IceTV Forum

IceTV Guide for IceTV enabled PVRs => Windows Vista Media Center => Topic started by: timble on March 30, 2007, 09:59:33 PM

Title: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: timble on March 30, 2007, 09:59:33 PM
Hi Daniel,

Spoke to you last week about the server 500 error message and at the same time we spoke of the losing channels issue.

Unfortunately, the problem isn't related to changing channels from their default channel order. I think it's realted to PID and stations changing the name that's embedded in the data stream.

For example. When I did my last system scan, some two weeks ago, channel 3 would appear as "SBS." ie: the default name that appears after channel scan.

Monday morning, notice guide is haywire. SBS on channel 3 has gone but other SBS Channels eg: digital radio have suddenly appeared in place of Prime, SC Ten etc. It's totally screwed up.

So, I rescan and notice that Channel 3 now appears as "SBS Digital 1". ie: the default name that appears after channel scan.

I'm sure it's this discrepancy, channel 3 changing from "SBS" to "SBS Digital 1" that is causing problems.

I know other people also have issues with Seven/Prime. I'm in Newcastle and it's only SBS that's the problem.

As you know from the xpmediacenter forum, this is a widespread problem and it's getting a lot of people offside. (Both with Vista and Ice.) I know you mentioned that your system has been stable for a month, but this isn't what's happening out in the community. I'm sure you have some contacts at Microsoft, and I think it's time to get them on the case.

IceTV and Vista MC are great combo but this is a serious issue and has the potential to really stifle Vista Media Center takeup.

I have 3 Vista MCs and will monitor closely over next few weeks, to try and find more clues.

Thanks again for your time,


Tim Farrell
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: ajbcs on April 05, 2007, 08:40:58 AM
Is this being followed up?

I and many other users are losing Seven (7) and it's being replaced with several other Seven channels (7 Digital 1,2,3 and guide).

It's very annoying...

If the guide data matched the scanned channel names, when Seven changed over the guide data would stay with the channel (this would be a good temporary fix)
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: s3070416 on April 05, 2007, 09:24:47 PM
I'm consistently experiencing the same problem with SBS on Vista in Canberra. Any work around would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: impact on April 06, 2007, 12:05:15 PM
Its not an Icetv problem... it occurs with any of our epg providers for dvb-t users... Is there some kind of pattern? Maybe or maybe not... It happens at different times for differing users, and it does not happen at all for a large number of users....

Hence - if it was a station changing pids or something like that - it should happen to everyone at the same time... Yet for me, the problem occurs on a Saturday, and others a Thursday... I get the problem on a Sat/Sun/Mon and then nothing for a week - others get it 3 times a day...

I know I do not get the problem if I am not connected to the LAN/ Internet... but thats too inconveniant... Each theory we have had was shot down in testing so far... ie. suggesting the names in the EPG data should change and is the cause - apparanlty not true....

The only test I have not seen anyone do - mainly because it is inconveniant again... Does this problem occur if you do not use any EPG data set up at all... Might have to find a machine and try this one ??? That would be interesting to know !!

Lets not shoot Icetv for - its their responsibility to fix it - and I know you have not been doing it, but it is really out of their control and hands - we need MS to recognise the problem and have it addressed asap.


So what have I done, finally got before and after images of the internal MCE stuff... data saved from the initial scan, where everything is nice, and data after everything is stuffed up... And a few steps in between - I have sent this off to 'friendly-foes' in Redmond who have agreed to look into it - maybe we might get somewhere... maybe not...

