become much less dire.  Who really wants to be stuffing around with moving files between drives anyway?

Offline IanL-S

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Re: Additional storage for Skippa
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2015, 08:40:29 PM »
I'm sorry to keep harping on this but my original question still stands - 'Why can't a larger drive be at least an option?'

If the Beyonwiz T4 can come with a 4tb drive, surely the Skippa can have more than 1tb.  And if it did, this whole issue would go away or at least become much less dire.  Who really wants to be stuffing around with moving files between drives anyway?

The max internal HDD size is dictated by the form factor choosen; the Skippa has 2.5" interal HDD wheras the T4 has a 3.5" HDD. At the presnet time I beleive the max 2.5" AV HDD is 1TB; the largest 2.5" drives are only 2TB. For 3.5" HDD you can easily find 6TB AV dives, and I think there are 8TB models. Once the 2.5" for factor was decided on, the 1TB limit was imposed by what is available in the market.

Ian
IceTV: 2xTRF-2400 + 2xTF7100HDPVRt + SKIPPA + T2 + U4
No IceTV: a few Toppys
Synology NAS
Check out the oztoppy wiki and Topfield Aus Forum for Toppy help

Offline Wayne Richmond

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Re: Additional storage for Skippa
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2015, 07:23:26 AM »
Quote
The max internal HDD size is dictated by the form factor choosen; the Skippa has 2.5" interal HDD wheras the T4 has a 3.5" HDD. At the presnet time I beleive the max 2.5" AV HDD is 1TB; the largest 2.5" drives are only 2TB. For 3.5" HDD you can easily find 6TB AV dives, and I think there are 8TB models. Once the 2.5" for factor was decided on, the 1TB limit was imposed by what is available in the market.

In that case that was a very poor and somewhat inexplicable decision for a device that could have easily housed the larger drives!   :(


Wayne

Offline FMB

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Re: Additional storage for Skippa
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2015, 08:45:57 AM »
I'm not sure I understand the problem here. I've been using my TiVo for years now. It has a 160Gb drive and I've never run into problems with lack of storage. Sure, TiVo automatically deletes files after a certain period, but I've never had it delete a show I haven't watched.

In reality, those shows or series you've recorded and want to keep, do you ever actually watch them again? Also, these are shows you recorded from FTA so there's a very high probability they will be repeated (repeatedly). For those shows you seem to think need to be stored forever, there is an option to save them to an external drive which you can lock away and never look at again.

The problem isn't Skippa, it's you. Come to terms with it, learn to manage your content and try not to blame IceTV for your obsession.

Offline JPP

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Re: Additional storage for Skippa
« Reply #23 on: August 11, 2015, 09:18:57 AM »
I'm not sure I understand the problem here. I've been using my TiVo for years now. It has a 160Gb drive and I've never run into problems with lack of storage. Sure, TiVo automatically deletes files after a certain period, but I've never had it delete a show I haven't watched.

In reality, those shows or series you've recorded and want to keep, do you ever actually watch them again? Also, these are shows you recorded from FTA so there's a very high probability they will be repeated (repeatedly). For those shows you seem to think need to be stored forever, there is an option to save them to an external drive which you can lock away and never look at again.

The problem isn't Skippa, it's you. Come to terms with it, learn to manage your content and try not to blame IceTV for your obsession.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I've had various Toppies for more years than I care to remember and never had more than 500GB drives in them. I manage space occasionally by deleting old recordings that I know I will never have the time to watch either again or for the first time.
Phil.
Beyonwiz T2, DVDO Duo Video Processor

Offline kavey8

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Re: Additional storage for Skippa
« Reply #24 on: August 11, 2015, 09:47:06 AM »
"For those shows you seem to think need to be stored forever, there is an option to save them to an external drive which you can lock away and never look at again."

I also believe it is a great pity that the Skippa does not use a 3.5 inch HDD.

However, the issue I raised was not about the ability or inability to export to an external drive - in my book, that has to be a given, otherwise the machine is a not worth considering.  (Imagine the situation where you have more than one person in the household making recordings across multiple channels using three tuners, some recordings in HD, with substantial amounts of space wasted due to pre- and post-content padding which cannot be edited out - the internal HDD *will* fill up.)

The real concern I raised is the potential lack of meta-data for the exported content - so that several items on the internal HDD which are listed as, say:

David Attenborough in Africa - Episode 1 - Elephants
David Attenborough in Africa - Episode 2 - Big Cats
Q & A - 10-Aug-15
Insight - 11-Aug-15

become, after export, listed as:

3845gdnef.mp4
375534egq.mp4
427043e73.mp4
264400000.mp4

This is a simplified, hypothetical example (not the actual format of the meta-data or the file names, just an example).  Other meta-data, such as summary information, might also be lost).

Presumably the auto-skip function depends on meta-data, so that may also not be available for exported content...?

