IceTV Forum

IceTV Guide for IceTV enabled PVRs => Humax => Topic started by: The_Hawk on March 08, 2012, 07:14:54 PM

Title: Padding Missing?
Post by: The_Hawk on March 08, 2012, 07:14:54 PM
I have noticed the last few days that the padding on my recordings doesn't exist which means that I am missing things like the news headlines because they seem to start just before the timer every day.  Anyone else having this issue?

I have deleted the schedules today and have re-added them via the web... will see if that helps or not?
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: swamprat96 on March 09, 2012, 07:35:53 AM
So have you set the padding up? The maximum is 20 minutes which can still be not enough
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: The_Hawk on March 09, 2012, 08:07:43 AM
Padding always has been setup for 3 minutes before and after and while I accept this may not be enough in all instances, when was the last time a show started EARLY??

That said, the 6pm News is one of those things that pretty much always starts bang on 6pm.  I have always found that if you went by clock the STB's clock (including my old Foxtel box and the Humax) you were 15 - 30 seconds late if you started recording right on 6pm.  Adding in a couple of minutes at the start fixed the problem.

But back to my specific issue, the old recordings were all 35/36 minutes where the last couple have been 29/30 minutes and cut off the first 30 seconds.

Like I said, last night I removed the schedule for the news and re-added them (via the web) and have upped the padding to 5 minutes to see what happens with tonight's recordings.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: prl on March 09, 2012, 09:51:28 AM
Padding always has been setup for 3 minutes before and after and while I accept this may not be enough in all instances, when was the last time a show started EARLY??
Shows frequently start early. Over on the DTV Forum, Dr P has recently provided a list (http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=95076&view=findpost&p=1786743) of shows that started more than 5 minutes early.

Three minutes post-padding will almost certainly see you missing the end of the majority of prime-time commercial shows broadcast after the main news bulletin of the day. I have 25 minutes post padding set on my Beyonwizes. One Big Brother final (can't recall the year) went more than 50 minutes over time. DrP's list also shows that even 25 minutes would not be enough post-padding in some circumstances, but I don't often have problems on the shows I record. I have 2 minutes pre-padding, and I sometimes miss the beginning of a show.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: rossl on March 11, 2012, 06:06:06 PM
I originally had a Topfield 5000 and early last year, added a TRF2460 to the family. I've still only got a SD RPTV but in preparation for some upgrading to HD in the near future, I decided to replace the aging Topfield 5000 (also IDE hard drives are getting a bit hard to find) with a Humax.

I purchased my Humax at the end of August last year (with the lifetime IceTV subscription, which was one of the major selling points for me) and have had ongoing problems with the padding from day one. I don't normally have to worry about firmware updates as these are downloading and installing automatically, so I've always got the latest version. The Humax and Toppy are both hard wired into my home network.

Padding on my Humax has always been flakey. I've always had mine set to +3 at start and +20 at end. Sometimes I get no padding at all, other times the padding is correct. Dave from IceTV Support also advised me that there is a known problem when recording 2 different channels and the programs overlap. Although it shouldn't, this does impact padding usually resulting in none at all. He recommended I report the problem to Humax.

I sent an email to Humax about my issues and received a brief message back from one of the staff who advised he was one of the technicians working on the problem and that they needed a bit more time (that was nearly 3 weeks ago). I also had an email from Dave at IceTV support 6 days after the Humax reply advising that Humax "(finally) admitted the problem with padding on their boxes when using the Ice guide. We have worked out why it's not working (when the TV guide's end time doesn't match our end time) and Humax are working on a new firmware". I don't believe this is the only issue with padding but I don't know if Humax acknowledge that.

Because of the problems with the padding and the inability of most TV stations to start or finish a program on time, I have now had to revert to using the Humax effectively as a single tuner PVR. Generally, if only one program is being recorded, then the padding works most of the time, but not always.

The latest firmware update (V1.05.01) seems to be worse than the previous version regards padding. It has also introduced a new problem relating to the automated moving of series recordings into their own file folders. That was working reasonably well before (not 100% but close) whereas since the update, most recordings are not being moved into their folders.

I don't have problems with padding on the Toppy, so now anything I want to record reliably with padding goes on either the Toppy or the Foxtel IQ2 which also doesn't have any problems with padding.

I am very disappointed with the Humax. Coming from the European market, I thought it would be reasonably mature in its development. It has a lot of promise and some nice features, but at present, I certainly wouldn't recommend it to anyone. I only wish I had bough a second TRF2460 instead of the Humax.


Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: toppytools on March 11, 2012, 07:42:26 PM
The problem with the padding is (according to a Humax engineer) that the HDR-7500T uses the in-band guide data from the TV channel to calculate the padding and when the in-band guide data differs from the IceTV guide data the Humax drops the padding. In extreme cases it even seems to reduce the recording length!

The other issue is that 20 minutes end padding is not enough sometimes.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: ozpowell on March 14, 2012, 08:28:23 PM
Glad I found this thread.  I have previously sent an email to Humax support regarding this issue without any kind of response.  Happy to see someone at the company is working on the problem.  Hopefully it will be resolved in the next fw update.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: Dave at IceTV on March 15, 2012, 03:48:23 PM
Hi ozpowell,

The only emails I can find from yourself were to sales in early January.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: ozpowell on March 15, 2012, 09:36:20 PM
Hi Dave,

I emailed Humax support a couple weeks ago, not IceTV.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: jeisner on April 05, 2012, 08:39:46 PM
Same problem, I have padding set to 10 mins before and 20 mins after for Alcatraz, I am recording nothing else that night but it always records exactly 60mins (no padding) and misses the end of the show... Hopeless, and yes I am running the latest firmware..

I am a little frustrated as I have bought 3 different units from ICETV (strong then Topfield masterpiece 2400 and now this humax) and none of them have been reliable in recording shows, though all in different ways.. My IQ2 has NEVER missed a show or cut it off..
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: ozpowell on April 08, 2012, 11:36:42 AM
This problem has been much worse for me over the last week or so. Almost every recording has no padding now....  :(
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: lingfish on April 09, 2012, 07:46:58 PM
I have this problem too it seems.

I thought there were other recordings following it  and I was going insane.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: andya on April 09, 2012, 08:55:18 PM
Yep, have the same problem here as well .. The Mrs. isn't happy!
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: jeisner on April 10, 2012, 12:00:14 PM
Humax do not respond to emails on this issue (so far for me) and ICETV are pushing this unit as their top pick, and yet it has an important features that simply doesn't work.

Padding is essential for ICETV to work, and this unit is frustratingly unrealiable without it...

P.S. Has everyone who commented here emailed Humax, maybe if we ensure everone complains they may wake up and do something about it..
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: ozpowell on April 10, 2012, 01:57:14 PM
Humax do not respond to emails on this issue (so far for me) and ICETV are pushing this unit as their top pick, and yet it has an important features that simply doesn't work.

Padding is essential for ICETV to work, and this unit is frustratingly unrealiable without it...

P.S. Has everyone who commented here emailed Humax, maybe if we ensure everone complains they may wake up and do something about it..

I emailed Humax about this issue and didn't receive any response.  However, it does appear (from other other posts in this forum) that Humax and IceTV are working together on a fix...

Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: Dave at IceTV on April 10, 2012, 04:00:53 PM
Hey guys,

Thanks for the feedback. We are trying to isolate the cause of the problem. So I have a quick question for people suffering from missing padding.

What TV network's recordings regularly do not record with the padding?

Is it Nine, GEM and GO?

Or Seven, 7two and 7mate?

Or Ten, Eleven and One?

Or ABC channels?

Or SBS channels?
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: lingfish on April 10, 2012, 06:01:46 PM
Hey guys,

Thanks for the feedback. We are trying to isolate the cause of the problem. So I have a quick question for people suffering from missing padding.

What TV network's recordings regularly do not record with the padding?


