IceTV Forum

IceTV Guide for IceTV enabled PVRs => SKIPPA => Topic started by: emmsee on July 21, 2015, 10:13:39 AM

Title: Skippa manual
Post by: emmsee on July 21, 2015, 10:13:39 AM
G'day Leon & Dave,
Monday the 20th has come and gone and still a blank pdf instead of the Skippa manual.
Do you have an ETA?
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: bodogbodog on July 21, 2015, 07:30:32 PM
For completeness and for anyone trying to find the Skippa manual
When it's released it will be available @ http://support.icetv.com.au/entries/69766800-Product-Manuals-SKIPPA
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: csutak40 on July 23, 2015, 04:15:30 AM
Still no manual
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: Rat on July 23, 2015, 05:44:52 AM
Another slip, doesn't matter to me though as I imagine my Skippa is a few weeks away yet at best.
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: kavey8 on July 24, 2015, 12:40:33 PM
Trying to be very patient here...

Please provide an update on:

i)  Availability of manual

ii) Expected first shipping date (and what will be the phasing of the shipping - i.e. batches of X units over Y weeks)

Thanks
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: IanL-S on July 24, 2015, 01:48:37 PM
I am told that later today IceTV will be sending an email to those who have ordered a SKIPPA with an update.

Ian
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: Rat on July 24, 2015, 02:21:03 PM
Yeah how about they tell us they have no Skippa's just before knock off on Friday afternoon?  Yeah that sounds like a plan, I don't want to be here when the phone starts ringing.

Well done Skippers, another fantastic effort.
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: IanL-S on July 24, 2015, 02:48:08 PM
Yeah how about they tell us they have no Skippa's just before knock off on Friday afternoon?

I suppose that is one possibility. Being an optimist, I am hopeful of a somewhat better outcome that the one you are suggesting.

At the moment I an pondering on the significance, if any, of the delay in the release of the Manual. Releasing the manual should not be impacted on by a delay in shipment due to the units not having reached Australia. To me it is suggestive of a last minute change to the some aspect of the SKIPPAs functioning. It may be that they do not want to ship the units until an updated firmware is ready.

Ian
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: csutak40 on July 25, 2015, 05:06:48 PM
[q To me it is suggestive of a last minute change to the some aspect of the SKIPPAs functioning. It may be that they do not want to ship the units until an updated firmware is ready.

Ian
The conspiracy theorist in me thinks that the firmware needed updating, because the original had the skipping function built in, and now that they have decided to charge for that function. it has to be changed so it doesn't skip "out of the box", without a subscription.
Similarly, the original manual would also mention nothing about the skipping function being an optional extra, so that needs to be re-written as well.
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: IanL-S on July 25, 2015, 05:15:13 PM
Judy, you could well be onto something.

Ian
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: Dave at IceTV on July 26, 2015, 08:39:23 PM
The SKIPPA manual and quick start guide can be downloaded here:

http://skippa.tv/manual
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: nis200sx on July 26, 2015, 09:00:03 PM
The SKIPPA manual and quick start guide can be downloaded here:
http://support.icetv.com.au/entries/69766800-Product-Manuals-SKIPPA
YAY!
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: emmsee on July 26, 2015, 10:20:33 PM
The SKIPPA manual and quick start guide can be downloaded here:
http://support.icetv.com.au/entries/69766800-Product-Manuals-SKIPPA

Well done Dave, thanks
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: JPP on July 26, 2015, 10:57:23 PM
As expected, it closely follows the Altech 9600T manual  :).

Just one question after a brief read through. I can't find the 2 small blue left/right arrow keys, which are mentioned on page 32 under Manual Skip, on the Remote itself. I can only see the Autoskip and Unskip buttons.

.....Just after another look at the Remote - would they be the Left/Right arrows around the OK button?

If so, could we have an option somewhere down the track to use the Up/Down buttons for additional Skip functions?
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: IanL-S on July 26, 2015, 11:11:33 PM
Posted on 16 June?

No mention of OperaTV!

Updtae: I suppose it is possible that the page was created on 16 June and the content added later.

Ian
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: warkus on July 26, 2015, 11:26:13 PM
No mention of it at all, very sad if that's true after what has been stated about it supposedly having it.

It says on the remote map that the APP button is not currently available.

😞
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: JPP on July 27, 2015, 01:16:26 AM
They could be waiting for Altech to supply that bit of code - the Altech 9600T manual has it likewise listed as Not Available.

Edit: The 9600T addendum Manual shows the App button enabled and the App screen shot lists 2 Apps.
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: IanL-S on July 27, 2015, 08:24:08 AM
They could be waiting for Altech to supply that bit of code - the Altech 9600T manual has it likewise listed as Not Available.

Either Leon or Dave has been using the OperaTV part of the code, so it exists. They may be using a beta firmware rather than the currently intended shipping firmware. It may be still in development and not yet at a stage where it is ready to be included in the manual.

