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IceTV General => General Discussions => Topic started by: Daniel Hall at IceTV on December 20, 2012, 03:31:26 PM

Title: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: Daniel Hall at IceTV on December 20, 2012, 03:31:26 PM
Hi Guys,

Just a quick heads up that we have soft launched a new feature this afternoon, failed timer notifications.

This will send you an email whenever your PVR sets a timer to failed. The email will include a link to the failed timer under the My Week page of the website and include the details the of the timer itself (including the message from the PVR).

This is an opt-in service and can be enabled under the My Account section of the website, under the Account details tab.

If you set it up please send us any feedback you have as we hope to evolve and refine this feature over time.
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: prl on December 20, 2012, 06:41:47 PM
 :) :)

Enabled!
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: Dave on December 20, 2012, 06:49:53 PM
Good feature Daniel.
What about notifications when IceTV cancels a recording?  I've had an issue or two where shows are cancelled and I knew nothing about it until after the program was aired and I didn't record it.
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: ChrisW on December 21, 2012, 09:46:49 PM
Some feedback for you....

Firstly, thanks for this feature.

Issue 1: I stopped a timer recording half way through as I decided I no longer wanted it. A few minutes later I received one of the new alerts indicating that the timer had failed.

Issue 2: I had 2 consecutive timers set for the same channel (20:30 and 21:30). At 21:33 I received an email alert saying that the first timer (20:30) had failed, even though the show had actually recorded correctly (albeit without end padding due to the second timer kicking in).

Equipment is a Beyonwiz.
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: grampus on December 21, 2012, 10:42:24 PM
I have a similar notification, see below.

The show as scheduled Ok, was being recorded.  Had not gone past my post padding time.  Was chase playing the recorded show.  Then after complete ion of the show, prior to scheduled stop time, I manually stopped the recording, and deleted the recording.
Device is a Beyonwiz P2

I have also had a second notification.a. The lead up was exactly the same.

See second notification.
I had been chase playing  both shows, and skipping between each as I caught up to the current time on each

Show Name:   So You Think You Can Dance
Channel:   Eleven
Time:   2012-12-21 19:30:00
Duration:   120
Device Label:   dpp2
Device Type:   Beyonwiz P1 or P2
Message from recorder:   
Last Updated:   2012-12-21 21:57:33.

Show Name:   Law & Order: Special Victims Unit
Channel:   ONE
Time:   2012-12-21 20:30:00
Duration:   60
Device Label:   dpp2
Device Type:   Beyonwiz P1 or P2
Message from recorder:   
Last Updated:   2012-12-21 21:42:34
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: Daniel Hall at IceTV on December 22, 2012, 05:28:14 PM
We've done some tweaking to this, alerts should no longer be generated after the timer start time.
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: prl on December 24, 2012, 09:15:36 AM
We've done some tweaking to this, alerts should no longer be generated after the timer start time.
Hmmm. I'm not sure what you've done, but I received two of the "failed timer" emails last night (23 Dec at 20:04 and 20:34), for shows that both started at 19:30 (one was 30 mins duration and the other 60min). The messages were each sent after the end of the nominal programming time, but before the end of the soft padding (set at 25 min). The shows recorded for their full prepadding+nominal record time, but without post-padding).

The padding was cut short because in each case there was another recording scheduled on the same service. This mean that even though the padding was cut short, only about a second or so of program material could have been lost, as the new recording was started.

The other thing is that the warning was sent out after it should have been of any use to me at all, since the timer had already been cut short when the email was sent. Given that these exchanges happen at 15 minute intervals, I guess that the error email could be sent out anything up to 15 min after the event. So even if it had warned about a real problem, it was too late.

Beyonwiz DP-Lite, firmware 01.07.350, ACT guide.