Off the top of my head, this is happening for the series Modern Family for me.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: swamprat96 on April 10, 2012, 07:21:07 PM
9 gem and go for me
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: ozpowell on April 11, 2012, 10:28:50 AM
I definitely recall having the problem on Nine, Seven, 7-Mate and Ten (which is every station I have series recordings on).  So, for me it doesn't appear to be network-specific.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: rossl on April 11, 2012, 12:37:50 PM
It has been happening to me an all networks, to the point that I am avoiding recording anything on the Humax if at all possible. First preference is now the Topfield, second is the Foxtel IQ and as a last resort, the Humax.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: ozpowell on April 11, 2012, 04:09:42 PM
Does anybody know if this problem is specific to Humax with IceTV, or does it happen with the freeview guide also?  I read a post earlier in this thread which indicates that the problem occurrs when the IceTV guide data doesn't match the Freeview data wrt program start/end times.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: lingfish on April 11, 2012, 04:52:17 PM
Does anybody know if this problem is specific to Humax with IceTV, or does it happen with the freeview guide also?  I read a post earlier in this thread which indicates that the problem occurrs when the IceTV guide data doesn't match the Freeview data wrt program start/end times.

I would have thought the Humax wouldn't give a crap for the FV guide if it's been told to use Ice...
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: ozpowell on April 11, 2012, 05:33:44 PM
Does anybody know if this problem is specific to Humax with IceTV, or does it happen with the freeview guide also?  I read a post earlier in this thread which indicates that the problem occurrs when the IceTV guide data doesn't match the Freeview data wrt program start/end times.

I would have thought the Humax wouldn't give a crap for the FV guide if it's been told to use Ice...

Lingfish,

See

http://forum.icetv.com.au/iceforum/humax/37/padding-missing/3333/msg16512#msg16512

and

http://forum.icetv.com.au/iceforum/humax/37/padding-missing/3333/msg16514#msg16514

for info from Humax support about this issue.  Just wondering if anyone has verified that Freeview does in fact work....
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: prl on April 11, 2012, 07:05:34 PM
The program information in those posts appears to be the Now/Next information, which is not part of the Freeview EPG.

Humax is not signed up as a Freeview EPG (http://freeview.com.au/products/) manufacturer.

There's a nice topic started by DrP on the DTV Forum about the
quality (http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=93526) (or otherwise) of the Freeview EPG. However, I doubt very much it has anything to do with the Humax problems being discussed here.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: lingfish on April 11, 2012, 07:27:40 PM


Lingfish,

See

http://forum.icetv.com.au/iceforum/humax/37/padding-missing/3333/msg16512#msg16512

and

http://forum.icetv.com.au/iceforum/humax/37/padding-missing/3333/msg16514#msg16514

for info from Humax support about this issue.  Just wondering if anyone has verified that Freeview does in fact work....

Yep, I've read that; I didn't get my point across I guess -- why bother consulting the FV data at all, was my point ;)  Seems like a horrid bug to me, getting more and more frustrating by the day considering how much the 7500 cost me.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: andya on April 11, 2012, 08:05:20 PM
Hey guys,

Thanks for the feedback. We are trying to isolate the cause of the problem. So I have a quick question for people suffering from missing padding.
What TV network's recordings regularly do not record with the padding?
Is it Nine, GEM and GO?
Or Seven, 7two and 7mate?
Or Ten, Eleven and One?
Or ABC channels?
Or SBS channels?

Seems to be random for me too, although most of my recording at the moment is on ABC (kids shows) , SBS and Nine .

For example, if you have a series recording for a 30 minute show that's on nightly and have a 3 minute padding at the start and 10 minute padding at the end, the total record time for the show should be 43 minutes .. if you look at the recorded shows for a week, you can see that some are 33 minutes (i.e end padding is missing) or 40 minutes (i.e start padding is missing).

Dave @ ICETV , try setting up a daily series recording with start and end padding and having the Humax switched 'off' and see whether you see the same thing .. 
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: prl on April 11, 2012, 10:35:49 PM
Without minimising the problems that the apparent use of the Now/Next data cause on Humax, there really is only one solution to the padding problem - for broadcasters to actually adhere to their schedules and put back ad/promo breaks between programs.

I'm not holding my breath on that one, though.

As I said before, the Now/Next data is not part of the Freeview EPG.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: jeisner on April 13, 2012, 03:54:15 PM
I have a masterpiece 2400 and the Humax 7500, the masterpeice is fine with padding only the humax has issues..

I seem to be missing both lead-in and lead-out padding, so my shows are exactly 30mins or 60mins etc

The shows I have noticed it on (off the top of my head) are 'Alcatraz' and 'Bondi Rescue' which are on Nine and Ten... [edit] I have just checked and ABC does it too, maybe 90% of the time, though I noticed that 'Top Gear' seems to be OK...

I tend to agree with an earlier post, in my experience the topfield seems the most reliable, the strong units reset all the time and get patched constantly without fixing anything until they discontinue the unit and stop supporting it, and I had nothing but trouble with the Beyonwiz DP-2 (exchanged for my topfield masterpiece) though others seem to love them..
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: Dave at IceTV on April 14, 2012, 05:58:44 PM
Quote
Does anybody know if this problem is specific to Humax with IceTV, or does it happen with the freeview guide also?
If you switch the Humax guide menu option to 'EPG Type = Humax' then it does not add padding at all to any recordings set as once, weekday, weekly or daily recordings. It does try to add padding to 'Humax series recordings' but not all channels provide guide data guide that supports series recordings and not all programs can be set as a series recording. So the padding does not work all the time even when not using IceTV.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: lingfish on April 14, 2012, 08:44:08 PM
Quote
Does anybody know if this problem is specific to Humax with IceTV, or does it happen with the freeview guide also?
If you switch the Humax guide menu option to 'EPG Type = Humax' then it does not add padding at all to any recordings set as once, weekday, weekly or daily recordings. It does try to add padding to 'Humax series recordings' but not all channels provide guide data guide that supports series recordings and not all programs can be set as a series recording. So the padding does not work all the time even when not using IceTV.

Wow.

So is progress being made on this issue?  My Humax is my first foray into PVRs via Ice, and had high hopes :/
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: swamprat96 on April 15, 2012, 08:05:47 AM
Even my old TVIX could handle this properly. I thought the way most pvr's work is that the guide simply tells the unit when to start and finish- ie it just replaces the manual method of setting a start and end time. Then once these times are set the unit just adds the extra time at either end.

The humax does a manual method of editing recording times-has anyone tried manually extending the length of the recording this way?. Whilst I appreciate its not a fault with ICEtv itself the unit  is still "not fit for purpose" and as ICEtv are selling it I'd expect them to be driving Humax to fix the issue or withdraw the product
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: lespato on April 15, 2012, 09:29:37 AM
Hi Dave

I have problems with padding on the 7 network. I record 7 mate quite a bit and the padding gives problems. Sometimes only half the show is recorded. I noticed the shows I record on the ABC always pad ok. Hope this helps.

When I re confirm my account it fixes things for a while.

Les
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: Dave at IceTV on April 15, 2012, 01:58:29 PM
So is progress being made on this issue?
Yes
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: Dave at IceTV on April 15, 2012, 02:07:08 PM
I thought the way most pvr's work is that the guide simply tells the unit when to start and finish- ie it just replaces the manual method of setting a start and end time. Then once these times are set the unit just adds the extra time at either end.
That's how it is supposed to work.

The humax does a manual method of editing recording times-has anyone tried manually extending the length of the recording this way?.
Extending the end time manually should work. Just click OK on the program in the schedule list, change the duration and then click on confirm.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: swamprat96 on April 15, 2012, 02:22:12 PM
Quote
Extending the end time manually should work. Just click OK on the program in the schedule list, change the duration and then click on confirm.

