IceTV Forum

IceTV Guide for IceTV enabled PVRs => Windows XP Media Center Edition => Topic started by: aw_claritas on September 29, 2005, 05:18:16 PM

Title: HD Channels
Post by: aw_claritas on September 29, 2005, 05:18:16 PM
Hi,

I see that HD channel listings are now available.  I have been testing with them recently (with MCE + Update Rollup 2) and found that it never seems to download any listings for ABC HD  ??  Is ABC HD available ?

Also, the listings that are available seem quite sporadic in terms of coverage.  ie. get quite a few gaps with 'unknown programme' - I guess this is something you are working on to get a more complete picture.

Cheers

Andy
Claritas Technology
www.claritas.com.au
Title: Re: HD Channels
Post by: Shane on September 29, 2005, 07:34:44 PM
I don't know what's up with ABC HD, but the way these channels are supposed to work is that only the HD content shows up in them - anything that isn't flagged as HD is shown as "unknown program".

This is by design, as the majority of stuff that sits there otherwise is either SD upconverted or HD demos.

Regards,
Shane.
Title: Re: HD Channels
Post by: Daniel Hall at IceTV on September 30, 2005, 10:05:33 AM
Shane is correct, only the shows we know are in HD will be shown on the HD channel.

The reason nothing is showing on ABC HD at the moment is that none of the shows on ABC are marked as being in HD.
Title: Re: HD Channels
Post by: Shane on September 30, 2005, 10:23:30 AM
Daniel,

I was having a play with Seven HD last night, and wanted to know whether it is possible to mark the shows slightly differently than their SD counterparts.

Reason is that when I set a series recording to record on any channel (not a specific channel) MCE gets confused and won't record either.

I have it set to any channel as I find that when the intermittent issue of the channels being reset and guide data loss happens (once in a blue moon, but it does happen), when I add lisitings back to the channels, sometimes the "specific channel" set series recordings don't work and need to be deleted and reset.

So - something like "Alias" on SD, and "Alias HD" on the HD channel?

Regards,
Shane.
Title: Re: HD Channels
Post by: pvogel on October 05, 2005, 05:15:36 PM
Sane has pointed out that MCE gets confused if there is a show with identical names on both SD and HD guide channels:

...when I set a series recording to record on any channel (not a specific channel) MCE gets confused and won't record either.

and suggests we append HD to the title in the HD guide:
...- something like "Alias" on SD, and "Alias HD" on the HD channel?

Thisseems like a good idea but I would like to hear thoughts of other users as to possible undeesired consequences if we do this.

Thanks

Peter
Title: Re: HD Channels
Post by: Daniel Hall at IceTV on October 07, 2005, 03:07:22 PM
I've just done some tests in the office while using both the HD and SD channel data.

I couldn't seem to replicate this issue on our test machine.

I scheduled a show that is on both the HD and SD channels for a series record and set it to anytime on any channel, when checking through the upcoming recordings in the guide it always chose the SD show (which is the channel that it was originally setup to record from) and it made a note against the listing of the HD show that said that show would be recorded on the SD channel.

Did you encounter the problem while using Update Rollup 2 or not ?
Title: Re: HD Channels
Post by: Shane on October 16, 2005, 07:43:20 PM
Daniel,

The problem with it not recording is gone, but I'd still like to be able to definitively set an SD or HD recording, and with two channels showing exactly the same thing at exactly the same time I just can't trust my series recordings to work whilst I am away or travelling.

Love to have HD appended to the title if possible.

Oh, and can we get the MCE HD logo removed from the SD channels? This is wrong anyway a they are not actually showing the HD contect on the SD channel, so it shouldn't be marked as such.

Thanks for the great work.
Shane.
Title: Re: HD Channels
Post by: Nudge on February 09, 2006, 10:32:58 AM
Hey Guys,

I know this is an older post but thought it may be appropriate to post here.

The "HD" symbol that is shown on SD channels in the guide, I take this as meaning that the show is also available on the channels HD equivalent - is this correct?

Also does MCE use the "HD" symbol or marker on SD channels to estimate the future HDD space needed to record the programme. It seems that MCE is allowing twice the space for shows set up to record from SD channels.

Later,

Nudge
Title: Re: HD Channels
Post by: dJOS on April 28, 2006, 11:22:55 PM
Howdy ICE folk.

My MCE box is not showing alot of HD shows on 9HD. For example Without a Trace (http://members.optusnet.com.au/~derekjosborn/pics/ICE%20MCE%20No%20HD%20Listings%20on%20Nine.jpg), It is clearly marked "HD" in the Description for the SD channel but there is no EPG entry.