Ian
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: FMB on July 27, 2015, 01:39:35 PM
Book Report Ė Skippa User Manual

Things what I lurned from reading this book.

First up, Skippa ships with a HDMI cable. Somewhat rare these days, although I suspect it wonít be high quality. I donít need one as the HDMI cable from my LG PVR is still in place ready to go. At least Iíll have a spare as I gave my last spare away recently.

There are four LEDís on the front panel. It may look like a Christmase tree, but weíll wait and see. My CCTV system has two very bright LEDís on the front panel. A piece of black electrical tape fixed that.

I was somewhat surprised to find composite video connections on the back, but I guess they have to allow for the lowest common denominator.

The remote is certainly colourful, but also fairly crowded. My biggest problem will be translating all of those buttons across to my Harmony One. I suspect it will take a while to work out which of the non-standard buttons (My Week, MySeries, My Recordings, AutoSkip, UnSkip etc.) I use most often. Iím not looking forward to numerous updates on the remote before I finally get it right. I checked online and the Skippa still isnít showing up in the Harmony Remote database under the name or model number shown in the manual.

On the program guide, as others have mentioned, Iíd prefer to see more channels and less info in the top panel. Iíd at least like the ability to configure it any way I like. I have two options on my TiVo and they both show more than four channels. I quite like the option to set reminders. TiVo canít do that and it could be useful. I also like the fact that you can simply hit the Record button to flag a show to be recorded and hit it again to unflag it. However, the manual doesnít say if there are any further steps required or options available. The same instructions appear on page 19. On TiVo, if I hit record from the guide, it brings up options. The same applies if I wish to cancel a recording. Does this happen on Skippa or does it just use the default options and one has to  dig a little deeper elsewhere to set options such as custom padding, series recording etc.

On page 12, the section on the i-Plate, it looks like someone got lazy and thought, I couldnít be bothered explaining all the options, just click the help button. I thought that was a bit RTFM (Read The F***ing Manual), which is kind of ironic considering thatís what I am doing.

Then we move to page 13 and jump to Settings for channels. Wouldnít it make sense to just cover all setting in the settings section?

Iím a little confused about the volume buttons. I donít plan on using Skippa to adjust the volume, Iíd prefer to use my AVR and Iím sure many others prefer to use their TV to adjust volume. If so, what volume do I leave the Skippa on? Should it be up at full volume, somewhere in the middle? Please explain.

Chase Play Ė This is a big one for me. TiVo has a buffer on both tuners, meaning I can set a channel on one tuner knowing I have a 30 minute buffer available to me when I switch to that tuner. Skippa doesnít have that feature. To my mind, that makes Skippa a one watching, two recording tuner device rather than a three tuner device. Yes, I know I can simply record the other channel(s) and then playback the recordings, but thatís a lot more stuffing around and will result in more housekeeping to delete shows I was forced to record for the sake of a five or 10 minute buffer. Is it just me or do others find that annoying? Update suggestion: Buffers on all three tuners and the ability to switch between tuners at the press of a button.

I like the look of the My Recordings page. I think it is better than TiVo. It certainly has more options than simply a list of recordings by date.

Iím a little confused as to why Auto-Skip prioritises processing by genre. That seems unnecessary. Why not simply process them by recording order. To be honest, Iím not overly concerned about Auto-Skip. It looks a little complicated. I mean, why should I have to set pre-padding to 10 minutes (I assume globally), just so Auto-Skip works better? As long as I have skip buttons on playback (as opposed to simple fast forward), that will do for me. Iíll reserve judgement until I actually try it.

Looking at the settings, I get the impression that I have to set things like skip forwards/backwards and pre/post padding globally. Great that you can set defaults, but can you modify them on an ad hoc basis for each recording? Can that be done on the app? Iím confused.

The local media playback page doesnít include a list of compatible media. Itís not even on the specifications page. That really should be fixed.

The network media playback section really needs more explanation and examples. It should show how I can watch a recorded show on my iPad. The information there tells me nothing. They seem to go to much more trouble explaining how to use HBB TV and Freeview.

Do we really need two full page ads extolling the virtues of the IceTV app. Pretty sure weíve already got it by now.

The missing Apps section. I wouldnít be at all surprised if this is one of the main reasons for the delay. Itís quite possibly a legal, rather than technical, problem. But Iím just guessing.

In conclusion, Iím still looking forward to getting my SkippaÖeventually, and expect it to be a suitable replacement for my TiVo, despite some limitations. Time will tell.

FMB

Conspiracy Theory: Did anyone else notice that most of the screen shots in the manual are from July 19 and 20? The manual was originally due for release on July 20. Did they anticipate that or have they been updated?
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: emmsee on July 27, 2015, 02:25:48 PM
They could be waiting for Altech to supply that bit of code - the Altech 9600T manual has it likewise listed as Not Available.
The addendum to the 9600 manual has them enabled with screenshots. 
Some good new features in the manual update.
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: IanL-S on July 27, 2015, 02:55:22 PM
They could be waiting for Altech to supply that bit of code - the Altech 9600T manual has it likewise listed as Not Available.
The addendum to the 9600 manual has them enabled with screenshots. 
Some good new features in the manual update.