Confirmed- this workaround works. So we have a temporary fix whilst humax fixes its padding
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: prl on April 15, 2012, 03:46:04 PM
Quote
Extending the end time manually should work. Just click OK on the program in the schedule list, change the duration and then click on confirm.

Confirmed- this workaround works. So we have a temporary fix whilst humax fixes its padding
While this would work with repeated (e.g. daily or weekly) timers set on the PVR, it won't be very convenient with IceTV, because it normally only sends once-off timers, so you'd have to add padding to every recording (not just for each series) set up by IceTV.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: jeisner on April 15, 2012, 07:02:53 PM
Agreed manually editing is not a fix when using with ICETV as when you series link through ICETV it isn't loaded as a humax series and you can't just change the time of all upcoming events.. For this to be a workaround you would have to manually edit every show every week once it downloads from ICETV to the Humax, you might as well not bother linking it through ICETV..

Sorry but I am getting a little fed up (between this unit and my previous Strong unit) having to double check and fix the programs downloaded to my PVR from ICETV, it defeats the purpose of using ICETV and when I forget I miss the last 10-15 mins of shows as the free to air channels are never on time... Padding is an essential feature in my opinion, not just something nice to have...
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: ozpowell on April 16, 2012, 06:43:26 PM
So is progress being made on this issue?
Yes

Hi Dave,

I for one really appreciate the fact that you are keeping us in the loop on this issue via the forum.

Are you in a position at this stage to give us a rough eta on the fix?  Will it be in the form of an update to IceTV or a firmware update?

Thanks,
Michael.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: jeisner on April 17, 2012, 05:06:25 PM
Thats true ozpowell at least we get some response from ICETV, i.e. that it is a known issue, HUMAX just ignores emails asking about faults in their products...
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: ozpowell on April 26, 2012, 07:16:16 PM
Bump...

So is progress being made on this issue?
Yes

Hi Dave,

I for one really appreciate the fact that you are keeping us in the loop on this issue via the forum.

Are you in a position at this stage to give us a rough eta on the fix?  Will it be in the form of an update to IceTV or a firmware update?

Thanks,
Michael.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: Dave at IceTV on April 27, 2012, 08:30:27 PM
Are you in a position at this stage to give us a rough eta on the fix? 
No. But if I was to guesstimate I would say weeks rather than months.

Will it be in the form of an update to IceTV or a firmware update?
It could be both. I believe there is a firmware update coming anyway.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: ozpowell on April 28, 2012, 07:27:33 AM
Great - Thanks for the update Dave.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: lingfish on April 28, 2012, 10:45:19 AM

No. But if I was to guesstimate I would say weeks rather than months.


Looking forward to a fix -- because lets be honest here, the device is not working as advertised, or expected.  Padding alone was one of the huge selling points for me, because of moronic TV stations that can't even stick to their programs.

I was half ok with losing the ends of say, Modern Family... now I'm losing Six Feet Under and Scrubs!  NOOOOOO!

In the last week, for example, I have my scheduled recording for Six, and it doesn't start till around, 20 mins in, and the whole thing gets skewed and cut off.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: lingfish on May 01, 2012, 05:48:19 PM
Still nothing on this?

Do Humax not normally have coders on staff and are out hiring some? :P
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: prl on May 01, 2012, 05:55:44 PM
...
Do Humax not normally have coders on staff and are out hiring some? :P
Humax (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humax), like Beyonwiz and Topfield, is a South Korean company, and like Beyonwiz and Topfield, I'd assume that their coders are in South Korea. :) They also manufacture in Poland, India and China, but may or may not have coders there.

Testing PVRs for the Australian market is a bit of a problem in South Korea, because South Korea uses a different and incompatible digital TV standard from Australia.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: lingfish on May 01, 2012, 05:58:32 PM

Humax (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humax), like Beyonwiz and Topfield, is a South Korean company, and like Beyonwiz and Topfield, I'd assume that their coders are in South Korea. :) They also manufacture in Poland, India and China, but may or may not have coders there.

Testing PVRs for the Australian market is a bit of a problem in South Korea, because South Korea uses a different and incompatible digital TV standard from Australia.

Sure, but haven't we pretty much determined, and Ice have said, that it's down to something silly like it still refers to the FTA EPG even when told to use Ice, but only for padding?

We're not asking for Apache httpd to be ported to it ;)
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: jeisner on May 05, 2012, 12:28:58 AM
Humax (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humax), like Beyonwiz and Topfield, is a South Korean company, and like Beyonwiz and Topfield, I'd assume that their coders are in South Korea. :) They also manufacture in Poland, India and China, but may or may not have coders there.

Testing PVRs for the Australian market is a bit of a problem in South Korea, because South Korea uses a different and incompatible digital TV standard from Australia.

Well they could just ask Topfield what to do, they seem to be able to pad TV shows.. Though as has been suggested padding should have little to do with the digital TV standard...
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: jeisner on May 08, 2012, 01:43:00 PM
Got a response from Humax on the issue...

"we are working very hard on Padding Time issue associated with your recordings scheduled using the IceTV electronic program guide on your Humax HDR-7500T.

Timeline will be available once we know exact cause of the problem. "


It worries me that after 2 months they are still trying to find what is causing the issue...
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: lingfish on May 08, 2012, 03:54:22 PM

It worries me that after 2 months they are still trying to find what is causing the issue...

... on a feature that is an advertised part of, and selling point, of the product.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: jeisner on May 08, 2012, 04:20:59 PM
... on a feature that is an advertised part of, and selling point, of the product.

Well they didn't seem to like my suggestion that the unt is 'not fit for purpose', I will give them another month to fix it (3 months total) and if not fixed I will be pursuing a refund from ICETV (whom I bought it from) on this unit that is simply not working as advertised..

I suppose I will just get a second topfield masterpiece, costs more but it works reliably (as long as you use wired ethernet, wireless is a bit flakey in my experience)..
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: swamprat96 on May 08, 2012, 08:36:44 PM
Yeh I 'm with jeisner. I'm a little tired waiting for manufacturers to fix stuff after they've released it. I also plan to return my unit as not fit for purpose if this is not fixed by may end. This is the second brand I've had from icetv that's had no support from the manufacturer.

Whilst I feel for icetv they need to be more stringent with suppliers. Humax need a massive kick up the axxx if they want any kind of market penetration
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: ozpowell on May 08, 2012, 09:17:58 PM
I've now missed the end of Masterchef three nights running due to this issue >:(
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: swamprat96 on May 20, 2012, 07:58:05 AM
The silence is deafening from Humax. I'm glad I kept the packaging so it will be easier to return.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: jeisner on May 22, 2012, 10:14:06 AM
Well I asked Humax for a progress report and got the following from the lady I have been dealing with there..

Quote
Is your Power Saving in Standby and Automatic Power Down OFF?
MENU – SETTINGS – SYSTEM – POWER MANAGEMENT
You will see above two options ON as a default.
Please turn them off.
Then, please turn the box off using rear switch and turn it back on.

As a IceTV user you need to have HDR-7500T to communicate with the IceTV server all the time.
When Power Saving in Standby is ON, when HDR-7500T goes into the standby, it goes into what we call ‘passive standby’.
It means none of USB ports, network, terrestrial etc will operate during standby mode.
(Only those require to wake up HDR-7500T at scheduled time which were stored before HDR-7500T was put into standby will run)
Therefore, if you have above options off it will not communicate to the server and you will lose some recordings you set up during HDR-7500T was under standby and paddings on some recordings.

We were carrying out investigations on paddings as many customers were claiming contrary opinions on paddings.
We have collected valid testing results from comprehensive testing with IceTV EPG on HDR-7500T and very close to put an end on the padding issue.

Until we have final confirmation I cannot say whether there is any permanent resolution on padding issue but there may not be a need of any resolutions.

