Skippa Pre-Order

Started by Leon K, May 25, 2015, 12:55:56 PM

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bodogbodog

Quote from: IanL-S on September 19, 2015, 02:50:28 PM
Hopefully it will get there on Monday (preferably first thing).
Thanks for the update
At this point another days delay is not going to make much difference I guess
Roll on delivery day...
Beyonwiz V2: 4 HDTV Tuners, 16gb SD + unRaid 10TB NAS + IceTV Skippa (for old times sake - make me an offer and it's yours!)
Beyonwiz V2: 2 HDTV Tuners - spare

Dave at IceTV

Quote from: csutak40 on September 19, 2015, 01:53:31 PM
Thanks for that.  Missed that bit. :D 

Funny, I was under the impression that Choice does their "reviews" incognito, purchasing the item in a store.  If they get one from the manufacturer, it is not the same thing, is it?

Correct. They buy and test production versions that are the same as any customer can purchase. They anonymously ordered and paid for their Skippas the same way everyone else did. One of their's was in the first batch that arrived 2 weeks ago.
cheers

Dave
Customer Service

Paul55

Quote from: Dave at IceTV on September 19, 2015, 03:43:59 PM
They anonymously ordered and paid for their Skippas the same way everyone else did. One of their's was in the first batch that arrived 2 weeks ago.

So, they ordered in first minute or two?? Seriously?? They must be the most dedicated reviewers in recorded history to beat the hundreds of buyers who had been hanging out for months for the release - none of whom are active on the forum.......

Vortical

#333
Quote from: Dave at IceTV on September 19, 2015, 03:43:59 PM
Quote from: csutak40 on September 19, 2015, 01:53:31 PM
Thanks for that.  Missed that bit. :D 

Funny, I was under the impression that Choice does their "reviews" incognito, purchasing the item in a store.  If they get one from the manufacturer, it is not the same thing, is it?

Correct. They buy and test production versions that are the same as any customer can purchase. They anonymously ordered and paid for their Skippas the same way everyone else did. One of their's was in the first batch that arrived 2 weeks ago.

Can you please advise how many units are actually in the next batch (that is supposed to be arriving on Monday 21st September 2015) or preferably up to what invoice number, surely this is known at this point!

In answering this it would be a step in the right direction in repairing the sour relationship that now exists between pre-order customers and IceTV.

Vortical

#334
I really don't undertsand how a manufacturer that is capable of making 1.5million units that pushed out the skippa production the first time then the 0.5million units that pushed out your manufacture slot a second time, how on earth could it have not made your entire skippa order so that all units arrived at once instead of 3 separate shipments?

Also how is possible that not a single forum member on here or whirlpool was in this small first batch? The ones that jumped at the chance the web page was put up?

This just makes no sense at all and doesn't ad up to me!

Note: The quantities and information noted in my post was mentioned in Heinz's Tech WebCast interview on the 12th September!
http://forum.icetv.com.au/iceforum/seored/u=aHR0cDovL3RlY2h3ZWJjYXN0LnBvZG9tYXRpYy5jb20vZW50cnkvMjAxNS0wOS0xMVQyMF8yNV80Mi0wN18wMA==

Tyrus

Quote from: Vortical on September 19, 2015, 05:21:35 PM
I really don't undertsand how a manufacturer that is capable of making 1.5million units that pushed out the skippa production the first time then the 0.5million units that pushed out your manufacture slot a second time, how on earth could it have not made your entire skippa order so that all units arrived at once instead of 3 separate shipments?
http://forum.icetv.com.au/iceforum/seored/u=aHR0cDovL3RlY2h3ZWJjYXN0LnBvZG9tYXRpYy5jb20vZW50cnkvMjAxNS0wOS0xMVQyMF8yNV80Mi0wN18wMA==

Depends on their credit terms with the manufacturer.  If this is their first order with a new supplier it is likely goods only released on full payment.