The warnings were:
Show Name:    Border Patrol NZ
Channel:    Prime Canberra
Time:    2012-12-23 19:30:00
Duration:    30
Device Label:    Xerxes
Device Type:    Beyonwiz DP-Lite
Message from recorder:    
Last Updated:    2012-12-23 20:04:32

Show Name:    The Manor Reborn
Channel:    ABC1
Time:    2012-12-23 19:30:00
Duration:    60
Device Label:    Xerxes
Device Type:    Beyonwiz DP-Lite
Message from recorder:    
Last Updated:    2012-12-23 20:34:31
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: ChrisW on December 24, 2012, 09:50:55 AM
I'm still getting alerts when a timer recording is manually terminated before the due end time.
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: grampus on December 24, 2012, 12:47:18 PM
Going back to the OP, I may have misread it.
I was under the impression that this would send an email if I had a warning Icon (yellow triangle).

Tried to test it out with that in mind.
Set an overlapping timer on a box that had 2 timers that would have been concurrent.

1. set overlapping timer.
2.  brought box out of standby.
3   At the first fetch cycle from the box, Ice Web site showed a yellow triangle as expected.
Since then saw another 3 cycles go by (3/4 of an hour), no email.

Not what I expected then?
I've left the failed timer in the server, it's due on thursday, just in case.  But don't really expect any interest at the moment.
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: prl on December 26, 2012, 05:46:10 PM
Going back to the OP, I may have misread it.
I was under the impression that this would send an email if I had a warning Icon (yellow triangle).
...
If you misread it, then so did I. That's exactly what I was expecting, too. Not to be that the recording had failed had failed to record whenall that had happened was that the padding time went into a following recording on the same service, which IMO is not in any way an error or unexpected behaviour.
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: csutak40 on December 27, 2012, 01:39:26 PM
My PC was down for two days, so two recordings failed to record.  I got notified about the one yesterday, but not the day before
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: prl on December 30, 2012, 06:24:50 PM
We've done some tweaking to this, alerts should no longer be generated after the timer start time.
I'm continuing to get alerts generated after the timer start time, apparently because timer post-padding has been cut short (or eliminated). Mostly for back-to-back recordings on the same service, but sometimes because two competing timers on other services start while padding is still running for a third timer. The emails are issued when the post-padding is cut short or eliminated.

Curiously, though, for back-to-back recordings on the same service, there's a warning issued that the post-padding of the earlier timer has been eliminated, but no warning that the pre-padding of the later timer has been eliminated.

I still haven't had an IceTV server side yellow triangle warning to see whether an email is generated from that. I'll set one up to see what happens.
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: prl on December 30, 2012, 06:42:57 PM
...
I still haven't had an IceTV server side yellow triangle warning to see whether an email is generated from that. I'll set one up to see what happens.
I set up a conflict with three simultaneous recordings for a two-recordings-only PVR, got the yellow triangle, but no email.

So the main thing that I hoped this notification system would do, doesn't appear to work. I'd like an email notification when previously non-conflicting timers are brought into conflict by schedule changes (either via changes in the nominal schedule, or through IceTV's tweaking of start times).

If there's no intention of having an email generated when the IceTV flags a "Recording failed" triangle, I'm going to disable the feature, because it currently doesn't seem to be doing anything useful for me.
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: lukem on December 31, 2012, 12:24:22 PM
Hi prl,

Our system logs indicate that an email notification was generated for you. Our mail logs suggest that your provider had temporarily disabled receipt of emails from our domain, but it appears it was eventually delivered.

We have released an update today so that any timers which have started but subsequently stopped or deleted do not generate a notification. This should account for any pre-padding that the box applies to the original timer.

Please let me know if you still experience difficulties.

Best Regards,
Luke
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: prl on December 31, 2012, 04:04:28 PM
Hi, Luke.

I received two emails from the notification system last night, 30 Dec. Both appear to be from cases of two consecutive recordings on the same service, The Manor Reborn followed by Pillars of the Earth (ABC1) and from Border Patrol NZ followed by Coastwatch (Prime Canberra). The emails were generated after the respective ends of Manor Reborn and Border Patrol. See below for the details.

Neither flag events that I am in the least bit interested in.

The conflict I deliberately generated was for tonight 31 Dec (but detected and flagged on the web site Dec 30, but no email).

I retrieve my IceTV emails via POP from Yahoo into Thunderbird. I retrieve all emails, including my Spam folder on Yahoo. I have checked my Spam and Trash folders on Thunderbird as well as my inbox. I've also checked for any IceTV emails via the Yahoo mail Web interface. There's no sign of an email for the warning triangle I generated.