I am a bit confussed by this, my topfield shuts down and only receives recordings when it comes on (to either be watched or record something else) I like that solution as it works fine as long as you record a few shows a week and understand the limitation. And if padding is set it automatically comes on early to apply the padding..

The solution from Humax is a power waste as they suggest the unit stays on 24/7....  >:(

EDIT: This makes sense now, so what may be happening is you schedule a show for 8pm, if the unit is switched off (power saving standby) leading up to the show starting it won't come on until 8pm at which point it missing the lead-in paddnig and then must decide not to do lead-out too if it missed the in? BUT If you leave the unit on all the time (or it is on at the time the show is scheduled to start) it will see the show is meant to start in 10 mins and you have 10mins padding so it begins early (this is why we see inconsistant results)...  This is the only way her explanation of how to resolve the issue makes sense to me, if so, this is NOT how other units work and really is a fault but they are going to try and avoid having to fix it by telling us all to leave our units on 24/7 in order to resolve it...

The "may not be a need of any resolutions" comment worries me.. Humax, do not try and back out of fixing this, there is still definately a need for a resolution, no other unit I know of on the market requires you to disable power saving standby so that padding works....

P.S. Can others try testing this, I will test tonight..
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: lingfish on May 22, 2012, 01:27:44 PM
The solution from Humax is a power waste as they suggest the unit stays on 24/7....  >:(

Totally agree, and this is not the behaviour I've seen... mine happily sits in standby and pulls down new shows to record etc, without needing to power it on.

EDIT: This makes sense now, so what may be happening is you schedule a show for 8pm, if the unit is switched off (power saving standby) leading up to the show starting it won't come on until 8pm at which point it missing the lead-in paddnig and then must decide not to do lead-out too if it missed the in? BUT If you leave the unit on all the time (or it is on at the time the show is scheduled to start) it will see the show is meant to start in 10 mins and you have 10mins padding so it begins early (this is why we see inconsistant results)... 

The issue isn't padding at the start... it's at the end, I thought.  It is for me.

The "may not be a need of any resolutions" comment worries me.. Humax, do not try and back out of fixing this, there is still definately a need for a resolution, no other unit I know of on the market requires you to disable power saving standby so that padding works....

Yep, agree again, and is the reason I bought the unit -- I'm big on saving power.  If this is their "fix", that's a second "not as advertised" failure on their part.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: jeisner on May 22, 2012, 04:16:30 PM
Totally agree, and this is not the behaviour I've seen... mine happily sits in standby and pulls down new shows to record etc, without needing to power it on.

So does mine, I had another email from her trying to get clarification and she seemed to be saying in the deep power saving standby (rather than non power saving standby) not all 'programs' run and I need to disable the power saving standby. It still goes into what looks like standby when you disable power saving standby but she said it is like a phone with the screen off, it is still partially running. As I understand it in that mode rather than the full standby the padding should still work..

It got confusing at that point really as on one hand she said in both standby modes padding should work but on the other the developers told her to tell people to disable the deep power saving mode in order to fix these problems.. Complete contradiction if you ask me..

The issue isn't padding at the start... it's at the end, I thought.  It is for me.

It's both for me but maybe if the start is broken then the end is too? I don't know her explanation makes little sense to me... It seems like the coding is screwed up and the developers are trying to avoid the issue, too much work to fix it?

Yep, agree again, and is the reason I bought the unit -- I'm big on saving power.  If this is their "fix", that's a second "not as advertised" failure on their part.

Yes well the <1W standby is no longer valid it should have an * next to it pointing out not all features work if you use this mode (which btw is the default standby mode)..
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: lingfish on May 22, 2012, 04:22:07 PM

So does mine, I had another email from her trying to get clarification and she seemed to be saying in the deep power saving standby (rather than non power saving standby) not all 'programs' run and I need to disable the power saving standby.

Honestly, I didn't even know there were multiple modes... I thougt there was soft power off, and the hard switch at the back, and that's it.  Obviously hard switching would kill all features.

Yes well the <1W standby is no longer valid it should have an * next to it pointing out not all features work if you use this mode (which btw is he default standby mode)..

I'd be super shocked if that's what they mean... as I said, and you too, the out-of-the-box soft power down mode seems to work just fine... I honestly believe this person is talking about something else... wires crossed etc.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: swamprat96 on May 22, 2012, 08:14:27 PM
My icetv subscription is up may 28. I've been waiting for this issue to be fixed and if what I'm reading is correct there may be no fix. I've also emailed icetv about this saying I'll renew but if the issue is not fixed I'd like a refund for unused subscription and I'll be returning the unit as unfit for use.

I've surprisingly heard nothing from icetv. I've almost given up hearing anything from Humax Australia. I may give up on both.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: jeisner on May 22, 2012, 11:09:35 PM
I'd be super shocked if that's what they mean... as I said, and you too, the out-of-the-box soft power down mode seems to work just fine... I honestly believe this person is talking about something else... wires crossed etc.

I don't know, she is the only person at humax that responds to me.. I did try tonight just turning my unit on before "the block" started (normally it is off and starts itself) and for the first time since the series started the padding worked, so it seems to me there may be some truth in it, i.e. coming on from power saving mode screws up the padding... Could be coincidence? I also changed the power saving mode as suggested and will see how I go..

This is the phone program analogy email she sent me to try and explain the modes when I tried to get clarification.

Quote
Sorry if it wasn’t clear but I didn’t mean that HDR-7500T had to be physically ON 24/7.
The differences of ‘Power Saving in Standby (PSS)’ On and Off is how it is operating when it’s under standby mode.
 
I will use mobile phone as an example to give you an idea of different modes.
This is not exactly how HDR-7500T operates but I hope you can get the  idea.
 
When you have PSS ON it is similar to:
           When your phone is completely off.
           You are not receiving any calls = No communication with your telephone network.
           But how does your phone wakes up when you have an ALARM set? No battery consumption when its turned off? If I turn off the phone today then will I be able to use the phone on 22nd May 2013?
This is similar concept to HDR-7500T in standby when it has PSS ON (It runs with regulatory requirement of <1W in standby mode).
HDR-7500T will wake up for the recording schedule data (Alarm) stored before HDR-7500T was turned off
 
 
When you have PSS OFF it is similar to:
           Your phone is ON but no apps and it sits inside your drawer. 
           You will only receive calls = communication is alive.
           Yes, you will use more energy than having the phone off completely however it is much lower than having apps running and talking to your friend on the phone.
 
The differences between Standby mode electricity consumptions with PSS ON and OFF are not significant.
The differences would add up to paying for an extra day in several years.
 
You will see the differences when you try with PSS OFF.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: lingfish on May 23, 2012, 09:10:15 AM
Yep, don't buy it.  I don't think that person knows wtf she's talking about.

Padding is indeed still working for me... sometimes.  My power on/off patterns through a day have not changed.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: jeisner on May 23, 2012, 09:54:46 AM
Yep, don't buy it.  I don't think that person knows wtf she's talking about.

That possibility worries me more really.. How seriously are Humax actually taking this issue? They and ICETV are essentially selling a product they know to be faulty (at least for the last few months) we keep getting told it will be fixed in a matter of weeks, not months, and still Humax support has no idea...

And you are right once in a while it does work for me too, though mostly it doesn't.. I have checked with other people at work who have this unit (a couple do) and they have the same padding issue, i.e. sometimes it just doesn't work, they assumed it was ICETVs fault when I asked them...
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: prl on May 23, 2012, 02:30:12 PM
...
Quote
The differences between Standby mode electricity consumptions with PSS ON and OFF are not significant.
The differences would add up to paying for an extra day in several years.
 ...
OK, let's assume several = three or more. That means that according to the source there's less than 0.1% difference in power consumption (3 years > 1000 days) between having PSS on or OFF. So why is there an option at all?

