IceTV Forum

IceTV General => General Discussions => Topic started by: prl on January 23, 2018, 05:47:15 PM

Title: Prime 7 HD is here!
Post by: prl on January 23, 2018, 05:47:15 PM
Well, at least in Canberra and Newcastle. Rolled out for the Winter Olympics?

I can't see any press release about it on Prime's Web site.
Title: Re: Prime 7 HD is here!
Post by: kbosward on January 24, 2018, 08:00:48 PM
It's been up a few days in Wollongong, just in time for the Australian Open!

Ken.
Title: Re: Prime 7 HD is here!
Post by: prl on January 24, 2018, 09:02:16 PM
I don't understand why Prime isn't shouting it from the rooftops.
Title: Re: Prime 7 HD is here!
Post by: vader1111 on January 25, 2018, 11:06:07 AM
Any update as to when IceTV will be updated to reflect this change?

I remember it happening on the same day, back when the other networks' primary channels went HD and when SBS started broadcasting Viceland in HD.
Title: Re: Prime 7 HD is here!
Post by: Daniel Hall at IceTV on January 25, 2018, 11:31:38 AM
We are definitely taking this one a bit more cautiously as 7 (and Prime) have been known to switch around HD channels based on sporting events.

Without any official announcement from Prime we will have to see whether this channels sticks around after the Tennis finishes on Sunday, if it does then we will create the new channel so that Prefer HD and other options work.

Until then it looks like a direct replacement of LCN 60 (including the actual broadcast information) so if you have Prime7 set to either "All" or "60" the guide data will show up.
Title: Re: Prime 7 HD is here!
Post by: vader1111 on January 25, 2018, 11:45:36 AM
We are definitely taking this one a bit more cautiously as 7 (and Prime) have been known to switch around HD channels based on sporting events.

Without any official announcement from Prime we will have to see whether this channels sticks around after the Tennis finishes on Sunday, if it does then we will create the new channel so that Prefer HD and other options work.

Until then it looks like a direct replacement of LCN 60 (including the actual broadcast information) so if you have Prime7 set to either "All" or "60" the guide data will show up.
I can understand your reluctance.  There's also speculation on the Beyonwiz forum that the change was made ahead of the Winter Olympics.

My issue isn't with the Guide Data, given that the programming on Prime 7HD is exactly the same as Prime 7 (SD).  My issue is what LCN the timers are sent with. 

I have set my "Guide Settings" to only send data for LCN 60.  Unfortunately, the Timers/Reservations are still being sent with LCN 6 (which corresponds to one of the SD channels).
Title: Re: Prime 7 HD is here!
Post by: Daniel Hall at IceTV on January 25, 2018, 12:52:31 PM
If you set the LCN to 60 only you might need to refresh guide on the PVR to ensure the mapping is correct, however we don't specify a LCN in a timer, just an IceTV channel id. If the timer is newly set it will be assigned to the mapped channel (in this case it would be 60), but any timer from the past will still be on 6.
Title: Re: Prime 7 HD is here!
Post by: prl on January 29, 2018, 01:09:40 PM
We are definitely taking this one a bit more cautiously as 7 (and Prime) have been known to switch around HD channels based on sporting events.
...

I just rang Prime7 Canberra, and I was assured that Prime7 HD would be broadcast in HD on a continuing basis. I'm still puzzled why Prime isn't making a big thing of this.

I was also told, though, when I asked about whether 7mate had reverted to SD that it would continue to be broadcast in HD, though "some older material" would be in SD. None of that seems correct to me. 7mate is currently showing a replay of the Australian Open final, which is less that 24 hours old, and my Beyonwiz is reporting that it's being broadcast in SD (720x567i).

It may be worth checking the status of both Prime7 HD and 7mate with Prime corporate.
Title: Re: Prime 7 HD is here!
Post by: MD on January 29, 2018, 01:25:36 PM
This was Prime's last communication with me when I asked for triplet info.  Every other broadcaster gave them out.  So I doubt I'll get much help!!

Good Morning Colin,

Prime are declining your request for the triplet data at this time.

Regards
LYNDON COX
BROADCAST SERVICES MANAGER
 
Title: Re: Prime 7 HD is here!
Post by: prl on January 29, 2018, 01:45:20 PM
Daniel, I can send you what little triplet information I have. It looks like they've simply changed LCN 60 from SD to HD without changing the triplet. That's certainly the case for Canberra Black Mountain.

For the other regions I have scan data for (Albany WA, Ballarat, Newcastle, Orange), they've simply switched one of the Prime7 SD simulcast services from SD to HD without changing its triples (and presumably, since I think Prime7 HD is uniformly on LCN 60), it was the that LCN that was changed over. I don't have the triple->LCN mapping for any of those regions.
Title: Re: Prime 7 HD is here!
Post by: raymondjpg on January 29, 2018, 08:50:34 PM
This was Prime's last communication with me when I asked for triplet info.  Every other broadcaster gave them out.  So I doubt I'll get much help!!