The unwanted notifications I receive appear to be being generated by truncated post-padding on the Beyonwiz, rather than having anything to do with pre-padding. I have Beyonwiz padding priority set to None.

I'm unclear why you now are saying "We have released an update today so that any timers which have started but subsequently stopped or deleted do not generate a notification" when on 22 Dec, Daniel Hall wrote (http://forum.icetv.com.au/iceforum/index.php/topic,3691.msg18044.html#msg18044): "We've done some tweaking to this, alerts should no longer be generated after the timer start time."

Did the 22 Dec tweaks not work?

I'll wait to see whether the latest changes stop me receiving these belated and unwanted emails, and then I'll try generating a deliberate scheduling conflict again.

I'm still skeptical about the utility of this feature to me.

Peter

Notification at 20:18 30 Dec:
Show Name:    Border Patrol NZ
Channel:    Prime Canberra
Time:    2012-12-30 19:35:00
Duration:    30
Device Label:    Xerxes
Device Type:    Beyonwiz DP-Lite
Message from recorder:    
Last Updated:    2012-12-30 20:18:31

Notification at 20:33 30 Dec:
Show Name:    The Manor Reborn
Channel:    ABC1
Time:    2012-12-30 19:30:00
Duration:    60
Device Label:    Xerxes
Device Type:    Beyonwiz DP-Lite
Message from recorder:    
Last Updated:    2012-12-30 20:33:31
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: grampus on December 31, 2012, 09:36:19 PM
Just set up 3 timers on the one box for 12:00 Pm Tuesday .  Got the yellow triangle as expected on the web site, but no warning email.
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: grampus on December 31, 2012, 11:26:30 PM
I've terminated 2 recordings.
1:  prior to scheduled show end, and before post padding had happened.
2:  after the show was into post padding period.
I didn't receive an email from either.
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: lukem on January 01, 2013, 12:04:08 AM
Hi guys,

Thanks for your feedback.

I believe that we have now resolved the issues and look forward to hearing from you in the New Year :)

Best Regards and Happy New Year 2013!
Luke

Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: grampus on January 01, 2013, 07:23:25 AM
Hi Luke,
Happy New Year.

Retested this morning.

2 different scenarios.  Overlapping timers

1:  An existing timer that had failed, and still had warning notification on website.  Rescheduled it.
2:  Set up a new set of recordings with overlapping timer.

Got one email that showed both timers had failed.
The link to manage the recordings worked great.  Opened up the timer to the options that allowed modification or deletion.

Thanks for the dedication.
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: prl on January 01, 2013, 11:06:54 AM
Thanks, Luke.

I just created a recording clash with 3 simultaneous recordings, and shortly after the Beyonwiz connected to IceTV, I received an email from IceTV Support indicating that the recording timer had failed.

This is really the main thing I wanted from the feature, and thanks to the IceTV team for taking the feedback on board and getting it working.

I don't have a back-to-back timer set until tomorrow (Wed 2 Jan). I'll report how that goes.

Now I'm off to the Beyonwiz forum to grumble about the Beyonwiz firmware not providing anything for the IceTV server to put in the "Message from recorder" field. :)
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: lukem on January 01, 2013, 01:37:27 PM
Hi prl,

Thankyou for your kind assistance while we improve this new feature.

It looks like there's still a chance that an old failed timer will make it into the conflict list whenever a genuine conflict occurs. We're looking into this today and expect a quick resolution.

Best Regards,
Luke


Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: prl on January 03, 2013, 10:44:25 AM
I had back-to-back recordings of Grimm last night (Wed 3 Jan), and no "failed timer" email, as I had hoped.
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: prl on January 04, 2013, 07:18:40 PM
I've now had a failed timer email for a timer update that actually failed. The problem is that as far as I can tell, the update shouldn't have failed.

It's come about because of an IceTV tweak to the start time of an existing timer for Border Patrol NZ (Prime ACT, Sun 6 Jan published scheduled time 20:00). I have an existing timer for the show on the Beyonwiz set for 20:00, and the failure has occurred when IceTV tried to update the timer to 20:05.