Over at http://www.xpmediacentre.com.au/community/vista-media-center-software/17078-loosing-channels-guide-disappearing-icetv-vista-possibly-also-mce2005-3.html#post135632 I have detailed a little more about what I did, and have also included some screen shots that help illustrate the problem for those not quite familiar with what an annoying little SH@#*$ of a thing it has become!!!
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: timble on April 07, 2007, 11:08:10 AM
Yeah, Ice need to quiz Microsoft. It's in both their interests to have this fixed asap as it's turning people off Vista Media Center, which is real shame.
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: Blackdog on April 09, 2007, 07:38:00 AM
I too am experiencing the problem of the channel 7 guide going out of wack, as per my post at meadiacentre .com
"I only experience the problem with channel 7.I run VMCE ICE/Pimp(2.0.0.6). I have found that if you select one of the channels that has reappeared with out touching anything, and you then hit the guide button the guide will right itself. Sometimes a reboot fixes it.
Its annoying considering that XPMCE it was a rare occurrence but VMCE seems to do it every couple of weeks.
I have some M$ updates waiting to install i might try those and update Ice/Pimp to the newer version.
p.s I had also stopped the update service when i set Ice up in the originally."
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: Shane on April 10, 2007, 11:22:18 AM
Hi everyone,

Thought I'd update this here as well... I posted to Jessica Zahn from MS Redmond in her "Ask Jessica" forums over at The Green Button (http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/thread/181054.aspx).

Her response is as follows:

"Do you know who in Redmond the Aussies are talking to?

It does sound to me like our background scanning could be causing a problem by dis-associating channels from guide data when we scan information about the channels. I can follow up with whoever here is already working on this - is it possible for you to ask who it is on my team? (I'm guessing my team...if it's not, that would be even weirder.)"

I've updated her with info on who we've contacted so far, and I'll keep this thread updated as things progress.

Regards,
Shane.

Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: impact on April 12, 2007, 11:40:43 PM
Just a quick update - the logging I have been doing with Microsoft over the last week or so - is showing something of interest...

The logfile is definately showing that background scanning IS occuring between 6-6:30pm each night, despite all the hacks to turn things off...

Now so far, with logging on, I have had no Guide issues, so hopefully the guide will stuff up tomorrow as per scheduled, and the log file may finally give Microsoft some useful information to get this problem fixed.

I am still working with my contacts at MS, Jessica as mentioned in the post above by Shane, has not made any further contact - despite my sending her a huge amount of information and getting her and my contact talking together...

Hopefully we are a huge step closer to fixing the problem... I'll keep you informed.
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: kjfarrell on April 16, 2007, 10:17:33 AM
Just to show the seriousness of the issue, I also am loosing SBS 3 and gaining unwanted channels.  :'(
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: kjfarrell on April 21, 2007, 10:43:42 PM
Any updates?
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: cbo100 on April 22, 2007, 09:47:25 AM
I would love to hear an update on this, but for what it's worth, I have this bit of info to add:

I previously got the problem twice where SBS on Channel 3 would disappear and 2-3 other SBS radio/SBS2 channels would appear. Channel 7 never had a problem.

Last week when that happened for the second time, I decided to try a different SBS channel (one of the ones that appeared instead of No 3). So I hid No. 3 and enabled No. 31 with the SBS guide and theres been no problems since then with SBS.

Until yesterday, when channel 7 decided to disappear and replace itself with 5-6 other channel 7s. So maybe it could be related to which No.  of the channel you decide to leave enabled when you go to hide unused channels?

I'm in Sydney and previously I was using:

2 - ABC
3 - SBS
7
9
10
21 - ABC2

Last week I switched to:

2 - ABC
7
9
10
21 - ABC2
31 - SBS

Which seems to have stopped the SBS problem and replaced it with the 7 problem.

So I'm going to try putting Seven on 71 and see what that does. And another thing that might help is that the problem always happens at around 10.30pm but it can be any day (Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday so far)
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: philzgr8 on April 23, 2007, 09:11:45 AM
Ok I would like to say this to the people here at IceTV. I am now into my third subscription period with IceTV and I had planned to move from 3 month to annual subscriptions on my next renewal but I am now rethinking. Yes I know it has been said that the issue with the guide screwing up is not the fault of IceTV and I'm not disagreeing with that. What I do want responded to is this: As a long time user of XPMCE and with the benefit of experience I deferred my move to Vista knowing that there could be problems. One of my main criteria was that I must have a working and reliable EPG otherwise the move was definitely not worthwhile for me. OK so I waited until Ice announced that they had a working solution for Vista and not just a beta. With most of my other concerns now addressed I decided about a week and a half ago to move to Vista in the belief that all of the problems had been resolved. Now having relied on Ice's statements about Vista compatibility I find that I do not have a relieable EPG and as far as I'm concerned that's not good enough. In my opinion IceTV should extend the subscriptions of all those subscribers who relied on their announcement in moving to Vista. The extension should be as long as it takes to ensure that the guide works reliably as would reasonably have been expected from Ice's statements.