Anyway, the statement as a whole seems to be one that falls under the scope of Wolfgang Pauli's famous "nicht einmal falsch" (not even wrong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong)).
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: jeisner on May 23, 2012, 03:29:04 PM
OK, let's assume several = three or more. That means that according to the source there's less than 0.1% difference in power consumption (3 years > 1000 days) between having PSS on or OFF. So why is there an option at all?

Who knows? maybe they mean an extra day on the average house power bill in a few years.. would make more sense, otherwise as you say why bother with the mode at all?

I did ask for the exact power consumption difference (we know PSS ON is claimed to be < 1W), she avoided answering that question, twice now..
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: prl on May 23, 2012, 04:50:14 PM
OK, let's assume several = three or more. That means that according to the source there's less than 0.1% difference in power consumption (3 years > 1000 days) between having PSS on or OFF. So why is there an option at all?

Who knows? maybe they mean an extra day on the average house power bill in a few years.. would make more sense, otherwise as you say why bother with the mode at all?

I did ask for the exact power consumption difference (we know PSS ON is claimed to be < 1W), she avoided answering that question, twice now..
From what I understand, there are three possible operating modes PVRs can have other than completely off at the wall (and not all have all modes):In the absence of better information from Humax about PSS OFF power consumption, it may need an enterprising forum member with a Humax and an energy meter to answer that question. However, low cost power meters are typically rubbish at measuring low power consumption levels.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: busybee90us2003 on May 23, 2012, 05:01:20 PM
I wish I had found out about this issue before I bought the Humax.

Sigh. Hopefully it will get fixed soon. It has missed the end of Bikie Wars twice and modern family. So frustrating. Also I was recording two shows at the same time and was trying to watch a third on a different network (like adverised) but it wouldn't let me.

I wonder if waiting and hoping for an update or something to fix it is wise or whether I should see if I can return it   

 

Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: prl on May 23, 2012, 05:51:04 PM
... Also I was recording two shows at the same time and was trying to watch a third on a different network (like adverised) but it wouldn't let me.
...
On a dual tuner PVR, the best you can hope for there is that you can watch a third program on a different network only if the two recordings are from the same network (e.g. watch Nine Digital, record Seven Digital and Seven 2).

The IceTV shop page for the Humax (http://www.icetv.com.au/store/PVRs/Humax_HDR7500T_500GB_PVR) says it has "dual tuners so you can record two channels at once whilst playing back a recorded show ...". [my emphasis] Which is different from what you described.

Can you point to an advertised claim that says you're always able to record two shows and watch a third live?
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: lingfish on May 23, 2012, 05:59:16 PM

  • "Instant on" standby. ...  Humax's PSS OFF is probably something like this, but just how good they've been at cutting the power consumption is unclear. Does the HDD keep running in this mode? If it does, there's ~10W straight off!


Out of the box (I haven't played with modes), the Humax definately spins down the disk.  When I hit power on the remote, I definately hear it spin up/unlock.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: jeisner on May 23, 2012, 08:59:11 PM
I wonder if waiting and hoping for an update... whether I should see if I can return it   

Good luck on both fronts, we have waited 3 months for an update thus far, I just today decided to try the second option and I am awaiting a response from ICETV before I seek advice from the ACCC.. (The 'responses' from Humax were just the last straw for me)..

The ACCC is pretty clear on their site..
"You are only entitled to a refund or replacement if the problem is major or cannot be fixed.  If the problem is not major and can be fixed within a reasonable time, the store can choose to refund, repair or replace the product."

Well I consider it a major problem if a recorder fails consistently to record shows completely (as padding, an advertised feature to ensure this does not work).. But even if it is not a major problem, I believe they have failed to fix it in a reasonable time frame, though really what is reasonable?
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: jeisner on May 23, 2012, 09:05:53 PM
In the absence of better information from Humax about PSS OFF power consumption, it may need an enterprising forum member with a Humax and an energy meter to answer that question. However, low cost power meters are typically rubbish at measuring low power consumption levels.

OK in PSS ON mode as lingfish states the HDD powers down and so does the LCD display..

In PSS OFF mode the LCD screen stays on with the time displayed (no huge deal) but also the HDD does NOT power down, ever, I can hear it continuing to spin even 5 hours later dispite the unit is soft powered down. So the power draw difference is HUGE < 1W to > 10W (at least over 10 fold difference) no matter what some Humax rep states in a non technical roundabout way..

I am still not 100% certain whether this fixes the padding issue, that is yet to be proven, but it is effectively breaking their whole advertisment that it uses < 1W in standby as to make base features work (recording with padding) you have to disable the true standby mode..
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: carlprowse on May 24, 2012, 07:23:25 PM
The Humax advice is worth a try. I have made the changes suggested and will see if the padding issue is fixed over the next few weeks.

It would be good if someone from Humax participated in this forum. It is in their own interest to present their own case here in the bet way they can.

One thing I do not understand is why the automatic transition to standby needs to be switched off. If padding will work in normal standby (ie. PSS off) why does it matter if it automatically changes from ON to Standby?

The power use is not a big issue for me. If I expect the Humax to be updated whenever I add a new show to record or when a TV station changes the start time of a program, then it has to be on and ready to communicate with IceTV. However, it would be nice to know how much power it does use in normal standby.
Title: Humax FAIL
Post by: jeisner on May 24, 2012, 08:51:20 PM
The Humax advice is worth a try. I have made the changes suggested and will see if the padding issue is fixed over the next few weeks.

Well I have had PSS OFF for two days now, yesterday I got my hopes up as it correctly recorded 'the block' with padding, but tonight PSS was still off and padding did not work for 'the block', which meant I missed the last 10 minutes... boo hiss Humax, another fail, still not consistent...
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: toppytools on May 24, 2012, 09:35:26 PM
In the absence of better information from Humax about PSS OFF power consumption, it may need an enterprising forum member with a Humax and an energy meter to answer that question. However, low cost power meters are typically rubbish at measuring low power consumption levels.
My "Watt Clever" branded el cheapo power meter reports the following:

Standby with Power Saving ON = 0.8W
Standby with Power Saving OFF = 18.6W (with Network, HDD and Fan ON and a front clock)
Operating = 22W

Standby with Power Saving ON starts at 18.6W and then drops to 0.8W about 20 seconds later when I hear a click that sounds like a relay, but could be the HDD heads parking.

The Humax can update itself from IceTV and record while in Standby, with Power Saving OFF, so the tuners must be active as well (or at least become active when needed). Also, with the Humax in Standby with Power Saving OFF my HDMI switch will switch to the Humax when I turn my Beyonwiz off so even though the Humax is not outputting a picture there is some sort of signal from the HDMI output.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: prl on May 25, 2012, 10:56:21 AM
...
My "Watt Clever" branded el cheapo power meter reports the following:

Standby with Power Saving ON = 0.8W
Standby with Power Saving OFF = 18.6W (with Network, HDD and Fan ON and a front clock)
Operating = 22W

Standby with Power Saving ON starts at 18.6W and then drops to 0.8W about 20 seconds later when I hear a click that sounds like a relay, but could be the HDD heads parking.

The Humax can update itself from IceTV and record while in Standby, with Power Saving OFF, so the tuners must be active as well (or at least become active when needed). Also, with the Humax in Standby with Power Saving OFF my HDMI switch will switch to the Humax when I turn my Beyonwiz off so even though the Humax is not outputting a picture there is some sort of signal from the HDMI output.
The Humax PSS OFF standby all sounds similar to TiVo's "standby", which essentially means "almost everything powered up and running", but no A/V out, and perhaps something different on the front panel from normal operation. Powering a Beyonwiz down to standby (equivalent of Humax PSS ON standby) also takes some time from pressing the remote to actual shutdown. I've never measured it, but 20 sec wouldn't be far off.