Initially Dave at IceTV said he though that no meta-data was exported to external storage, then there seemed to be a suggestion that some of it *is* exported, but that some of the meta-data files are in fact empty.

I'd find it amazing if this degree of functionality were lost for exported content - and really hope we can get some clarity on this soon (please!).


« Last Edit: August 11, 2015, 10:27:21 AM by kavey8 »

Offline IanL-S

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Re: Additional storage for Skippa
« Reply #25 on: August 11, 2015, 09:56:00 AM »
I'd find it amazing if this degree of functionality were lost for exported content - and really hope we can get some clarity on this soon (please!).

Definitely need clarification on this point. It also appears that you can only move recordings to the external HDD one at a time which is decidedly inconvenient.

Ian

Offline csutak40

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Re: Additional storage for Skippa
« Reply #26 on: August 11, 2015, 09:37:08 PM »

The problem isn't Skippa, it's you. Come to terms with it, learn to manage your content and try not to blame IceTV for your obsession.

Well, anyone that wasn't "obsessed" wouldn't bother buying a PVR with a large (supposedly, until you find out that half of it would be taken up with padding) HDD.  In fact, you probably wouldn't bother buying a PVR, period.

I for one, wouldn't want any PVR to automatically delete anything.  I have my own "system", which includes immediately removing the padding from any show that I plan to watch later.  Then I watch the shows from the commercial channels first, as they have ads, so take up more room.  That doesn't mean I don't want to watch the shows I've recorded from the ABC, just they come last.  I also save up series and tend to binge watch those.

If I am running  short on space, then I have a look to see what's on the drive and may delete some that I am not that interested in. I would be really annoyed if it decided to delete things for me.
ATM, I have a 750 gig HDD and that rarely happens.  Just checked, have  498Gig spare ATM.   :D
I still don't understand why my ancient Toppy 5k can do stuff that a modern PVR can't
Cheers,
Judy
Windows 7 Media Center; Last Update Feb 20 2006; Beyonwiz T4, T2

Offline warkus

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Re: Additional storage for Skippa
« Reply #27 on: August 11, 2015, 09:49:18 PM »
I think you should just give up on purchasing any PVR to be honest.

Sounds like that toppy 5000 is pretty much perfect! Get it repaired and keep it... Much better than any other PVR out there by the sounds of it.

Not sure why you are even looking for a replacement.

Mark

Offline csutak40

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Re: Additional storage for Skippa
« Reply #28 on: August 12, 2015, 03:17:38 AM »

Sounds like that toppy 5000 is pretty much perfect! Get it repaired and keep it... Much better than any other PVR out there by the sounds of it.

Not sure why you are even looking for a replacement.

Mark

I never said it was perfect.  As you know, it only has two tuners and doesn't do HD. And, it is getting rather long in the tooth. ;D  There is a time when repairing something is like throwing good money after bad.

What I did say (and I'm not alone) that it seems that the Skippa doesn't do quite a few things that I presumed was a given and/or were originally promised.

And I have also said that it is disappointing that most of the questions are not answered by IceTV.  They have been testing it with staff and families for about a month now, so surely, someone should know the machine back to front by now

I am a long-standing and happy customer of IceTV, but am an not happy with the present state of affairs.  I didn't ask any questions until I got a look at the manual and then, basically, I just asked questions to make sure I haven't misunderstood the manual.  The silence makes me presume that I hadn't

I don't believe I am being disloyal buy voicing my concerns.

I don't know you Mark, except by reputation.  I have no doubt that you know a lot about PVRs,  but it seems to me (could be wrong) that you are more interested in the hardware then the software. 

I am interested in both and I don't think that my questions and concerns are unreasonable, there is really no cause for sarcasm. I am not the only person asking similar questions - they include IanL-S, kavey8 just recently.

Offline warkus

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Re: Additional storage for Skippa
« Reply #29 on: August 12, 2015, 09:36:41 AM »
I wasn't being sarcastic.

Actually from how you describe it and how it seems to suit your particular needs / situation / usage / do what you require, it's a perfect fit for you with the taps installed. You genuinely should look at getting it repaired, a replacement PSU for it is only about $50, because nothing new on the market seems to tick all of the boxes on your list, or have all the features you need like that machines does, yet anyway.

And no I'm not just concerned about just hardware or more concerned about hardware.

I already pre ordered it, that's why it's called a pre order, you do so knowing the risks, that it's not been real world tested yet, so im just waiting patiently like most others until it arrives. There is no point in my opinion guessing what it can and can't do until I play with it and see for it myself, nor is there any point in rubbishing or knocking icetv who are probably under a lot of pressure to get it released at the moment.

Your questions are not unreasonable, I didn't say they were Judy, but time to respond on here to everyone's posts is probably not the priority right now for icetv.

« Last Edit: August 12, 2015, 09:42:23 AM by warkus »


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