Your response is eagerly awaited!
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: kjfarrell on April 25, 2007, 06:13:27 AM
Yes I know it has been said that the issue with the guide screwing up is not the fault of IceTV and I'm not disagreeing with that.

I am, who's fault is it then. Microsoft? Their guide works fine in other countries.

This needs a fix, I just don't see anyone rushing to the party.  >:(
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: lukeronalds on April 25, 2007, 10:35:28 AM
I agree, regardless of what the cause of the issue is (either on Microsoft or IceTV's part) it is the IceTV product / service that is not working as expected and thus IceTV needs to resolve the issue.
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: impact on April 25, 2007, 12:46:05 PM
You guys deserve an update... (Been really busy - wife in hospital, me going crazy with 3 kids during the day....)

The logging I did for MS, has been supplied to them. From my untrained eye it looks very interesting;
- I can see nearly every hour, processes are scanning and looking for changes in the dvb-t channel lineup
- And when the guide mucks up the log file is showing that it has found new services for channel 7 and/or SBS

Now - what makes it think there is new services ? And why does it corrupt the channel lineup. The service it finds is already in the lineup - so there is no need to add it !!! There appears to be no change to PID / SID etc... So its strange.

The problem is definately appearing to be a MS problem and not an Ice one...

So I am asking for MS to fix it or give us a way of turning off this background scanning so it does not pretend to find new channels...

The catch - its not a high priority for MS (Australia small market, other DVB-T countries not experiencing it) - and as yet my contacts have only passed it on to the programmers - who have not had time to analyse what is going on.

To add to this, the programmers have been busy with other higher priorities in the last couple of weeks - they are all working on a deadline (not said what) and working till small hours of the morning (sound famiiar if you work in the IT industry!!!). One could guess that it relates to the MS announcement of looking for Beta Testers ? But who knows....

I am hoping that in the next week, we may have someone look at the supplied logs, relate it back to their code, and identify the problem and a fix. Remembering though any fix will still be weeks and weeks away while it goes through their testing phases...

Not good news, but not totally bad - MS should now have enough info to address the issue, and its just a matter of hours in the day type scenario...

I'll keep you informed of what I know...

Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: philzgr8 on April 26, 2007, 11:48:13 AM
Good work impact. Thanks for the update.
Cheers,

Phil
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: Nomad on April 26, 2007, 12:27:06 PM
A bit more info for you to pass on Impact.

I use Websceduler for most recording on an XP machine, for the last 2 weeks I have set up to record 24 Ch 7 Wednesday nights both on SD and HD channel, just after 24 has finished on Ch7 (23:34:19 to be precise) both weeks the HD capture has failed for no apparent reason.  SD sails along fine and stops at correct time.  According to the capture engine there is no data but signal strength is OK.

Now for the link to Vista, I set up a record of 24 HD only on MCE, Guide was fine when I put the machine in standby. It did as it was told woke up recorded for 90 minutes and shutdown.  When I started the MCE this morning the Guide was messed up on Ch7.  Looking at the recorded show there is a small stutter at 21:34 which I reckon is Ch7 doing something and bang there goes the guide.