I noticed that but it did not sink in. Only a few apps shown, but that should not be taken as a negative.

On the one time shift only, I suspect it is a hardware limitation. The SoC supports 7 recording slots, one of which is devoted to the time shift buffer. It does not appear possible to save the buffer; this can be done after a fashion on units with older Broadcom SoCs.

Ian
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: Klink1313 on July 27, 2015, 05:14:10 PM
Manual been removed all ready?

I get the message "Oops. The page you were looking for doesn't exist."

Can get to the quick set up guide though
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: IanL-S on July 27, 2015, 05:24:06 PM
Manual been removed all ready?

I get the message "Oops. The page you were looking for doesn't exist."

Can get to the quick set up guide though

Yes, definitely gone. After I went to all the trouble printing it out - its removal suggests there is an update in the works. Poor trees. :'(

On another matter, I see that the Altech 9600 does not have and ftp server. It may be something to do with the way files are named - according to Dave they are just given a number so you would have problems working out which file was the one you wanted. I have a similar problem with the TF-T6000 which does not display the date recorded - just gives the Android default date.

It would be possible to create a specialised ftp server that reads the program name from the relevant file in the listing and renames it as it downloads.

Ian
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: Daniel Hall at IceTV on July 27, 2015, 05:27:23 PM
The link to the manual has been fixed in Dave's earlier post.

The correct URL for the manual is http://skippa.tv/manual
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: Klink1313 on July 27, 2015, 06:23:26 PM
Link all working now - document now on my hard drive ready for detailed analysis  :)
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: emmsee on July 27, 2015, 06:33:12 PM
Hey Leon or Dave,
On page 39 of the manual it states "SKIPPA requires an Internet connection at all times".
I'm a grey nomad travelling around OZ and use a wireless  broadband modem as a WiFi Hotspot, my only access to the internet.

Wireless Data is expensive.

Why do we need to be connected at all times and what daily draw on my data plan will Skippa use?

What will happen if I ,say, connect 2 or 3 times a day to allow IceTv to update?
Will Skippa still record my chosen programs or series?

Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: grahford on July 27, 2015, 09:25:02 PM
Hey Leon or Dave,
On page 39 of the manual it states "SKIPPA requires an Internet connection at all times".

My internet has been having issues the last month.  Out for days at a time.  ISP can't figure out why.  So if I had a Skippa in that time, would anything work during the internet blackouts.  eg, would any timers already sent to the device still trigger?  Would I be able to watch live TV?  Manually record something?  Or would it be a brick? 

I was assuming it would be like my existing Topfield with IceTV now.  Everything would still work except the EPG wouldn't update, the last five days of timers would still be there but no new timers would be received, and obviously I could still watch live TV or recordings.

But that line in the manual makes me worry the Skippa would shutdown if it can't check in?

Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: csutak40 on July 28, 2015, 02:34:41 AM
Book Report Ė Skippa User Manual
Thank you for that - haven't had a chance to read it today.
Things what I lurned from reading this book.
The remote is certainly colourful, but also fairly crowded. My biggest problem will be translating all of those buttons across to my Harmony One. I suspect it will take a while to work out which of the non-standard buttons (My Week, MySeries, My Recordings, AutoSkip, UnSkip etc.) I use most often. Iím not looking forward to numerous updates on the remote before I finally get it right. I checked online and the Skippa still isnít showing up in the Harmony Remote database under the name or model number shown in the manual.
Hmm.  I purchased a Harmony years ago, and could never figure out how to make it play well with my Toppy5K, (could get it to do the basics, but for more convoluted things - mostly TAPs, I just couldn't set it up) so gave up on it.  Sounds like the Skippa will have similar problems

Iím a little confused about the volume buttons. I donít plan on using Skippa to adjust the volume, Iíd prefer to use my AVR and Iím sure many others prefer to use their TV to adjust volume. If so, what volume do I leave the Skippa on? Should it be up at full volume, somewhere in the middle? Please explain.
I actually usually use the Toppy to adjust the valume - simply because that is the remote that is usually closest at hand  :D

Chase Play Ė This is a big one for me. TiVo has a buffer on both tuners, meaning I can set a channel on one tuner knowing I have a 30 minute buffer available to me when I switch to that tuner. Skippa doesnít have that feature. To my mind, that makes Skippa a one watching, two recording tuner device rather than a three tuner device. Yes, I know I can simply record the other channel(s) and then playback the recordings, but thatís a lot more stuffing around and will result in more housekeeping to delete shows I was forced to record for the sake of a five or 10 minute buffer. Is it just me or do others find that annoying? Update suggestion: Buffers on all three tuners and the ability to switch between tuners at the press of a button.
This does sound like a pain
Looking at the settings, I get the impression that I have to set things like skip forwards/backwards and pre/post padding globally. Great that you can set defaults, but can you modify them on an ad hoc basis for each recording? Can that be done on the app? Iím confused.
If you're right about that, I am not happy.  On the Toppy, I can change the padding for individual shows if I want to, a feature I often find handy.  OK, I know that the fact that the Toppy only has 2 tuners, would make that more desirable, but it could still prove handy at times,

[/quote]

Must make time to study the manual tomorrow
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: csutak40 on July 28, 2015, 02:37:10 AM
Manual been removed all ready?