Good Morning Colin,

Prime are declining your request for the triplet data at this time.

Regards
LYNDON COX
BROADCAST SERVICES MANAGER

What does this dodger think he's going to achieve, other than the kind of notoriety enjoyed by King Canute?
Title: Re: Prime 7 HD is here!
Post by: MD on January 29, 2018, 09:03:52 PM
It takes me back to when Ch9 sued us for copyright infringement.  Then, what they really wanted to do was to break us, and I'm sure they still bear the scars of our win (Pyrrhic though it may have been!). So Prime being difficult make IceTV's life harder, hoping we'll go away.  But what do we do except make watching FTA easier? Ah - must be the destruction of primetime as we encourage timeshiftimg, and ad-skipping (for which I just used to press mute on the remote anyway). So hello OTT which is a real "watch what you want, when you want, and no ads" for a small (ish) sub.  Or... FTA excepts timeshiftimg because the shows then get watched and makes the agencies produce ads we can bear to watch.  Or even ads we even want to talk about, just like a good TV show (I dream!)...
Title: Re: Prime 7 HD is here!
Post by: raymondjpg on January 29, 2018, 09:44:52 PM
Ah - must be the destruction of primetime as we encourage timeshiftimg, and ad-skipping (for which I just used to press mute on the remote anyway).

I think it does have something to do with that, and cannot but bemoan the fact that we have such lousy content to ad ratios because the audience just doesn't demand anything better. Very Occasionally I watch live TV, for example the Tour Down Under, and spend a considerable proportion of my "viewing" time shouting insults at the broadcaster for relentless promotions and interminable boring advertisements. But that is just me. There has to be a proportion of the viewership that relishes the advertisements, like some people look forward to junk mail. otherwise how would the broadcasters get away with it? Many years ago I sent a thinly veiled protest note to the equivalent of ACMA asking if there was a maximum proportion of broadcasting time that could be used for advertisements, and whether it was policed. I received no reply, which told me that if there was some "watch dog" on duty, it was like so many other "watchdogs" in Australia, asleep.
Title: Re: Prime 7 HD is here!
Post by: prl on January 30, 2018, 03:08:21 PM
... Many years ago I sent a thinly veiled protest note to the equivalent of ACMA asking if there was a maximum proportion of broadcasting time that could be used for advertisements, and whether it was policed. ...

Summary of the rules (https://www.acma.gov.au/Industry/Broadcast/Television/Advertising/time-limit-rules-for-advertising-on-commercial-tv-a-quick-guide).
Title: Re: Prime 7 HD is here!
Post by: prl on January 30, 2018, 03:13:04 PM
...
What does this dodger think he's going to achieve, other than the kind of notoriety enjoyed by King Canute?

Poor old Cnut (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cnut_the_Great), subject of one of the most often misunderstood (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Canute_and_the_tide) fables ever.
Title: Re: Prime 7 HD is here!
Post by: vader1111 on January 30, 2018, 04:37:52 PM
... Many years ago I sent a thinly veiled protest note to the equivalent of ACMA asking if there was a maximum proportion of broadcasting time that could be used for advertisements, and whether it was policed. ...

Summary of the rules (https://www.acma.gov.au/Industry/Broadcast/Television/Advertising/time-limit-rules-for-advertising-on-commercial-tv-a-quick-guide).
They're allowed an average of 13 min per hour between 6-12pm, with a maximum of 15 min per hour.  And yet most "1 hour" shows only have a running time of 40-41min.  Something doesn't add up.

One can only assume that they're inserting a further 6-7 minutes of "short program promotions".  That does seem excessive - 1/3 of all non-program matter being advertising for other programs in their schedule.
Title: Re: Prime 7 HD is here!
Post by: prl on January 30, 2018, 06:44:22 PM
That rule is for the broadcasters main channels. For the others: "Different non-program matter limits apply to the multi channels – which are covered by the clause 5.4 of the Code. This allows 15 minutes per hour between 6pm and midnight and 16 minutes per hour at other times."