Not much to go on but I am pretty sure you have watching or recording the channel for the Guide to mess up.  For example I hardly ever watch SBS live and have only seen one corruption and that was after a live session.

rgds Damon 
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: jtrembath on April 26, 2007, 06:22:18 PM
Yes I too lose 7 Adelaide on a regular basis, but now SBS 1 & 2 are diappearing with SBS radio on the guide. Also is annoying is when this happens I have to regularly re input future recordings again. Channel Id must change each time I search channels and re-edit. Family is getting fed up! Also have set up several friends hon]me theatre with Vista. Now I get calls from them also. So for now no more Ice with Vista until it's stable (at least 3 months without a hitch). This is not production quality. Don't know how other platforms are going?
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: philzgr8 on April 27, 2007, 12:00:00 PM
It might be nice to get a reply from Ice on this!
Ok I would like to say this to the people here at IceTV. I am now into my third subscription period with IceTV and I had planned to move from 3 month to annual subscriptions on my next renewal but I am now rethinking. Yes I know it has been said that the issue with the guide screwing up is not the fault of IceTV and I'm not disagreeing with that. What I do want responded to is this: As a long time user of XPMCE and with the benefit of experience I deferred my move to Vista knowing that there could be problems. One of my main criteria was that I must have a working and reliable EPG otherwise the move was definitely not worthwhile for me. OK so I waited until Ice announced that they had a working solution for Vista and not just a beta. With most of my other concerns now addressed I decided about a week and a half ago to move to Vista in the belief that all of the problems had been resolved. Now having relied on Ice's statements about Vista compatibility I find that I do not have a relieable EPG and as far as I'm concerned that's not good enough. In my opinion IceTV should extend the subscriptions of all those subscribers who relied on their announcement in moving to Vista. The extension should be as long as it takes to ensure that the guide works reliably as would reasonably have been expected from Ice's statements.

Your response is eagerly awaited!
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: jgrffin on April 27, 2007, 06:49:02 PM
But it's not ICETV's fault that you chose to upgrade to Vista. They are providing the guide data OK, if your choice of end device doesn't work properly, that's hardly their fault. I mean, why should they provide a free service, when you could just as easily revert to MCE2005 and have a working service?
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: Nomad on April 27, 2007, 08:00:12 PM
But it's not ICETV's fault that you chose to upgrade to Vista. They are providing the guide data OK, if your choice of end device doesn't work properly, that's hardly their fault. I mean, why should they provide a free service, when you could just as easily revert to MCE2005 and have a working service?

Not trying to start a fight here BUT Ice is not a free service ! They say it works with Vista and it doesn't.  So remove the bull from their web site saying "Vista Ready" until its fixed.  Ice have been really quiet on the subject and thats a pain for their loyal users.

Damon
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: philzgr8 on April 30, 2007, 09:48:47 AM
But it's not ICETV's fault that you chose to upgrade to Vista. They are providing the guide data OK, if your choice of end device doesn't work properly, that's hardly their fault. I mean, why should they provide a free service, when you could just as easily revert to MCE2005 and have a working service?
Huh!!! Perhaps you didn't read the post. The simple fact is that I relied on Ice's representations that they had resolved the guide issues for Vista. I now pay for a subscription service which doesn't work. I specifically said that I know the fact it doesn't work isn't Ice's fault but the fact that they represent to me that they have the issue resolved certainly is their fault and I'm simply asking as a paying customer what they will do to rectify my loss! Surely that's not too hard to understand!
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: mbedford on April 30, 2007, 11:39:44 AM
I have the same issue ALL THE TIME,

* Loose channel 7 once a week or every couple of weeks,

* Loose SBS & SBS World News after MINUTES of putting it on the guide and attaching a ICE guide data stream to it. At best it lasts a few hours and its gone.

When I return to the edit channels list all the SBS related channels loose there channel number next to them and have a smaller number in the next column, really strange? I go and tick ALL SBS related channels, go look at the guide and no SBS channels are there. I go select ALL channels and everything is listed apart from SBS related channels.

I do NOT re-arrange my channels as i've heard this annoys the guide.