I get the message "Oops. The page you were looking for doesn't exist."

Can get to the quick set up guide though

Glad I downloaded it yesterday :-)  Maybe they are updating it?
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: IanL-S on July 28, 2015, 08:29:46 AM
The one-page place-holder is back. No manual.

Glad I save the 'old' version to HDD and printed it out!

Ian
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: Daniel Hall at IceTV on July 28, 2015, 08:43:37 AM
The one-page place-holder is back. No manual.

Glad I save the 'old' version to HDD and printed it out!

Ian

Hi Ian,

What ISP are you on? and what browser are you using?

The manual is definitely online at http://skippa.tv/manual
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: FMB on July 28, 2015, 09:23:44 AM
There does seem to be a lot of confusion about the manual. The original post from weeks ago, said the manual would be available at skippa.tv/manual then Dave posted a link to the manual at a different URL. Then the manual was moved to the original URL of skippa.tv/manual. That doesn't mean there are two different versions, just a URL correction.

The one at skippa.tv/manual is the same one that was available at the link Dave posted.
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: IanL-S on July 28, 2015, 10:01:40 AM
The one-page place-holder is back. No manual.

Glad I save the 'old' version to HDD and printed it out!

Ian

Hi Ian,

What ISP are you on? and what browser are you using?

The manual is definitely online at http://skippa.tv/manual

ISP: Telstra Bippond Cable
Firefox (latest version)

I tried with Chrome and it worked  - obviously the url had be cached by Firefox.

Ian
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: csutak40 on July 28, 2015, 06:07:16 PM
I have a couple of questions from either those that read the manual or an IceTV staffer.  I read the manual, couldn't find the answer to my question.

Can one edit recorded shows?  I mean, if one doesn't have the autoskip function, can one remove the padding?

Also, can the default padding be changed for individual shows or series?
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: FMB on July 28, 2015, 06:30:27 PM
I have a couple of questions from either those that read the manual or an IceTV staffer.  I read the manual, couldn't find the answer to my question.

Can one edit recorded shows?  I mean, if one doesn't have the autoskip function, can one remove the padding?

Also, can the default padding be changed for individual shows or series?

With regard to the editing, I think that's what the blue skip buttons are for.  I have to admit that I didn't really understand that bit.

There's no mention of changing the padding for individual shows, just the default. I don't know whether the IceTV app allows it.

Hopefully one of the staff will have a better answer.
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: IanL-S on July 28, 2015, 06:57:03 PM
I have a couple of questions from either those that read the manual or an IceTV staffer.  I read the manual, couldn't find the answer to my question.

Can one edit recorded shows?  I mean, if one doesn't have the autoskip function, can one remove the padding?

Also, can the default padding be changed for individual shows or series?

Judy, I was wondering the same thing. You can edit recordings on Topfield PVRs.

Ian
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: csutak40 on July 28, 2015, 08:31:00 PM


Judy, I was wondering the same thing. You can edit recordings on Topfield PVRs.

Ian

LOL, I know that!  ;D  In fact, I spent quite a while with my Nitro PDF reader, highlighting all the bits that the 5K can do (with TAPS) and the Skippa can't (AFAIK) making notes and asking questions.  I saved it...  When I went to re-open it, it informed me that it is corrupted  :'( :( >:(

I remember a few of them though.. (ignoring the autoskip for a minute - which BTW, does not say anywhere in the manual that it is an optional extra) you can set the skip function for one time limit only.  Say, 3 minutes.  If the commercial is longer or shorter than that, too bad.
the "i-Plate" will allow you to have a quick look at what's on the channel you're watching (wouldn't you know that already?) and what's coming on that same channel next, but if you want to know what's on your other favourites... that  requires scrolling
And you are forever being directed to your tablet or iPhone or PC.  I don't own a tablet, my iPhone (even if it was right next to me, which it usually isn't) has too small a screen for comfort, and if I wanted to go to the PC in the middle of watching TV, just to change the setting, then why do I have a TV?
There were more...  Amazing how much my ancient Toppy 5K can do that the Skippa apparently can't  :'(
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: IanL-S on July 29, 2015, 08:58:18 AM
Judy

As I said in the PM I just sent to you, it should be possible to add the ability to delete pre and post-padding to the add-skipping function. It presumably is capable of taking you to the beginning and end of the program so you can confirm that the material to be removed is correct. If that could be done it would be a really useful feature.