The only other timers on the machine for 6 Jan are:
Restoration Home, ABC1 19:30-20:30
Homes under the Hammer, 7TWO 22:55-00:05

I can't see why the timer update would fail under these circumstances.

The IceTV failure message is:
            Show Name: Border Patrol NZ
              Channel: Prime Canberra
                 Time: 2013-01-06 20:05:00
             Duration: 30
         Device Label: Xerxes
          Device Type: Beyonwiz DP-Lite
Message from recorder:
         Last Updated: 2013-01-04 12:24:47


Since my padding means that I'll get the whole show anyway, I'll leave the timer as it is if anyone at IceTV wants to look into what went wrong.

Is there a problem here, Beyonwiz, IceTV or protocol that can cause updates of a timer update to fail if the old and the new timers overlap in time? I'm pretty sure it doesn't happen every time this happens, though.

Beyonwiz DP-Lite, firmware 01.07.350, ACT IceGuide.
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: tonymy01 on January 05, 2013, 11:53:34 AM
Interesting, and that also confirms what I have said in the past, that ICE doesn't send deletes for timers it incorrectly schedules (when I say incorrectly, I mean at some point after ICE sets the timer, if the schedule changes, they don't first send the delete before trying to re-set).
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: prl on January 05, 2013, 05:58:41 PM
Interesting, and that also confirms what I have said in the past, that ICE doesn't send deletes for timers it incorrectly schedules (when I say incorrectly, I mean at some point after ICE sets the timer, if the schedule changes, they don't first send the delete before trying to re-set).
Yes, except that I don't think it happens every time for these small shifts in updates.
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: prl on January 05, 2013, 06:00:25 PM
I've had another failed timer message for the same show. The only difference seems to be the Last Updated time: 2013-01-04 12:24:47 for the previous email, 2013-01-05 11:52:36 for this more recent one.
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: grampus on January 05, 2013, 09:40:16 PM
I've had an email to advise me that I had 2 timers fail, erroneously.
Both these are part of the same scenario.

I had a series timer setup to record Man Made Marvels on Ch 72.
During the day today, I decided that I didn't wish to record this series.
I deleted the series (series delete) from my recordings on the Ice website.
This deleted all the entries that were currently set on the website.

The Beyonwiz woke up at 7:30Pm to record a show set for that time.
I would have hoped that the timers set on the box would have been removed.
Not so.

Around 9:10 PM (the BW had been on for over 1 1/2 hours.) I decided to manually remove the 2 timers that I didn't want that were present, from  the BW.
These timers were a number of days in the future.
The following email was received.

**************************************
IceTV has received a notification from your video recorder that it was unable to record one of your shows due to an error. A link to your upcoming shows page and the details of the error are provided below for your convenience.
Regards,
The IceTV team.
________________________________________
Manage this recording
Channel:   7TWO
Time:   2013-01-07 19:30:00
Duration:   60
Device Label:   dpp2
Device Type:   Beyonwiz P1 or P2
Message from recorder:   
Last Updated:   2013-01-05 21:12:33
________________________________________
Manage this recording
Channel:   7TWO
Time:   2013-01-08 19:30:00
Duration:   60
Device Label:   dpp2
Device Type:   Beyonwiz P1 or P2
Message from recorder:   
Last Updated:   2013-01-05 21:12:33
________________________________________

*********************************************

Of interest I guess is to note that there is no show name identified.
And that if you try to "manage the recording", it just takes you to "my week".
I guess that particular part is fair enough as there is no timer set on the website anymore.

The part that is not right is the email should not have been generated in the first place.

Whether thats the BW sending an erroneous message.
Or the Ice server is misinterpreting a valid message.  Although I cannot imagine what that might be.





Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: Paul55 on January 07, 2013, 06:48:24 PM
Similar to Grampus,
Received one of these messages yesterday.
Have 'Revenge' set for series record and IceTV had correctly set one of my PVRs (Toppy 2400) to record tonight's episode. Yesterday morning I realised that, while it isn't a Repeat episode, it is a catch-up/summary of the previous season.
I cancelled the episode via the IceTV website and received the Notification of Failed Timer e-mail when the PVR came out of standby yesterday arvo.
The episode timer had been removed from the PVR - as I wished.
Should I have received a Failed Timer notification in this instance?
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: csutak40 on January 08, 2013, 01:26:04 PM
I am confused!  I am still using an XP machine, that that may not help, but I keep getting notified about non-existent timers

Channel: GO!
Time: 2013-01-09 03:55:00
Duration: 55
Device Label: Judy Bednar
Device Type: Microsoft Windows XP MCE
Message from recorder: Couldn't find schedule entry in MCE.
Last Updated: 2013-01-08 01:47:19

I had a similar one yesterday, I noticed it very late at night, so wasn't looking properly, didn't notice that the time of the supposed recording is also shown.  I just went to the link and saw nothing, but then scrolling down, I noticed that a recording was set for Fringe (two of them, can't remember which days) which shouldn't have been there, as they were both repeats.  This happens sometimes, so I just deleted them.  The above notification could be Fringe, but the time is not correct - supposed to start at 3.40.  Actually, more confusion - looking on my widget, it has 3.55, not 3.40

So, I think the notification IS for Fringe, but there is now no timer set for it, so why the notification at all?
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: grahford on January 12, 2013, 08:17:13 PM
I can't believe I missed this.

Got a question.  Will this notify only if something has failed to record, or will it let me know in advance if something is probably about to fail.

That is, if I still have a hollow red donut 24 hours before the program is due to record will it notify me and hopefully I'll be able to fix it before I miss the show?

In the last 6 months my topfield has dropped the network connection a couple of times and nobody noticed till after a week had passed and the wife became aware her favourite shows had stopped being recorded.  When I went to the site the 'my week' tab was full of red donuts which hadn't been sent and turned into full circles due to my topfield being offline.
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: prl on January 12, 2013, 11:55:45 PM
It's not quite clear exactly what will trigger a failed timer email. If the failure causes an orange warning triangle, the email appears to be sent when the PVR sends the failure message that causes the warning to be displayed.

The email appears to be sent if IceTV sends a timer to the PVR, and the PVR sends an error message back. That clearly can't happen is the network connection is down.

Like much of IceTV, how this all really works just isn't described in any detail anywhere.
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: grahford on January 13, 2013, 12:27:37 PM
Darn.  I rarely get those kind of issues.  My errors are almost always hollow circles not being correctly received.
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: prl on January 13, 2013, 01:28:38 PM
Darn.  I rarely get those kind of issues.  My errors are almost always hollow circles not being correctly received.
Some "hollow circle" problems are not actually errors. We keep our (Beyonwiz) PVRs in standby except when they're being used. If I have a timer for a recording already set by IceTV, and then IceTV updates the recording (eg adjusts the time) in their database, and the PVR is in standby, I'll see the hollow circle in My Week until the PVR next starts up and syncs with IceTV, when the hollow circle will usually go solid. Very occasionally this problem doesn't right itself.

Of course, if there's a network problem, then the hollow circles are indeed an indication of a problem, but then it will normally be hollow circles for all recordings after a certain time.

Because IceTV is a "pull" protocol (the client initiates the sync), there can only really be positive indications of errors when the PVR contacts IceTV. The warning emails could only really be sent for network failures if there was some sort of "warn if there's been no client contact for X days" rule.
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: grahford on January 13, 2013, 06:59:04 PM
The warning emails could only really be sent for network failures if there was some sort of "warn if there's been no client contact for X days" rule.

Sounds perfect :)
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: mikeathome on January 21, 2013, 02:10:03 PM
I had two failed timer emails the day the service started and none since. I took one of my PVRs with me on holidays for 10 days where there was no ICE communications with it, surely all the timers that were appropriate for this period should have generated emails as they could not be set? Is this facility still operating?
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: lukem on January 21, 2013, 02:27:49 PM
Hi Mike,

The current notification feature will alert you when your PVR tells the IceTV servers that there has been a scheduling problem. So, if there were no communications you would have not received any alerts.

Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: mikeathome on January 21, 2013, 10:40:05 PM
That explains it, thanks. Can I suggest that an additional facility be added when convenient that emails me when interactive wants to set a timer but that timer is not set. My expectation is that if I ask for a show to be recorded it will be - but if it isn't going to be for whatever reason it would be useful to know that too.
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: prl on January 21, 2013, 10:54:47 PM
That explains it, thanks. Can I suggest that an additional facility be added when convenient that emails me when interactive wants to set a timer but that timer is not set. My expectation is that if I ask for a show to be recorded it will be - but if it isn't going to be for whatever reason it would be useful to know that too.
Such a mechanism would need to take into account that some people only run their PVRs when they are actively being used. I don't want a bunch of emails sent out to me between when IceTV does their main daily update (still at about 14:00, I think) and when my PVRs run and connect to IceTV (usually) in the evening.

Remember, in some sense IceTV never actively tries to set a timer. It waits for the PVR to contact it and ask if IceTV has any timer updates.
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: mikeathome on January 22, 2013, 10:47:43 AM
Yeah, i hadn't thought about that. I also leave my units on standby. I think I recall reading that timers are normally sent to the PVRs a week in advance of the recording (where they have been set). I would be happy to get an email warning say 6hr before a failed timer was due to start. Maybe the time period would need tweaking but something like that would suit.
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: prl on January 22, 2013, 12:08:57 PM
That sounds better. I agree that the time period would need some tweaking. Six hours might not suit people in full-time work, so a bit longer might be good. Perhaps user selectable?

Timers are sent five days before they are due to run, however, they can be updated after that.
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: Fester on January 30, 2013, 07:19:05 PM
Had a failed timer last night, yellow triangle indicated on website, Paked To The Rafters, no email notification.
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: prl on January 31, 2013, 03:02:38 PM
ACT Guide; Beyonwiz DP-Lite; firmware 01.07.350

I've had another email notification of a failed timer update where the update should not have failed. Until yesterday, I had scheduled recordings of Grimm on Prime at 21:30 and 22:30 tonight 31 Jan, each 60 minutes. IceTV tinkered with the times to move them to 21:35, 60min and 22:35, 55min. The update of the earlier timer failed, and so the timers on the Beyonwiz are for 21:30-22:30 (not updated, yellow warning triangle and timer failure email) and for 22:35-23:30.

I had a similar problem (http://forum.icetv.com.au/iceforum/index.php/topic,3691.msg18087.html#msg18087) with update failure due to timer tweaking, but it only involved a single timer update, not a double update of back-to-back timers.

The other timers set for tonight were: Nigelissima ABC1 20:30-21:00 and The Hour ABC1 21:00-22:00.

Neither the old timers before the time tweak for Grimm nor the new timers with the Grimm time tweak should cause any timer failure on the Beyonwiz.

Fortunately, padding on the Beyonwiz will catch the time between 22:30 and 22:35 for the Grimm recordings, so I'll leave the timers as they are if anyone at IceTV wants to have a look at this.

If this sort of thing is going to keep happening, I'd rather that IceTV left the timers where they were for small tweaks like this and the padding that I have set anyway will catch over-runs of that sort of size.
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: Fester on February 13, 2013, 04:06:17 PM
This feature is working well for me now. Have had a couple of failed timers in the last five days, yellow icon on website, email each time, good work.

Topfield TRF-2460
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: mikeathome on February 20, 2013, 12:01:10 PM
I've had a couple of emails this week warning that timers have not been set, reason

Message from recorder:   TASK_MSG_INVALID_SERVICE

for the 22nd, ABC2 and ONE. What does this message mean?
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: Dave at IceTV on February 20, 2013, 12:19:08 PM
I've had a couple of emails this week warning that timers have not been set, reason

Message from recorder:   TASK_MSG_INVALID_SERVICE

for the 22nd, ABC2 and ONE. What does this message mean?
That message from the recorder is supposed to mean that IceTV tried to set a recording for a channel that is not on the recorder.  But PVRs often use it when the program could not be found in the guide. This could be because the guide is blank, or partially blank, or that program's entry has been updated on the IceTV server but the PVR still has the old entry in the guide. As long as the guide on the PVR matches the guide in your account on the website you can just reschedule that failed recording from My Week or TV Guide.
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: mikeathome on February 20, 2013, 02:56:56 PM
Thanks for that. AFAIK the guide has not been blank, certainly not while the PVR has been on and in use. And the guide has in it what ICE has put there, there's no other way to change it that I know of. 