Does leaving the Humax on all the time solve the padding problem? If it does, it may be a better option than PSS ON standby, at a modest increase in power consumption (~20%). Not really a satisfactory solution, but perhaps it'd let you record effectively until Humax fixes the problem.

Not having reliable padding makes IceTV recording pretty unsatisfactory.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: jeisner on May 25, 2012, 11:25:34 AM
Does leaving the Humax on all the time solve the padding problem?

No it doesn't for me, still seems touch and go, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, mostly the later..

(I have been doing a lot of testing, something it seems to me Humax didn't bother with)
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: swamprat96 on May 25, 2012, 12:45:40 PM
lets not forget- we also need padding longer than 20 minutes. Try recording a film on any of the commercial networks- they are so loaded with ads we need adjustable padding of up to 60 minutes- and padding that works!
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: jeisner on May 25, 2012, 01:37:40 PM
Another reply from Humax after I told them that even with the power hungry PSS OFF mode it still is not reliable..

Quote
We have many testing boxes and one of our box that had the block as series, although we had 20 mins padding at the front and at the back, the back padding didn’t get recorded.
However, other ‘The Block’ has been recorded with no problem with correct padding.
It is possible that event information from IceTV on ‘The Block’ was not correct.

Will you kindly wait until next week for us to carry out testing with other IceTV compatible products on ‘The Block’ along with our testing HDR-7500T and see what happens? If all different products are behaving the same the issue with The Block missing end padding could be mere information difference from IceTV.

So are they blaming ICETV?? the recording scheduled on the Humax was from 7-8pm how could it then be ICETVs fault??? Its funny my topfield has never had problems with padding (I have been using ICETV for 2 years with various recorders) only the Humax has issues and now they are suggesting it isn't their fault??

It is a 60 minute show, you put 20min padding on the end and it records 60mins worth, how could the scheduling from ICETV be at fault, when the Humax schedule also shows a 60min show (after downloaded from ICETV)..
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: prl on May 25, 2012, 06:23:34 PM
lets not forget- we also need padding longer than 20 minutes. Try recording a film on any of the commercial networks- they are so loaded with ads we need adjustable padding of up to 60 minutes- and padding that works!
As I noted before in this topic, Humax doesn't have access to DTV-B broadcasts in Korea. While I agree that Humax probably should have done more testing before release, I think that's true, too, of both Topfield and Beyonwiz, but it's not simple for them to test under actual broadcast conditions in Australia.

Early firmware on the Beyonwiz had some real doozies. On the DP-S1, playing a DVD would stop all recordings ::)
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: ozpowell on May 26, 2012, 04:48:20 PM
Well I asked Humax for a progress report and got the following from the lady I have been dealing with there..

Quote
Is your Power Saving in Standby and Automatic Power Down OFF?
MENU – SETTINGS – SYSTEM – POWER MANAGEMENT
You will see above two options ON as a default.
Please turn them off.
Then, please turn the box off using rear switch and turn it back on.

As a IceTV user you need to have HDR-7500T to communicate with the IceTV server all the time.
When Power Saving in Standby is ON, when HDR-7500T goes into the standby, it goes into what we call ‘passive standby’.
It means none of USB ports, network, terrestrial etc will operate during standby mode.
(Only those require to wake up HDR-7500T at scheduled time which were stored before HDR-7500T was put into standby will run)
Therefore, if you have above options off it will not communicate to the server and you will lose some recordings you set up during HDR-7500T was under standby and paddings on some recordings.

We were carrying out investigations on paddings as many customers were claiming contrary opinions on paddings.
We have collected valid testing results from comprehensive testing with IceTV EPG on HDR-7500T and very close to put an end on the padding issue.

Until we have final confirmation I cannot say whether there is any permanent resolution on padding issue but there may not be a need of any resolutions.
I've now been testing this suggestion for a few days.  It doesn't appear to have any effect on the problem.  Padding is still being missed on many (most!) recordings.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: lingfish on May 29, 2012, 10:27:19 AM

As I noted before in this topic, Humax doesn't have access to DTV-B broadcasts in Korea. While I agree that Humax probably should have done more testing before release, I think that's true, too, of both Topfield and Beyonwiz, but it's not simple for them to test under actual broadcast conditions in Australia.

Erm, so?  If you sell a product in a country that is supported... support it!  You can't just say, sell a phone in a country with the reasoning, "Well, we think it kinda might maybe sorta work".
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: lingfish on May 29, 2012, 10:28:13 AM
I'm even more annoyed now -- missed the Supernatural season finale last night... those magic, last 5 minutes.

ARGH!

IceTV!  Wtf is going on?  Why have things fallen quiet?
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: prl on May 29, 2012, 06:22:31 PM

As I noted before in this topic, Humax doesn't have access to DTV-B broadcasts in Korea. While I agree that Humax probably should have done more testing before release, I think that's true, too, of both Topfield and Beyonwiz, but it's not simple for them to test under actual broadcast conditions in Australia.

Erm, so?  If you sell a product in a country that is supported... support it!  You can't just say, sell a phone in a country with the reasoning, "Well, we think it kinda might maybe sorta work".
I've never even hinted that this isn't a serious problem, and I've said a couple of times on the DTV forum that I think that the problem is serious enough that I wouldn't consider buying a Humax unless this problem were fixed.

I was explaining how the situation could arise, not condoning it!

It's simply the case that most PVRs I know anything about were released onto the market with insufficient testing. That's not saying I think that it's acceptable.

I'm a Beyonwiz beta tester, and I've given a good bit of time to helping them improve their product.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: icebox on May 29, 2012, 10:39:26 PM
From the little testing I have performed my best guess is the cause of the "Padding Missing" issue may be related to how the recording was initiated. I will talk about the Humax Electronic Program Guide (EPG) instead of the IceTV EPG, only because the Humax EPG is where I have done some testing.

Possible recording initiation methods identified to date:

Humax EPG
1. Pressing the record button on the hand held remote control to record a show that is currently on screen - "Padding Issue" no end padding, start padding not applicable.
2. Scheduling a recording in the future using the Humax hand held remote control and the Humax EPG - OK, start and end padding is fine. Tested with 5 minute start and 20 minute end padding.

IceTV EPG
1. Pressing the record button on the hand held remote control to record a show that is currently on screen - (not tested)
2. Scheduling a recording in the future using the Humax hand held remote control and the IceTV EPG - (not tested)
3. Using the IceTV internet interface on a computer or mobile device to schedule a recording in the future - (not tested)

If willing people can populate the above scenarios with their test results we will have a more detailed understanding of the issue and whether there is in fact a consistent pattern related to the recording initiation method.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: lingfish on May 30, 2012, 10:04:26 AM

I was explaining how the situation could arise, not condoning it!


Understood... it just didn't necessarily read that way.

I'm a Beyonwiz beta tester, and I've given a good bit of time to helping them improve their product.

I wish I'd know this before buying this pile of junk.

Not only is padding broken, but it isn't filing series recodings into folders anymore, randomly.  Sometimes it works, sometimes not.  ARGH!

The whole point of this box is to "set and forget", and all it needs lately is the opposite -- constant mothering.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: lingfish on May 30, 2012, 10:06:59 AM

If willing people can populate the above scenarios with their test results we will have a more detailed understanding of the issue and whether there is in fact a consistent pattern related to the recording initiation method.

Or, the manufacturer can do their own work that we pay them to do by buying the units, and subscribing to IceTV... though I want a resolution to this, I fail to see how it's our problem to gather test results.

I bought the box to free up my time, not to suck up more of it!

And anyway, the last statement from Ice (which seems likes eons ago now) was that they pretty much knew what it was, and were working on fixing it...
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: jeisner on May 30, 2012, 03:01:32 PM
And anyway, the last statement from Ice (which seems likes eons ago now) was that they pretty much knew what it was, and were working on fixing it...

They might but Humax, based on my contact with them, are still in the investigating phase trying to find the issue rather than knowing what it is and fixing the programming...