Edit: Just did some quick calculation of wasted storage if we use 10 minutes pre and 30 minutes post-padding for recordings of the following length:
30 minutes   57.14%
60 minutes   40.00%
90 minutes   30.77%
120minutes   25.00%

Ian
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: Dave at IceTV on July 29, 2015, 12:12:39 PM
Just one question after a brief read through. I can't find the 2 small blue left/right arrow keys, which are mentioned on page 32 under Manual Skip, on the Remote itself. I can only see the Autoskip and Unskip buttons.

.....Just after another look at the Remote - would they be the Left/Right arrows around the OK button?

If so, could we have an option somewhere down the track to use the Up/Down buttons for additional Skip functions?

Yes, and yes. The left/right arrow buttons are the configurable manual skip buttons. The up/down buttons will be added in a firmware update.
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: JPP on July 29, 2015, 12:49:49 PM
Thanks Daniel, very good news. I do a lot of Chase playing, so extra flexibility in Skipping is most welcome.
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: nis200sx on July 29, 2015, 08:10:36 PM
Judy, I was wondering the same thing. You can edit recordings on Topfield PVRs.

Ian

The only PVRs I know of that can truly edit recordings are the antique SD Toppies and the good old DP series Beyonwiz PVRs. The TMS Topfields, T series Beyonwiz and Strong PVRs just pretend to edit the recording (so don't really save any HDD space). It's like a very time consuming Manually setup AutoSkip...

Beyonwiz T series and Humax PVRs cannot edit recordings (pretend or real).

(ignoring the autoskip for a minute - which BTW, does not say anywhere in the manual that it is an optional extra) you can set the skip function for one time limit only.  Say, 3 minutes.  If the commercial is longer or shorter than that, too bad.

if the commercial is longer than 3 minutes you would do the same as on your antique toppy or any other PVR. i.e. Skip back 10 or 15 or 20 seconds. With just two manual skip buttons you wouldn't set one of them to 3 minutes. You'd set it to 30 seconds (and press it 5 times or just hold it for a second). If you had 4 manual skip buttons you might set one to 3 minutes and one to 30 seconds. And set the back buttons to 3 minutes and 10 or 15 seconds. This is exactly the same as 99% of the PVRs out there. Having AutoSkip doesn't limit the manual skip in any way.

the "i-Plate" will allow you to have a quick look at what's on the channel you're watching (wouldn't you know that already?)

Not if you are zapping channels looking for something to watch.

And you are forever being directed to your tablet or iPhone or PC.  I don't own a tablet, my iPhone (even if it was right next to me, which it usually isn't) has too small a screen for comfort, and if I wanted to go to the PC in the middle of watching TV, just to change the setting, then why do I have a TV?

Instead lets spend half the night on a computer playing with TEDS software when we should be at the TV - with or without a tablet or phone on the coffee table (it's optional).

There were more...  Amazing how much my ancient Toppy 5K can do that the Skippa apparently can't  :'(

You haven't really listed anything yet.  8)

Without really trying I can list 3 major things the skippa (or almost any HD IceTV compatible PVR) can do that an old SD toppy can't:

1. View and Record the HD channels.
2. Record more than 2 channels at once.
3. Use IceTV smart recording.

I'm sorry Judy but you are just making excuses to make yourself feel better for choosing to battle on with an old SD toppy while the rest of us look forward to using our new Skippa.

Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: prl on July 29, 2015, 10:38:12 PM
... The ... T series Beyonwiz ... just pretend(s) to edit the recording (so don't really save any HDD space). It's like a very time consuming Manually setup AutoSkip...

Beyonwiz T series ... cannot edit recordings (pretend or real).
You're going to need to make up your mind there. ;)

The T series Beyonwiz can indeed "pretend" to edit; it allows you to set cut in/cut out marks that are (optionally) respected on playback, but that doesn't reduce the file size.

And as the HD Topfields had a TAP that could apply the cutlist to a recording to reduce its size, the T series Beyonwizes have a plugin that can do that job. That plugin is now part of the standard firmware distribution.

To do those jobs on the T series, it's MEDIA from live TV then MENU>Cut-list editor... and MENU>Execute cuts...
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: csutak40 on July 29, 2015, 11:42:20 PM

The only PVRs I know of that can truly edit recordings are the antique SD Toppies and the good old DP series Beyonwiz PVRs. The TMS Topfields, T series Beyonwiz and Strong PVRs just pretend to edit the recording (so don't really save any HDD space). It's like a very time consuming Manually setup AutoSkip...