Come on ICETV / MS get a solution togther its killing us VISTA MCE USERS there are loads of us having this problem!
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: nigel984 on April 30, 2007, 10:35:19 PM
It is a problem with VMC and not IceTV.

If your TV signal is weak VMC will drop channels - the community has been trying to work on a way to lock the channels but havent been successful yet.

I just lost 7 Adelaide and there was huge issues at home because all the favourite shows didnt record. When I heard things like "the old VCR was better than this" it really brings a tear to the eye after all the effort that goes into building a media center.

I decided to try PIMP out fully now - I found the VMC series recordings had to be reset after I "restored default settings". For those that are interested, scan for new services didnt pick up the lost channels but restoring default settings did. Go figure.

Once restoring default settings, series records are in the list but they no longer queue programs to record. They actually cause conflict if you setup a new series record.

So my thought: if VMC wants to screw up again (usually due to signal issues - especially recently due to rainstorms), at least I wont loose all my series now that they are inside PIMP/IceTV.

IceTV is starting to show me why I subscribe to the excellent development/service. Now if only they could syncronise series recordings between PIMP Website and the Vista Media Center.
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: philzgr8 on May 01, 2007, 08:50:25 AM
Bump!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It might be nice to get a reply from Ice on this!
Ok I would like to say this to the people here at IceTV. I am now into my third subscription period with IceTV and I had planned to move from 3 month to annual subscriptions on my next renewal but I am now rethinking. Yes I know it has been said that the issue with the guide screwing up is not the fault of IceTV and I'm not disagreeing with that. What I do want responded to is this: As a long time user of XPMCE and with the benefit of experience I deferred my move to Vista knowing that there could be problems. One of my main criteria was that I must have a working and reliable EPG otherwise the move was definitely not worthwhile for me. OK so I waited until Ice announced that they had a working solution for Vista and not just a beta. With most of my other concerns now addressed I decided about a week and a half ago to move to Vista in the belief that all of the problems had been resolved. Now having relied on Ice's statements about Vista compatibility I find that I do not have a relieable EPG and as far as I'm concerned that's not good enough. In my opinion IceTV should extend the subscriptions of all those subscribers who relied on their announcement in moving to Vista. The extension should be as long as it takes to ensure that the guide works reliably as would reasonably have been expected from Ice's statements.

Your response is eagerly awaited!
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: Nomad on May 01, 2007, 08:48:33 PM
Still Nothing from Ice, thanks Guys

Damon
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: kjfarrell on May 03, 2007, 10:46:57 AM
You advertise that your product is Vista ready when it isn't, and your lack of responce to this issue is getting out of hand. I shall be reporting this to Consumer Affairs soon.
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: freddyfinn on May 03, 2007, 05:11:26 PM
If you think you guys have got it bad try being here in Newcastle. I loose Prime Northern every afternoon forcing me to rescan the channels every day. >:(
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: philzgr8 on May 04, 2007, 07:20:28 AM
If you think you guys have got it bad try being here in Newcastle. I loose Prime Northern every afternoon forcing me to rescan the channels every day. >:(
For what it's worth rather than rescanning try scrolling around for a while in the mini guide. It has been reported that this can have the effect of repairing the guide.
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: jtrembath on May 05, 2007, 09:18:42 AM
Signal problems causing program guide issues? Find this hard to believe, that would mean that everyone has poorr Seven signal everywhere. I checked last night just befor the football on Seven, yes ready to record. Flicked over to watch the last 5 mins of another show on nine, went to go back to Seven and it was gone! Looked at the guide and 7 Digital 1 was on 6. This was around 8:30 Friday night.
With so many users on both XP and Vista having this issue ICE need to respond one way or the other. My subscription is ending soon and although when working ICE has the best EPG I'll look at OzTivo/BladeRunner Pro again.
Come on ICE, if it's an MS problem have you placed a support call?
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: Shane on May 05, 2007, 10:09:57 AM
This issue has nothing to do with the guide provider, it just appears to be because it is the most user viewable area that is effected. Vista by itself is losing the channel frequencies for specific stations at random timeframes. I have a strong suspicion that even if we had a legitimate Microsoft provided guide this issue would still be occurring (unless they'd caught it in beta testing - but I'm not sure they would have).