One other issue is when you are using the MCE search function to setup a timer for a show that does have both a HD & SD channel EPG entry, you have to double check which channel is the HD one because both description have the "HD" symbol.

eg Ocean's 11 Descriptions: Ocean's 11 SD Description (http://members.optusnet.com.au/~derekjosborn/pics/ICE%20MCE%20O11%20SD%20Listing%20on%20Nine.jpg) & Ocean's 11 HD Description (http://members.optusnet.com.au/~derekjosborn/pics/ICE%20MCE%20O11%20HD%20Listing%20on%20Nine.jpg) The only difference between the 2 listings is the channel id, personally I'd prefer that the "HD" symbol is reserved for the descriptions of HD broadcasts only on the actual HD channel.
Title: Re: HD Channels
Post by: Russell at IceTV on April 29, 2006, 11:34:45 AM
Hi djos,

Thanks for letting us know about this -- you actually found a bug related to all HD shows.  I believe it should be fixed now, so if you tell your MCE to download the guide again, you should see quite a few more HD shows scheduled.

Thanks again,
Russell
Title: Re: HD Channels
Post by: dJOS on April 29, 2006, 11:45:07 AM
Nice work Russell, thanks for being so darn fast!  8)
Title: Re: HD Channels
Post by: Russell at IceTV on April 29, 2006, 12:45:48 PM
Oh, sorry, forgot to mention...  we'll discuss your idea of only marking the HD shows on the HD channels as well and give it some thought.  I think there are a couple of issues to think about there, but I see your point.

Russell
Title: Re: HD Channels
Post by: dJOS on April 29, 2006, 12:54:32 PM
Thanks again Russell, I must say that the "ICE Service" is worth evry cent.  :)

Btw, along those discussion lines, It would be nice to have a full EPG for the HD Channels with the "HD" Symbol only appearing when the show is from a genuine HD source. I realise that you would then have to guess when CH7 is going to use their faux HD channel to play their "HD" demo loop tho and other issues but it sure would be nice.
Title: Re: HD Channels
Post by: renbry on July 11, 2006, 10:11:59 PM
I've noticed "The O.C" doesn't show up in TenHD's lineup every week which means i have to schedule to record SD and HD incase HD isn't showing up that week. No lame jokes about O.C please  ;D

Matt
Title: Re: HD Channels
Post by: poedgirl on July 14, 2006, 12:04:41 AM
This is the main reason I don't want to upgrade from my trial to a subscription. If shows are broadcast on the HD channels, the EPG should know what they are. Also, the SD channels shouldn't show HD when those channels don't do HD.
Title: Re: HD Channels
Post by: dJOS on July 14, 2006, 08:56:21 AM
If shows are broadcast on the HD channels, the EPG should know what they are. Also, the SD channels shouldn't show HD when those channels don't do HD.

I completely agree!
Title: Re: HD Channels
Post by: philzgr8 on July 18, 2006, 09:46:33 AM
Personally I think the HD logo question and the question of how listings are displayed on HD channels when programs are broadcast as SD is an interesting one. It took me a little while after switching over from FreeXMLTV and BladeRunner to get used to the notion that the HD channels will not have a listing if the program is only shown in SD. It now actually makes more sense to me than what I had before because with the previous solution I couldn't actually trust that what was shown on the SD channel would be also broadcast on its HD equivalent. For example ABCHD and Channel 7 frequently had different content on HD to their SD equivalents. If you think about it there is really no need to see an entry for the HD channel if it is only the same content that is shown on the SD channel and it is shown in SD. Why would I record the HD channel if it isn't HD content? As for the logo, well I find the fact that it shows up on the SD channel to be quite helpful. The truth is that I may actually have missed the fact that the program is also broadcast in HD format and seeing the logo there alerts me to it. I think in the end it's just a question of getting your head around a different way of thinking and personally I'm quite happy with it the way it is now.

In the longer term I have to wonder wouldn't it be nice if MCE allowed you to group channels and show only the highest quality content for each channel group (ie. ABC/ABCHD). Now that would really be something worthwhile!
Cheers,

Phil
Title: Re: HD Channels
Post by: Jason W on July 18, 2006, 07:52:02 PM
In the longer term I have to wonder wouldn't it be nice if MCE allowed you to group channels and show only the highest quality content for each channel group (ie. ABC/ABCHD). Now that would really be something worthwhile!

That would be a neat way of doing things (grouping LCNs).

I run MythTV on my network and the channel priority feature allows me to preference HD showings over SD when using "record on any channel" as I mentioned on theNo ABC HD guide listing (http://www.icetv.com.au/forum/index.php?topic=204.msg1232#msg1232) thread. It will be interesting to see what Microsoft does here.
Title: Re: HD Channels
Post by: poedgirl on July 18, 2006, 09:12:36 PM
For example ABCHD and Channel 7 frequently had different content on HD to their SD equivalents.