For those of us who put out PVRs into standby, and where ICE change the program info, it will be normal for the ICE server to contain different EPG information to that on the PVR, as the latter has to be turned on for a while to update.  Wouldn't it be preferable for the revised EPG to be sent by the server to the PVR first, and only after that has been successful to send the reservations?
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: grampus on February 20, 2013, 03:38:41 PM
This sequence of events is controlled by the PVR.  Not the server.

It requests the information as opposed to the server pushing the info.

When it comes out of standby, the BeyonWiz requests for the EPG first, then the timers.



Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: Dave at IceTV on February 20, 2013, 04:58:19 PM
Thanks for that. AFAIK the guide has not been blank, certainly not while the PVR has been on and in use. And the guide has in it what ICE has put there, there's no other way to change it that I know of. 
Some recorders can insert parts of the free to air EPG data into the guide under various circumstances.

But what I was suggesting was that maybe the start time or duration for the affected show was different on the PVR to what is on the website. It is probably correct now. You would really need to check it within 15 minutes of the timer failing to be set.

For those of us who put out PVRs into standby, and where ICE change the program info, it will be normal for the ICE server to contain different EPG information to that on the PVR, as the latter has to be turned on for a while to update.  Wouldn't it be preferable for the revised EPG to be sent by the server to the PVR first, and only after that has been successful to send the reservations?
Some PVR models, or firmware versions, can sometimes incorrectly try to set schedules before updating the EPG. This would only be a problem if the EPG for the show being scheduled had changed since the PVR last fetched the guide.
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: mikeathome on February 20, 2013, 05:54:04 PM
The error message that I referred to in my post above can only apparently occur when a timer is sent and the EPG on the PVR is blank, or a timer refers to an event where the EPG on the PVR and the EPG on the ICE website are different.

These situations can never occur if the EPG data on the PVR is always updated before the timers are processed.

One way to help facilitate this is for ICE to send the EPG data to the PVR before it sends the timer transactions when any communication between the two systems happens. It has to be at the ICE end, the PVR does not know whether there are EPG changes due to be made and therefore due to arrive in the next transaction stream, nor does it know whether there are any timers coming.

Grampus suggests that the PVR requests the EPG data and, after that, the Timer data when it comes out of standby. But EPG changes and Timers are sent at other times according to an ICE determined schedule as I recall, not requested by the PVR.  If so, we are left with the case where the EPG is changed by ICE and not promulgated to the PVR before the timers are sent.

This suggests that EPG change promulgation and Timer promulgation are separated in time, and if a scheduled timer "send" happens after an Ice EPG change but before that EPG change is promulgated to the PVR, the error situation described above can occur.

Why not just make the two events always coincide?
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: prl on February 20, 2013, 10:01:47 PM
... But EPG changes and Timers are sent at other times according to an ICE determined schedule as I recall, not requested by the PVR. ...
IceTV data is only sent at the request of the PVR. There's no way that IceTV can send data to the PVR of its own accord. IceTV does limit how frequently fetches can be made, and it assists the PVR to keep to that by telling the PVR when it should next connect. That is done each time the PVR requests data. The protocol allows for different update frequencies for EPG and timers.
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: mikeathome on February 25, 2013, 11:24:09 AM
Well I'm happy to be corrected about that. But the issues that I raised remain. I'm getting lots of emails which can only apparently be caused by the EPG and the timers getting out of kilter. Surely I am not the only ICE user in this situation. Given that my PVR firmware has not been altered, something at the ICE end must have been changed to cause this message and the failure of timers that never used to be a problem.

Why can't that be fixed?
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: cvee72 on February 25, 2013, 01:28:46 PM
Hi Michael,

I'm in the same boat.
Posted this issue in Topfield forum and was suggested to reset topfield.
This worked for about a week, then the problem started up again.