To prove this to you all:
Next time it happens and before fixing it, go into Settings/TV/Guide/Edit Channels, and if "Seven" (or the channel effected) is still listed but without a tick, and there is a "7" in small type next to it and no (at xxxMHz) frequency next to it, then Vista has lost the tuning frequency, not the guide data.

e.g. It will look something like this

[tick] 9 "Nine" (at xxxMHz)
[     ] 7 "Seven"

Seven would normally look like:
[tick] 7 "Seven" (at xxxMHz)

No tuning frequency, and therefore according to Media Center no channel, so therefore it doesn't display a guide for it. It's also why you can't just hit the channel number and tune to it.

These are identical symptoms to what happened with MCE2005 when we first got Rollup 2, and why just a few days later MS fixed it with a "Rollup for Rollup 2". Problem is, this time the issue isn't happening to everyone as consistently as then, so finding the root cause is taking MS time.

The Microsoft Media Center team are WELL AWARE of this issue, have test binaries in the field locally, and will hopefully have a fix for this soon.

Whilst I understand people are frustrated (I am!), pointing fingers at Ice for this problem isn't helping. Also be aware, this issue effects other guides as well, so moving away from Ice won't resolve this any faster.

Regards,
Shane.
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: philzgr8 on May 07, 2007, 08:53:41 AM
Personally I'm not interested in blaming Ice for this issue but the silence has been deafening on compensation for those who waited for Ice to say they had the EPG ready for Vista before upgrading only to find there is still a major issue. I am one who waited and I am just suggesting that Ice should consider extending the subscriptions of those who are using Vista as a measure of good will. I don't personally think it's too much to ask.
Cheers,

Phil
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: freddyfinn on May 08, 2007, 11:42:18 AM

Quote
For what it's worth rather than rescanning try scrolling around for a while in the mini guide. It has been reported that this can have the effect of repairing the guide.

Not for me unfortunately. :(  But thanks for the tip Phil. :)  I hope a fix will be released soon. 
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: philzgr8 on May 09, 2007, 07:33:07 AM

Quote
For what it's worth rather than rescanning try scrolling around for a while in the mini guide. It has been reported that this can have the effect of repairing the guide.

Not for me unfortunately. :(  But thanks for the tip Phil. :)  I hope a fix will be released soon. 
For what it's worth it doesn't work for me either!  :(
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: philzgr8 on May 09, 2007, 07:34:35 AM
BUMP
It might be nice to get a reply from Ice on this!
Ok I would like to say this to the people here at IceTV. I am now into my third subscription period with IceTV and I had planned to move from 3 month to annual subscriptions on my next renewal but I am now rethinking. Yes I know it has been said that the issue with the guide screwing up is not the fault of IceTV and I'm not disagreeing with that. What I do want responded to is this: As a long time user of XPMCE and with the benefit of experience I deferred my move to Vista knowing that there could be problems. One of my main criteria was that I must have a working and reliable EPG otherwise the move was definitely not worthwhile for me. OK so I waited until Ice announced that they had a working solution for Vista and not just a beta. With most of my other concerns now addressed I decided about a week and a half ago to move to Vista in the belief that all of the problems had been resolved. Now having relied on Ice's statements about Vista compatibility I find that I do not have a relieable EPG and as far as I'm concerned that's not good enough. In my opinion IceTV should extend the subscriptions of all those subscribers who relied on their announcement in moving to Vista. The extension should be as long as it takes to ensure that the guide works reliably as would reasonably have been expected from Ice's statements.