The problem we are talking about is channels like 9 and 10 that don't have demo loops and the show is in fact broadcast. The problem is that it is shown as "Unknown" in the guide.

I feel that the data should be shown if the channel is broadcasting it.
Title: Re: HD Channels
Post by: Russell at IceTV on July 19, 2006, 03:43:49 AM
Hi guys,

I agree that this is an interesting (and difficult) problem.  Phil made several good points, most of which were the basis behind why we chose to do it they way we do.  One of the biggest problems at the time we researched this was that there was no consistency for what the various channels showed when a program wasn't available in HD.  Some of them showed the SD version upscaled to HD, some showed a demo loop of HD programming, and some showed a logo.  And to make it worse, they weren't even consistent about their rules -- sometimes they'd change depending on the time of day or day of week.  We decided that the absolute worst case would be if we said a program would be on at a certain time and someone ended up recording an hour's worth of logo, when they could have recorded it on on the SD channel instead.  For that reason, we felt the only safe thing to do was to only tell you about shows on the HD channel when we were certain they'd be shown.  And showing the HD logo on the SD channels was also as Phil said, just to give you an indication that it was also available on the HD channel if you wanted to record it there instead (in case you spent most of your time in the guide on the SD channels).

The MythTV feature of it automatically picking which channel to record based on whether it's an SD or HD channel is very interesting.  Maybe this type of thing could be done in PIMP -- we'll have to investigate.

But I wonder if the rules the stations are using are a bit more consistent now.  Does anyone watch enough HD programming that they know for sure what the rules are for the various channels when the HD version isn't available?

Russell
Title: Re: HD Channels
Post by: philzgr8 on July 19, 2006, 07:55:45 AM
Unfortunately I watch just enough to know that I have no idea what they are doing.  >:(

Personally I'd love a feature in PIMP (which I set up this morning before coming to work,) which allows me to prioritise HD content over SD but to take that a step further it might be worth considering a user setting in pimp where the guide only shows the HD content if it is broadcast on both HD and SD. That might actually be the way to implement it.
Cheers,

Phil
Title: Re: HD Channels
Post by: poedgirl on July 19, 2006, 05:42:23 PM
I know for a fact that 9 and 10 always broadcast the same shows on the HD channel as they do on the SD channel. 7 broadcasts the same as SD on their HD channel after 5pm on weekdays, not sure about weekends tho. As for the other channels, I don't really know. I can't get ABC at all here and I don't watch much SBS.
Title: Re: HD Channels
Post by: poedgirl on August 22, 2006, 04:37:13 PM
Is anyone actually going to do anything about this or is it just going to fade away into the distance?
Title: Re: HD Channels
Post by: philzgr8 on August 24, 2006, 08:04:55 AM
Is anyone actually going to do anything about this or is it just going to fade away into the distance?
I think that this will probably fade into oblivion because not everyone agrees on what, if anything should be done. Unless the networks were to actually publish their policy on this IceTV would put themselves at risk if they implemented it since there is no guarantee it would be correct and subscribers rely on the info they get from their EPG.
Title: Re: HD Channels
Post by: nac6 on September 05, 2006, 10:57:49 AM
Not sure if this has been noticed.

A friend noticed that when an SD program has the HD logo MCE thinks it's HD so it allocates twice as much disk space required. He therefore often gets warnings that there isn't the disk space available to complete the recording.
Title: Re: HD Channels
Post by: Shane on September 05, 2006, 04:14:43 PM
Not sure if this has been noticed.

A friend noticed that when an SD program has the HD logo MCE thinks it's HD so it allocates twice as much disk space required. He therefore often gets warnings that there isn't the disk space available to complete the recording.

REALLY interesting. I'm going to check this out as I have had messages come up like this in the past with plenty of HDD space for an SD program.

If this is the case - Ice are going to have to change it so that HD flags are only on the HD channel content, not the SD.

Thanks,
Shane.
Title: Re: HD Channels
Post by: impact on September 06, 2006, 10:57:37 AM
I had always noticed the time / disk space to be inaccurate from day one. I put it down to the fact that as MCE does not officially support dvb-t that the calculations were based on an analogue setup recording....

Having never bothered to build an analogue tv card MCE system, I am guessing that the recordings were smaller in size or a different scale than what I have always experienced with SD / HD. Thus the calculations were always far out!

Just my thoughts - as I have never bothered with the estimates.... My MCE rig has 300Gb for its recordings, and if I cant watch it in that time, then its probably not important enough for me anyway.... (Of course I use crunchie to keep the stuff I want to keep - but then move that stuff over to my 3Tb File Server.....)