Beyonwiz T series and Humax PVRs cannot edit recordings (pretend or real).
Well, if that is true, then the 1TB HDD suddenly became a lot smaller.  I have a 750gig HDD in my Toppy 5K and  turns out, that is bigger than the Skippa's HDD, even though I'd be likely to record less with it, as it only has 2 tuners (and can't record more than 2 shows, even  on the same network)


if the commercial is longer than 3 minutes you would do the same as on your antique toppy or any other PVR. i.e. Skip back 10 or 15 or 20 seconds. With just two manual skip buttons you wouldn't set one of them to 3 minutes. You'd set it to 30 seconds (and press it 5 times or just hold it for a second). If you had 4 manual skip buttons you might set one to 3 minutes and one to 30 seconds. And set the back buttons to 3 minutes and 10 or 15 seconds. This is exactly the same as 99% of the PVRs out there. Having AutoSkip doesn't limit the manual skip in any way.

No, on my antique Toppy, I have two buttons for the purpose (and some more backwards buttons as well) - 1 set at 3 minutes the other at 15 seconds.  The way  I understand the manual (correct me if I'm wrong) the Skippa only has one skip button  (OK, two, forward and backwards) so, there is no easy way to fine-tune it.  If you set it for 30 seconds (as most commercials go on for minutes, not seconds) you'd have to press it so many times, you may as well just use the FF button.
Not if you are zapping channels looking for something to watch.
Which is why I said that instead of just showing the channel you're on, it should show all of your favourites on the one screen.  Then you wouldn't need to "zap".   Again, I can do that on my antique Toppy
Instead lets spend half the night on a computer playing with TEDS software when we should be at the TV - with or without a tablet or phone on the coffee table (it's optional).

When it worked  :'( :'( :'( I never spent "half the night" on the computer playing with TEDS.  I only spent time on it if I wanted to make a change to my favourites.  (add one or delete one - maybe a minute)  I had Windows scheduler set up for TED to run every day at 4pm, at which time it downloaded the EPG from IceTV, and uploaded it to the Toppy.  No hands on intervention required.   It did generate a log, showing me if there were any clashes - I could look at that at my leisure and make the necessary adjustments, or not.  No hurry, as the timers were set for 7 days, so I would have made any adjustments to "today's" schedule earlier 99% of the time.
Now that it has stopped uploading to the Toppy, I do have to spend a lot of time, as I have to set the timers manually, but that's another story.

You haven't really listed anything yet.  8)
OK. Here are some I remember.  Not about to go through the manual again, but there were more

Several skip buttons, not just one
1 page EPG, showing all of your chosen favourite channels - no scrolling required
Can't set individual padding for shows/series - overriding the default.
Same goes for overriding other default settings in some circumstances.  As an example:  I prefer first run shows only.  However, the ABC often repeats the same show several times a week.  The first one often clashes with something else, so I choose to record one of the repeat offerings for the same show.  I can tell the Toppy that for that show only, I want to record repeats, but only on ,say, Thursdays (avoiding recording several repeats)

Without really trying I can list 3 major things the skippa (or almost any HD IceTV compatible PVR) can do that an old SD toppy can't:

1. View and Record the HD channels.
2. Record more than 2 channels at once.
3. Use IceTV smart recording.
I'll pay you those (although I don't really know what IceTV smart recording is ;D)  But I am willing to bet that TEDS was smarter  :D  As for HD (except for some offerings on the HD channels - very few, as it happens-) I am not that bothered.  I record those with Windows MC
I'm sorry Judy but you are just making excuses to make yourself feel better for choosing to battle on with an old SD toppy while the rest of us look forward to using our new Skippa.
No, you are very wrong.  I am not looking for "excuses" I am stating facts.  I am not the only person who has held on to the Toppy 5K all this time, or thinks it was a great machine (made a lot better with the TAPS that were developed by users)  I am certainly aware of the fact that it is time to move on, but that doesn't mean that, having studied the manual, I can't voice my disappointment in some of the things I've noticed.  What makes me even more disappointed is that Heinz asked for input from us years ago, when he first announced the Skippa and then seemingly decided to ignore every single suggestion.
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: csutak40 on July 30, 2015, 12:04:36 AM
Judy

As I said in the PM I just sent to you, it should be possible to add the ability to delete pre and post-padding to the add-skipping function. It presumably is capable of taking you to the beginning and end of the program so you can confirm that the material to be removed is correct. If that could be done it would be a really useful feature.

Edit: Just did some quick calculation of wasted storage if we use 10 minutes pre and 30 minutes post-padding for recordings of the following length:
30 minutes   57.14%
60 minutes   40.00%
90 minutes   30.77%
120minutes   25.00%

Ian

Thank you, Ian.  Yes, that is really disappointing, that reduces the effective size of the HDD by about half
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: prl on July 30, 2015, 12:31:44 PM
I've successfully used 5 min pre-padding and 25 min post-padding for some time. So my wasted storage figures are a bit better than IanB's:
30 min: 50%
60 min: 33%
90 min: 25%
120 min: 20%

If I really cared about the waste space, I'd edit it out, but I've never edited to save space, even on our Beyonwiz DPs where editing did save space without any further effort.
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: nis200sx on July 30, 2015, 02:58:42 PM
I'm sorry Judy but you are just making excuses to make yourself feel better for choosing to battle on with an old SD toppy while the rest of us look forward to using our new Skippa.