Your response is eagerly awaited!
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: Matt at IceTV on May 09, 2007, 10:49:39 AM
Quote
...Now having relied on Ice's statements about Vista compatibility I find that I do not have a relieable EPG and as far as I'm concerned that's not good enough

IceTV's statements are correct. The current version for Vista does work, there is nothing wrong with the guide or IceTV's service for Vista... the problem lies with Vista and Vista doing channel re-scans and then losing tuning information as a result. Unfortunately the problem seems to be affecting users at random and a lucky few are not affected at all.

This current bug with Vista is similar to that which occured with MCE Update Roll-up2 , but as far as we know only seems to be affecting Australia (Ch7 & SBS), so in Microsoft's minds this is not a high priority, especially with all of the other worldwide problems still to be resolved with Vista.

Quote
...In my opinion IceTV should extend the subscriptions of all those subscribers who relied on their announcement in moving to Vista


As the bug has nothing to do with IceTV, this is not a reasonable request. However having said this, we make it a point to keep those loyal subscribers happy and we will compensate those affected by this known Microsoft issue to a certain extent that we deem reasonable given the circumstances.

On behalf of IceTV, I thank all those Vista users for waiting patiently and I hope that Microsoft can resolve this matter as soon as possible in the interests of everyone affected by the problem.

Cheers,

MattK
IceTV
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: philzgr8 on May 11, 2007, 08:09:10 AM
IceTV's statements are correct. The current version for Vista does work, there is nothing wrong with the guide or IceTV's service for Vista... the problem lies with Vista and Vista doing channel re-scans and then losing tuning information as a result. Unfortunately the problem seems to be affecting users at random and a lucky few are not affected at all.

Given that the issue was acknowledged by IceTV and a workaround anounced, I think this comment ignores the facts.

As the bug has nothing to do with IceTV, this is not a reasonable request. However having said this, we make it a point to keep those loyal subscribers happy and we will compensate those affected by this known Microsoft issue to a certain extent that we deem reasonable given the circumstances.
Nobody has to my knowledge suggested that this is IceTV's fault only that statements made by IceTV were relied on by some who subsequently upgraded to Vista as a result. I don't believe that this is about incriminating anyone just about fair service in exchange for payment and any offer of compensation is appreciated.
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: jgrffin on May 14, 2007, 04:11:18 PM
Quote
Given that the issue was acknowledged by IceTV and a workaround anounced, I think this comment ignores the facts.
Out of curiosity, can you point me to these?
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: philzgr8 on May 16, 2007, 02:14:36 PM
Quote
Given that the issue was acknowledged by IceTV and a workaround anounced, I think this comment ignores the facts.
Out of curiosity, can you point me to these?
No I can't. From memory IceTV announced Vista support by way of emails to existing subscribers and announcements on their main website. Quite rightly the announcements have been removed and I don't have the time nor inclination to go trawling through all my emails to find them. Interesting that only in the last couple of days they posted this in their news/blog section on the website:
Quote from: IceTV
New Bug in Vista
May 14th, 2007

We have had reports of a new bug in Windows Vista that has an affect on channels and guide data dissapearing for some Vista users.

There is currently a bug in Windows Vista Media Center that can drop certain channels from the system. Microsoft are aware and have acknowledged the issue. Primarily this appears to affect both SBS and 7. The only solution available at the moment is to re-scan the channels and re-setup the guide within Media Center until Microsoft releases a patch to fix the issue.

P.S.... Just a quick update! The home page of the IceTV website states the IceTV is compatible with Windows Vista. While this is not misleading by deception it might be considered to be misleading by omission! Not a legal issue, just an ethical one.
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: impact on June 15, 2007, 02:55:00 PM
Its Fixed

http://www.icetv.com.au/iceforum/index.php?topic=687.0
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: lukeronalds on June 16, 2007, 07:58:33 PM
It is possible for someone to email me this hotfix?  Microsoft tech support is not available after hours.
Title: Re: Guide screwups (SBS and 7) need to be addressed
Post by: kjfarrell on June 23, 2007, 03:35:45 PM
It is possible for someone to email me this hotfix?  Microsoft tech support is not available after hours.

Do a google search for KB938927 and you will find another forum that has it for download  ;)