Anyway I was in contact with Humax and have been given an RA and have returned it today to ICETV.. I will buy another Topfield 2400 as I know they work, the Humax seemed like a real bargain but, like you, I don't need to be spending my free time trying to help them fix their product which currently doesn't work.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: lingfish on May 30, 2012, 03:52:35 PM

Anyway I was in contact with Humax and have been given an RA and have returned it today to ICETV.. I will buy another Topfield 2400 as I know they work, the Humax seemed like a real bargain but, like you, I don't need to be spending my free time trying to help them fix their product which currently doesn't work.

Hrm, I wonder if I do that, if I lose my lifetime Ice membership, which is the only reason I bought into all this -- the package deal Ice did...
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: prl on May 30, 2012, 05:41:21 PM
...
The whole point of this box is to "set and forget", and all it needs lately is the opposite -- constant mothering.
Even on Beyonwizes, which seem, out of them, Topfields and Humax, to behave best with IceTV, occasional tending and weeding is necessary. Sometimes shows continue to display "queued" on IceTV when the timer has been set on the Beyonwiz, and sometimes the show shows the yellow error triangle when the timer has in fact been set correctly. These are two problems that I've long complained about on this forum, but without the problem still comes up occasionally.

Also, independent of any bugs in the implementation, your recording schedule can still get thrown out if a show that records properly gets a timeslot change that causes it to conflict with two other now-concurrent timers. Though it looks as though Humax owners wish that was their only problem.

My experience is that it's simply not the case that "... IceTV will automatically record all your favourite TV shows for you," as is claimed on the IceTV home page. Even when it all works as it's intended to.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: jeisner on May 30, 2012, 09:49:43 PM
Even on Beyonwizes, which seem, out of them, Topfields and Humax, to behave best with IceTV, occasional tending and weeding is necessary. Sometimes shows continue to display "queued" on IceTV when the timer has been set on the Beyonwiz, and sometimes the show shows the yellow error triangle when the timer has in fact been set correctly. These are two problems that I've long complained about on this forum, but without the problem still comes up occasionally.

I have owned 4 different companies' ICETV compatible PVRs..

Humax - padding issues as we all know.

Strong - Worst of the lot has reseting issues when playing and recording at the same time, big problem as show that is recording is lost, and Strong released a new model and stopped supporting their customers.. Gave to my mother in law, she only uses it as a set top box and to pause live tv, works fine for that..

Beyonwiz - I had bad luck with mine also had random reset issues, though others don't get this so maybe I had a bad one? I returned it to JB HiFi for the topfield..

Topfield 2400 - I think the best of the lot has one minor issue when there is a blackout it doesn't pick the network connection back up again unless you go in and out of the network settings (don't need to change anything).. I very rarely get blackouts, I only noticed it as I have had electrical work done a bit lately so turned on and off a few times... Otherwise I don't have any issues at all with ICETV and this unit, extremely reliable...
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: swamprat96 on May 31, 2012, 05:59:41 AM
I'm on my second device after an HTPC- TVIX being the first. It did everything but kept resetting or powering down. Very dissapointed with the Humax. I could forgive the padding issues, the disappearing program guide, forgetting its network connections and other silly bugs- if the vendor supported it. But Humax Australia is all talk and no action- same as TVIX were and they've gone now as a result of poor service.

If you sell a faulty product and don't back it up you won't last. I'll be packing my Humax up this weekend and getting an RA to return it. I'm thinking I'll be looking at a Freeview device or perhaps Topfield. I'm not happy with ICETv either  -the humax product was recommended and sold to me by them as was the TVIX.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: carlprowse on June 02, 2012, 12:46:58 PM
We have not had any padding issues in over a week since making the power saving setting changes recommended by Humax. We use the IceTV app on iPads to control the PVR (one of the use cases that need to be tested.

On the broader issue of the suitability of the Humax/IceTV solution, I am quite pleased. It is a huge improvement on my old Pansonic PVR which could not adapt to changes in the programme schedules inflicted on us by the networks. It also did not allow an entire series to be selected for recoding.

I chose the Humax/IceTV combination because it appeared to be the easiest for my wife to use.

BTW, the ABCs iView app is really well implemented

I expect the occaisional glitch with all the technology involved (digital TV, HDMI, PVR, WiFi, router, internet, IceTV). I have been surprised that the few glitches that do occur are relatively minor.

My biggest complaint is aimed at the TV networks. Padding is only an issue because the networks intentionally vary from the published schedule. Whatever their intent, the impact has been to stop us watching any commercial program live to air. In fact we tend to shy away from watching most programs on the commercial networks, even via the PVR. Our Apple TV provides the most relaxing way to watch shows such as Top Gear and Downton Abbey.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: swamprat96 on June 03, 2012, 11:25:23 AM
agreed- I've had no issues with padding either since changing power settings. I am now hanging on to the unit. Now I just want longer padding
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: hg34 on June 03, 2012, 01:17:28 PM
Have just reset the "power" options as recommended....will monitor over the next few days to see if successful or not.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: jeisner on June 04, 2012, 08:26:56 AM
We have not had any padding issues in over a week since making the power saving setting changes recommended by Humax. We use the IceTV app on iPads to control the PVR (one of the use cases that need to be tested.

As stated I still had issues, maybe less often but it wasn't right still.. My other problem with that fix is the unit goes from using 1w in standby to 30+ watts in standby.. I don't need another device sucking 30 watts 24x7 because padding won't work.. YMMV of course..

BTW if you only watched the PVR on average 4 hours a day 365 days a year, changing the standby mode for the other 20 hours would cost an extra $54 a year in electricity (by my calculations).. These things add up and it is not an acceptable fix whilst telling me/us that the difference in power usage is "negligable"..

Quote
On the broader issue of the suitability of the Humax/IceTV solution, I am quite pleased. It is a huge improvement on my old Pansonic PVR

Not to mention the Strong units ICETV sold in the past, terrible stability in my experience.. So yes it is an improvement..

What bothered me is ICETV has described the issue here and know there is an fault, they also mentioned it would be fixed in "weeks not months". So many weeks later Humax is seemingly back peddling and trying to blaim ICETV, they only agreed to refund me when I pointed out my Topfield unit doesn't have padding issues on the same shows, so it can't be ICETVs fault..

Anyway mine has been returned now, I am waiting on ICETV to contact me so I can organise the topfield replacement, I am curious to see what happens on this issue, if/when it gets fixed other than disabling the advertised 1w standby mode (which wasn't 100% anyway for me)..

Quote
I chose the Humax/IceTV combination because it appeared to be the easiest for my wife to use.

That is true it is the most friendly for non-technical minded people I think.. Apple users would love it..

Quote
BTW, the ABCs iView app is really well implemented

Agreed..
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: ozpowell on June 04, 2012, 04:42:21 PM
As I mentioned on 26/5, the power settings have no effect on this issue for me.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: hg34 on June 05, 2012, 09:21:48 PM
Padding workaround seems to be working ok for me.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: hg34 on June 09, 2012, 11:00:25 AM
Unit locked up early this morning.....couldn't Power Up via remote (had to turn off/on at the back).....anyone had this issue ?

(Have since found another thread that references to this problem)
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: jeisner on June 10, 2012, 12:59:04 AM
Well as I said I sent back my Humax, on friday my replacement Topfield TRF2400 arrived, low power usage standby and reliable recording (with padding)..

Thanks ICETV for sorting it out..