Hi Judy, I just realised that you have ordered a Skippa.

I'll pay you those (although I don't really know what IceTV smart recording is ;D)  But I am willing to bet that TEDS was smarter  :D  As for HD (except for some offerings on the HD channels - very few, as it happens-) I am not that bothered.  I record those with Windows MC

TED started off as a free alternative to IceTV to get a 7 day TV guide onto the 5k toppies. Then TEDS appeared to add TiVo like recording features to 5k toppies. By it's end TEDS had a lot of options and some clever tricks - like a 5 star rating system to decide which shows to drop when there's a conflict.

If you use IceTV with your Windows Media Center and let IceTV manage your series recordings on it then you are already using IceTV smart recording.
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: csutak40 on July 31, 2015, 12:17:46 AM
TED started off as a free alternative to IceTV to get a 7 day TV guide onto the 5k toppies. Then TEDS appeared to add TiVo like recording features to 5k toppies. By it's end TEDS had a lot of options and some clever tricks - like a 5 star rating system to decide which shows to drop when there's a conflict.
Yes, it certainly does have some clever tricks - and I don't understand why Heinz decided to ignore all the suggestions to employ some of those.
If you use IceTV with your Windows Media Center and let IceTV manage your series recordings on it then you are already using IceTV smart recording.
You mean the fact that it can ignore repeats?  Because, AFAIK, all other PVRs can record series etc., no? 
TBH, I haven't been keeping up with what the various PVRs can or can't do.  I have been holding my breath for the Skippa, hoping that it will be a great replacement for Toppy 5k with all the TAPs (like PBK, JustEPG and last but not least TEDS  :'()  Seems the Skippa won't be replacing any of those TAPs
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: Paul55 on July 31, 2015, 07:45:25 AM
Because, AFAIK, all other PVRs can record series etc., no? 

No. AFAIK, apart from IceTV PVRs, only Foxtel and some Freeview PVRs can do proper series recording and avoid repeats.
Foxtel and Freeview are locked down systems with no skipping.
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: IanL-S on July 31, 2015, 07:49:19 AM
Because, AFAIK, all other PVRs can record series etc., no? 

No. AFAIK, apart from IceTV PVRs, only Foxtel and some Freeview PVRs can do proper series recording and avoid repeats.
Foxtel and Freeview are locked down systems with no skipping.

While the SmartEPG TMS TAP for Topfield PVRs cannot do first run only, it builds a data base and you can configure it so that it does not record programs that you have previously recorded. That is rather neat feature.

Ian
Title: Skippa manual Version 1.2
Post by: bodogbodog on August 09, 2015, 02:56:28 PM
No idea what changes are included in version 1.2 of the SKIPPA manual which is now available @ https://www.icetv.com.au/support/SKIPPA_manual.pdf
Title: Re: Skippa manual Version 1.2
Post by: csutak40 on August 09, 2015, 03:54:53 PM
No idea what changes are included in version 1.2 of the SKIPPA manual which is now available @ https://www.icetv.com.au/support/SKIPPA_manual.pdf
Thanks for that
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: SkippaBeat on August 10, 2015, 12:03:58 PM
Mainly cosmetic, changes to IP and Copyright, slight differences in rear photos, and change to Skip function on remote.
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: Carljh on September 08, 2015, 09:32:32 PM
Noticed that the manual has been updated again.  Still version 1.2 but having just a quick browse, see that they are now suggesting 5 minutes padding for Auto Skip instead of 10 and are including a WI-Fi antenna now.
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: peteru on September 26, 2015, 04:30:16 AM
I had a read of the online manual as at 25 Sep 2015 and am concerned by this statement on page 62:
Quote
Hacking of the conditional access system or facilitating anyone else doing so is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. Failure to adhere to this prohibition is a criminal offence.

Does that mean that the Skippa encrypts recordings or somehow applies DRM to the content? Skippa clearly doesn't have any slots for CI / CAM or other conventional hardware module based CA, so what is this referring to? What kind of conditional access system does the Skippa use and why? We are talking about free to air TV here, so the content being received is not encumbered with any conditional access.
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: IanL-S on September 26, 2015, 09:10:22 AM
I had a read of the online manual as at 25 Sep 2015 and am concerned by this statement on page 62:
Quote
Hacking of the conditional access system or facilitating anyone else doing so is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. Failure to adhere to this prohibition is a criminal offence.

Does that mean that the Skippa encrypts recordings or somehow applies DRM to the content? Skippa clearly doesn't have any slots for CI / CAM or other conventional hardware module based CA, so what is this referring to? What kind of conditional access system does the Skippa use and why? We are talking about free to air TV here, so the content being received is not encumbered with any conditional access.

My understanding is that the recordings are not encrypted. I suspepect the statement relates back to the prior paragraph: "IceTV own the intellectual property specifically associated with the SKIPPA functionality and IceTV guide."