Also, the class of exemptions is way broader than just "short program promotions" (from linked Commercial Television Industry Code of Practice linked to in the ACMA link):
Quote
5.2.1 For  the  purposes  of  this  section,  the  following  is  counted  as  exempt  non-Program matter:
a) a Program Promotion that is 10 seconds in length or less;

b) a   prize,   competition   or   information   segment   which   refers   to commercial products or services;

c) product  placement  and  commercial  integration  within  a  Program, including   material   which   refers   to   and/or   depicts   commercial products  or  services  or  brands  within  a  Program  in  an  integrated manner;

d) short Program excerpts broadcast during a Program break;

e) a Community Service Announcement;

f) an announcement on behalf of an election authority;

g) a sponsorship announcement, before or after a Program, segment or other material, provided that:
i. it  does  not  contain  a  direct  reference  to  the  price  of goods or services;
ii. it is made clear to the viewer either visually or aurally  that  there  is  a  sponsorship  relationship  between  the sponsor and the Program, segment or other material;
iii. it consists of no more than 10 seconds in the case of a single sponsor, or 10 seconds per sponsor in the case of multiple sponsors, to a maximum of 30 seconds in any instance;

h) a  shopping  guide,  infomercial  or  similar  material,  in  which  the presentation of advertising and information of general interest is an integral part of the Program or segment (including a shopping guide within  a  Program  break  that  is  clearly  distinguishable  from  other advertising e.g. as a community billboard);

i) a promotion transmitted during the closing credits of a Program;

j) superimposed text or visual matter occupying only part of the screen during a Program;

k) any  matter  of  the  kind  set  out  below,  providing  that  it  contains  no more  than  30  seconds  of  visual  material  from  any  Program  or Programs broadcast by the station:
i. a spoken or visual announcement that a Program will not be shown at the advertised time;
ii. a  spoken  or  visual  listing/line-up  or  depiction  of Programs to be broadcast;

l) a brief announcement of the next Program (“next-on”);

m) a  movie  opener,  namely  a  brief  introductory  sequence  to  a  feature film   which typically   identifies   the   station   and   the   film   to   be presented;

n) a  Station  ID,  provided  that  there  is  no  reference  to  the  day  and/or time of broadcast of any Program or Programs;

o) a plot summary at the start of an episode of a Program series or serial;

p) a  Program  trailer  at  the  end  of  an  episode  of  a  Program  series  or  serial, provided that it is broadcast before the commencement of the next Program;

q) a   promotion,   announcement,   or   information   segment   which   is broadcast  without  charge  or  consideration  by  the Licensee and which promotes free to air television services (including associated platforms  such  as  HbbTV),  provided  that  no  specific  product  or brand  is  promoted  or  endorsed  (unless  that  product  or  brand  is Freeview, or other similar group or organisation comprised of some or   all   free   to   air   television   broadcasters).  Such   a   promotion, announcement or information segment may include reference to or depictions of a specific Program, Programs or channel broadcast by the Licensee,  provided  that  the  primary  focus  of  the  spot  is  the promotion of free to air television. 

Got a fleet of large trucks you want to drive through that lot? For example, those excruciating "Freemans" ads are exempt because that mention the "Freeview" word.
Title: Re: Prime 7 HD is here!
Post by: raymondjpg on January 30, 2018, 07:55:03 PM
Thanks for the clarifications surrounding what is acceptable practice for commercial TV broadcasting in Australia. As I thought, the general rule is about 33% of viewing time in prime time, with a maximum of what John Howard might have called core advertising at a notional 25%. Whichever way you look at it, it is manifestly excessive when compared to the EU and particularly (Brexit or no) the UK. I was prompted to uncover this piece (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/25/more-adverts-in-prime-time-shows-under-eu-rules-change-after-bro/) from the Daily Telegraph which reports an EU proposal to increase core advertising in prime time from the current 20% to "a daily limit of no more than 20 per cent of advertising between 7am or 11pm, allowing broadcasters to “choose more freely” when they place their adverts." The report also states that "Britain has “gold-plated” the EU directive on the 12-minute rule to create a stricter regime. ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5 can show an average of seven minutes an hour, with a maximum of twelve minutes in any one hour....UK officials in Brussels are negotiating to protect the current system, but admit it could be struck down if the EU decides it amounts to a distortion of the single market." My guess is that Brexit would have put a spanner in those works.

From the same piece, here is a quote from a premier commercial broadcaster in the UK: "A spokesman for ITV said: "What is important to us, when it comes to television advertising minutage, is striking the right balance, ensuring that our viewers are not exposed to excessive amounts of advertising and that the quality of their viewing experience is maintained.""

Can you imagine any broadcaster in Australia coming out with a statement like that? I'm pretty sure that the difference between here and there is the amount of people pressure on the broadcasters.

I cannot help feeling that if Australians had more of an interest in what they are being dished up on TV that we would have a better content to ad ratio here.
Title: Re: Prime 7 HD is here!
Post by: Daniel Hall at IceTV on January 31, 2018, 02:37:30 PM
Just to get back on track a little here...  ;D but we have just added Prime7 HD to the affected regions.

Channel information is available now and guide data will be online at 2:45pm (Sydney time).
Title: Re: Prime 7 HD is here!
Post by: vader1111 on January 31, 2018, 03:04:45 PM
Excellent, thank you!!!
Title: Re: Prime 7 HD is here!
Post by: prl on January 31, 2018, 05:54:00 PM
Thanks, Daniel!  :D