No more Humax for me, sticking with Topfield  ;D
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: ozpowell on June 10, 2012, 04:14:09 PM
Touch wood - I haven't seen this issue for about a week now.  Not sure if it's something that's changed with the IceTV EPG or if the power work-around has suddenly decided to fix things for me...   :o
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: swamprat96 on June 21, 2012, 09:57:02 AM
Question-is padding supposed to work if you hit record on a current program? If so its not working- I hit record on "The Block" last night and no padding was added. My wife missed the end of the show. I'm not popular. I have power saving disabled
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: ozpowell on July 06, 2012, 07:30:06 PM
Anyone tried 1.06 with power saving enabled yet?
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: stt602 on July 10, 2012, 01:22:34 AM
Question-is padding supposed to work if you hit record on a current program?
I think the answer is no. If you want start recording manually, just hit the red recording button twice and increase duration in 10 minute steps in the pop up menu.

Anyone tried 1.06 with power saving enabled yet?
Padding worked for me in power saving, but the epg was out more than my padding time. ::)
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: kay67kay on April 26, 2013, 06:08:50 PM
my padding is not working intermittently. i was reading through this thread, thinking i might find an answer, but then realised this is all really old stuff. anyway, i have series record set for judge judy. i have my padding time set for 5 at the start and 20 minutes at the end. today, it recorded with no padding. yesterday it had padding. wednesday had no padding. i have my automatic power down switched off because of earlier freezing issues. also, for next monday, when judge judy is on, the schedule on the humax says it will record from 1500 - 1530, but shows no program name. it's just blank. on tuesday it actually says judge judy.

what is going on here? i have the latest firmware and did the reset thng and everything.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: Dave at IceTV on April 26, 2013, 07:59:26 PM
Hi Kay,

This thread may be old but the final solution is still the same. i.e. Make sure that your Humax has the latest software installed.

How to upgrade the Humax software (firmware)
http://support.icetv.com.au/entries/20414081-How-do-I-upgrade-the-firmware-of-the-Humax

Many customers needed to do a factory reset after upgrading the software before the padding started working correctly. So if you continue to have missing padding after the software upgrade then please see our 'Recommended Firmware Update Steps' written specifically to solve the padding issue, here:
http://support.icetv.com.au/entries/21690712-Recommended-Firmware-Update-Steps


Also be aware of when the Humax (or any PVR) can and cannot add padding. Twin tuner PVRs like the Humax cannot add padding between 2 back to back shows on the same channel. They also cannot add padding at the end of a recording if 2 other recordings are starting or overlapping at the time that the first recording ends (because it cannot record 3 channels at once so the padding gets dropped in preference to the other recordings).
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: kay67kay on April 27, 2013, 08:08:10 PM
hi dave. thanks for the response.

i've already updated software and done the factory reset to stop other problems (disappearing guide and stuff). i have only one series programmed to record during the day. nothing before or after on any channels. i understand padding from having a tivo for the last 4 years or so. i've never had a problem with that, and thought the "intelligent" type padding on the humax would be great, cos i wouldn't have to go in and manually change the padding between 2 back to back shows. but it's not doing what it should be doing. it's just randomly deciding to add padding or not when it sees fit. should i do another factory reset? what difference would that make when i've already done one since upgrading the software?
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: toppytools on April 30, 2013, 12:32:50 PM
Hi Kay,

When 1.06 was released many people needed to do the full steps here:
http://support.icetv.com.au/entries/21690712-Recommended-Firmware-Update-Steps

A couple even had to do it twice, so it certainly would not hurt to do it again.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: kay67kay on April 30, 2013, 06:57:52 PM
ok. i'll do it again. i've been back to the tv portal thing a couple of times to check for updates, but it tells me i have the latest. i'll try the factory reset again and give it a few days and see how it goes. you would think that if this was a big problem 12 months ago, it would have been well and truly fixed by now. thanks
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: kay67kay on May 21, 2013, 12:20:41 AM
 >:( I am getting really quite disgusted with this whole thing. I've had nothing but trouble with it. It is still dropping the padding off recordings when there is no other program on either side of it. And when I go to media to see what is recorded, it just has the time and channel, not the name of the show. I have checked that I have the latest software. I have restored factory settings more than once. Do I just have a dud machine or what?
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: kay67kay on May 21, 2013, 12:22:03 AM
also, is it the humax itself causing these problems or icetv? i'm ready to take the stupid thing back to the shop and demand a refund, to be honest. it's given me so much trouble since I got it. I can't trust it to record my shows for me.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: dcoggins on May 21, 2013, 07:18:47 AM
Have you tried contacting Humax support? They can be quite helpful, and if there is any suspicion about the unit they might replace it. They were quick to replace my unit when I had some strange problems.

Having said that, I still occasionally lose padding for no known reason. It is most frustrating when you lose the last five minutes of a show because the mongrel TV stations stick in too many ads.

Another thing - I have found that if you make even the slightest change to the preset recording schedule set by IceTV, all the padding seems to vanish - you have to manually add time.

These units are good when they are working, but can be fussy and glitchy. There is supposed to be a new software update coming out "soon" - hopefully that will fix a couple of issues. PVRs have been around for quite a few years now, it's a mystery to me why they haven't got it right by now.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: kay67kay on May 21, 2013, 01:32:28 PM
I haven't contacted humax support. I think I need to do that. I've had every single problem I've found people talking about on here. It's incredibly frustrating, specially after having had a TiVo and having no problems what so ever with it, apart from the buttons on the remote wearing out. What's the best way to contact humax?
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: Dave at IceTV on May 21, 2013, 01:55:55 PM
Phone is the best way to contact Humax Support.

Humax Australia Customer Support
Phone:  1300 737 937
'Contact Us' page:  www.humaxdigital.com/au/support/contactus.asp


kay, when you updated the software on the Humax did it actually do the update or did it say it had the latest version already?

Some Humaxes have been bought from stores with 1.08.05 installed. 1.08.05 seems to be a test version that was based on an older version without the padding fix.

If yours has 1.08.05 you need to install 1.07.00 via USB so that you can update to the proper 1.08.04 version.

You can check what software version is on your Humax as follows:
- Go to "Menu > Settings > System > System Information".
- Note the 5 numbers on the 2nd line, titled 'Software Version'.

If you need to install 1.07.00 via USB see this page:
http://support.icetv.com.au/entries/21269627-How-do-I-downgrade-the-Humax-software-to-version-1-07-00

Then do the update from the TV Portal as normal to install 1.08.04 (or the new 1.09 version if it is available).
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: kay67kay on May 21, 2013, 02:25:09 PM
ok, I've just checked that. I have the 1.08.04, so it's the right one. I might try getting the 1.07.00 and then update again to the 1.08.04 to see what happens. or hopefully the 1.09 will be there and will fix everything.  if that doesn't work, i'll give humax a call.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: kay67kay on June 03, 2013, 07:44:34 PM
well, I finally got around to downgrading to 1.07.00 and now it won't let me upgrade. I try to go to the tv portal, it tells me I need to upgrade, I say ok and nothing happens. now what??
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: Dave at IceTV on June 03, 2013, 08:00:46 PM
You can update to 1.08.04 via USB as well.

You download 1.08.04 here (http://www.humaxdigital.com/au/data/product/1357287848/HDR_7500t_upgrade.hdf).
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: kay67kay on June 03, 2013, 08:12:45 PM
thanks dave. trying that now. then I guess yet another factory settings restore. if it's not fixed then, i'll be calling humax. I've never had such a troublesome appliance before. it's gotten beyond ridiculous.
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: Dave at IceTV on June 03, 2013, 08:46:57 PM
You should not need to do another factory reset since you did one already, and are updating from 1.07.00
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: kay67kay on June 03, 2013, 08:50:11 PM
ok, thanks
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: kay67kay on June 03, 2013, 09:18:21 PM
oh boy. I did the one from the link you posted, dave, via usb, and now I have 1.08.05, which is the wrong one, isn't it? don't I need 1.08.04?
Title: Re: Padding Missing?
Post by: Dave at IceTV on June 03, 2013, 10:57:43 PM
Sorry about that Kerri. I didn't know that Humax had changed the software without updating the version number on the page.

Please check your yahoo email.