Ian

PS Something weird with their versioning of the Manual; the printed manual (how unusual) that came with my SKipp is version 1.2 AND that information is on p 69; the current online version is also 1.2 and it is on p.61 /////
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: Dave at IceTV on September 26, 2015, 04:32:40 PM
PS Something weird with their versioning of the Manual; the printed manual (how unusual) that came with my SKipp is version 1.2 AND that information is on p 69; the current online version is also 1.2 and it is on p.61 /////
[/quote]

The hard copy versions of the manual have some extra blank pages inserted in places so that the contents or index pages etc are not on the left hand side.
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: IanL-S on September 26, 2015, 04:35:59 PM
PS Something weird with their versioning of the Manual; the printed manual (how unusual) that came with my SKipp is version 1.2 AND that information is on p 69; the current online version is also 1.2 and it is on p.61 /////

The hard copy versions of the manual have some extra blank pages inserted in places so that the contents or index pages etc are not on the left hand side.
[/quote]

Thanks for the clarification Dave.
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: Dave at IceTV on September 26, 2015, 04:49:13 PM
I had a read of the online manual as at 25 Sep 2015 and am concerned by this statement on page 62:
Quote
Hacking of the conditional access system or facilitating anyone else doing so is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. Failure to adhere to this prohibition is a criminal offence.

Does that mean that the Skippa encrypts recordings or somehow applies DRM to the content? Skippa clearly doesn't have any slots for CI / CAM or other conventional hardware module based CA, so what is this referring to? What kind of conditional access system does the Skippa use and why? We are talking about free to air TV here, so the content being received is not encumbered with any conditional access.

That text is probably left over from the raw manual source document which was possibly based on a satellite or pay TV box's manual and missed by the proof readers. There is a blanked out CAM / CI card slot behind the door that hides the 7 front panel but there's no CAM / CI slot hardware behind it.

As far as I know the Skippa does not encrypt free to air recordings or apply DRM to the recorded files. I can copy the free to air recordings to a USB drive or via the .ts file's UPnP url or stream them to non-DRM apps.
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: Leon K on September 27, 2015, 04:02:42 PM
I had a read of the online manual as at 25 Sep 2015 and am concerned by this statement on page 62:
Quote
Hacking of the conditional access system or facilitating anyone else doing so is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. Failure to adhere to this prohibition is a criminal offence.

Does that mean that the Skippa encrypts recordings or somehow applies DRM to the content? Skippa clearly doesn't have any slots for CI / CAM or other conventional hardware module based CA, so what is this referring to? What kind of conditional access system does the Skippa use and why? We are talking about free to air TV here, so the content being received is not encumbered with any conditional access.

Hey guys,

This statement in the manual refers specifically to the IceTV login and related subscription detection on SKIPPA (account and AutoSkip), and prohibits hacking / decompiling of the firmware in any way - particularly in terms of this subscription detection mentioned above.
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: peteru on September 27, 2015, 10:02:57 PM
This statement in the manual refers specifically to the IceTV login and related subscription detection on SKIPPA (account and AutoSkip), and prohibits hacking / decompiling of the firmware in any way - particularly in terms of this subscription detection mentioned above.

First of all, the term "conditional access" has a very specific meaning in the STB/PVR industry, so the choice of that terminology is a bit unfortunate. You may wish to revise it.

However, moving onto a more important matter, I think you may have a few issues here...

As far as I can tell from all the info on the forums, the box is based on a Broadcom STB reference design. That means it's running a Linux kernel, which is licensed under the GPL. It's impractical (actually close to impossible) to build a modern Broadcom STB/PVR (especially one that can run Opera), without GPL, LGPL and other Open Source components. That means that not only is it perfectly OK for anyone to take apart the firmware and see how it works, but it also means that you have to provide the source code to the GPL and LGPL components, including any modifications you have made. On top of that, the LGPL also requires you to ship the code in such a way that anyone can replace the LGPL components with whatever alternative version they choose and still be able to rebuild a fully working firmware. That means that your code must be supplied in a format that is readily usable by anyone wishing to modify the firmware. Most commonly this is done by shipping proprietary code as a set of shared libraries with corresponding header files that provide a public API.

Of course, your intellectual property is still protected by your copyrights, but you can not restrict the rights that the end users have as a result of you choosing to use GPL, LGPL or other Open Source code to build the product.

The GPL and LGPL licenses (and probably other licenses, such as the JPEG library code) also require you to publish the licensing terms in your manuals. Even the most permissive licenses, such as 3-clause BSD License, require you to publish the license terms. You should probably talk to your OEM about third party and Open Source licensing compliance and get them to furnish you with the required licenses and corresponding code.
Title: Re: Skippa manual
Post by: Leon K on September 28, 2015, 01:50:08 PM
Hi Guys,

I've had an update on this - we will remove that line from the manual for the next manual version.

Cheers,
Leon