I'm back to 1, sometimes 2 failed notifications every day.
I cannot trust recording on the Toppy via IceTV.

Even shows that successfully schedule all of a sudden disappear after i get the failure.
I have been away from home and missed some shows, because i get the email notification but cannot go home to manually set the recording.

Doing a reschedule via IceTV iphone app only sometimes works.

If this is not resolved i doubt i'll be signing up for further service.
I've got my Tivo doing double duty now.

Very disappointing, and it seems each side is pointing the finger to the other.
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: mikeathome on February 25, 2013, 01:54:52 PM
The ICE guys are pretty good about fixing problems once they find out about it and then have accepted it as something down to them. There's been little discussion about it here so perhaps they believe it's not a real issue worth bothering about.
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: Dave at IceTV on February 25, 2013, 04:37:26 PM
The ICE guys are pretty good about fixing problems once they find out about it and then have accepted it as something down to them. There's been little discussion about it here so perhaps they believe it's not a real issue worth bothering about.
Hi Mike,

Please don't mistake silence for apathy. We are looking into the cause of the issue.
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: mikeathome on March 04, 2013, 05:18:04 PM
Ok, given that a remedy seems to be taking a while, and I am still getting emails saying that timers have failed when they shouldn't have, if I revert to the previous position where I did not select email notifications, will the failed timer problem go away?
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: cvee72 on May 06, 2013, 02:52:20 PM
The ICE guys are pretty good about fixing problems once they find out about it and then have accepted it as something down to them. There's been little discussion about it here so perhaps they believe it's not a real issue worth bothering about.
Hi Mike,

Please don't mistake silence for apathy. We are looking into the cause of the issue.

Its now 6th of May.....  seems like apathy to me.
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: Dave at IceTV on May 07, 2013, 07:23:08 PM
Don't you think if everyone was still having a problem that there'd be lots of posts here.
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: rippernz on July 17, 2013, 09:49:39 PM
Over the last couple of days i have been getting the failed timer notification.

Everything has been good and all of a sudden start getting these.



Show Name:   Hamish And Andy's Asia Gap Year
Channel:   Nine Digital
Time:   2013-07-22 20:05:00
Duration:   60
Device Label:   Topfield TRF-2400
Device Type:   Topfield TRF-2400
Message from recorder:   TASK_MSG_INVALID_SERVICE
Last Updated:   2013-07-17 20:43:58

Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: rippernz on July 18, 2013, 07:03:56 PM
and not they have all shown up.

No change
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: Dave at IceTV on July 20, 2013, 01:24:24 PM
The TASK_MSG_INVALID_SERVICE message from a Topfield can mean that the show being scheduled did not exactly match any show in the guide.

This can happen when the start time or duration is changed for a show that already has a reservation set on the Topfield. Then the Topfield seems to try to set the updated reservation before it has updated the guide.
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: rickym on May 07, 2014, 08:49:08 PM
Hi everyone,

I have been OS for some time and had a series of programs set to record on my PVR -- a Topfield.  Now I discover that nothing has recorded since March 17 >:(. 

From my own investigations, I have learned that massive changes occurred with regular transmissions at that time.  Programs are set to record in My Week -- a couple most days.  Consequently, I have lost a heap of recordings and guess there is nothing I can do about it -- it's gone.

Incidentally, the TV didn't work either, but I reset all the channels and it's sweet now.  However, How can I get IceTV recordings back on track please? 

Cheers,

Rick
Title: Re: New Feature - Failed timer notifications
Post by: IanL-S on May 09, 2014, 07:56:24 AM
Toppys have an unfortunate habit of going into meltdown when left to their own devices. Not sure what causes it, and given the problems wit the TV it may be something else is going on.

Some things that may minimise misconduct include disabling timeshift, and putting the Toppy into standby. It may also be useful to have the autoreboot TAP in StartUp folder to deal with the Toppy freezing. Another thing is to makes sure there is sufficient space to record the scheduled recordings, and to use the AutoMove TAP to move recordings in to subfolders.

Ian