Vortical

#336
Quote from: Tyrus on September 19, 2015, 05:29:42 PM
Quote from: Vortical on September 19, 2015, 05:21:35 PM
I really don't undertsand how a manufacturer that is capable of making 1.5million units that pushed out the skippa production the first time then the 0.5million units that pushed out your manufacture slot a second time, how on earth could it have not made your entire skippa order so that all units arrived at once instead of 3 separate shipments?
http://forum.icetv.com.au/iceforum/seored/u=aHR0cDovL3RlY2h3ZWJjYXN0LnBvZG9tYXRpYy5jb20vZW50cnkvMjAxNS0wOS0xMVQyMF8yNV80Mi0wN18wMA==

Depends on their credit terms with the manufacturer.  If this is their first order with a new supplier it is likely goods only released on full payment.

If 1000 were ordered at $399 + $18 shipping that $417,000 they received 3-4 months ago and who knows how many orders they have for the future pre-offers
I'd speculate it's close to $1 million worth of orders at least.

So how is it they couldn't pay in full when we're all paying up front?

Surely these units cost much less than the advertised price to IceTV they need to make a profit on them too!

Heinz interview states they had hundreds of orders on the opening day of pre-orders and I've been advised my order is around number 700 that I placed around a week after the opening day, so it's not like the orders came in dribs and drabs till the second pre-order offer came up.

I also wonder whether more than 1000 customers were able to buy in at the $399 offer.

nis200sx

Quote from: Vortical on September 19, 2015, 05:35:44 PM
Quote from: Tyrus on September 19, 2015, 05:29:42 PM
Quote from: Vortical on September 19, 2015, 05:21:35 PM
I really don't undertsand how a manufacturer that is capable of making 1.5million units that pushed out the skippa production the first time then the 0.5million units that pushed out your manufacture slot a second time, how on earth could it have not made your entire skippa order so that all units arrived at once instead of 3 separate shipments?

Depends on their credit terms with the manufacturer.  If this is their first order with a new supplier it is likely goods only released on full payment.

So how is it they couldn't pay in full when we're all paying up front?

Of course they would have paid in full, when required to do so. It's not like they don't have the money. Remember they are buying through an Aussie branch of an OEM that has their HQ on another continent. IceTV would pay the local branch of the OEM. And the OEM's HQ would be paying the factory. Who knows what kind of relationship the OEM's HQ currently has with the chosen factory (who are apparently in another hemisphere and speak a different language).

When you think about the various personnel that the information has to travel through during it's trip from Factory to OEM HQ to Local OEM to IceTV to Us Consumers there's a lot of room for information about dates and deadlines and quantities to get misinterpreted by the Chinese Whispers effect as the message goes down the line.

And that's not accounting for the language and cultural differences including sarcasm that may be taken as a factual statement, or a sense of humour that is not understood.

Vortical, you seem to be suggesting that some skippas were made after the 1.5million other boxes (STBs or PVRs?) but before the 0.5million boxes? I took it to mean that production of all skippas was delayed until after those pushinsky's 2million boxes were finished. The factory would have to be manufacturing the full order in one production run. They'd be crazy not to. If they'd started they wouldn't stop until all xx thousand skippas were made.

The small quantity that arrived(?) a couple of weeks ago may have been left over from the QA sample batch. If I was IceTV copping all this flak (or the OEM assumedly getting constant pressure from IceTV) I'd fly in the first pallet load as soon as they were ready while the factory continues to produce the rest of the order. Which seems to tally with what someone here posted about "the rest of the skippas are only a week behind this batch".
Dave

Vortical

#338
No I never suggested any were made in between, all I stated is that from what we've been told and what is in heinz's interview that the original production batch was pushed back twice.
Once for another countries order of 1.5 million units of a completely different device and another for setback due to 0.5 million.

If your confused listen to heinz's interview on tech webcast.

What I don't understand is why a manufacturer capable of fulfilling orders this large and we're getting skippa shipments in dribs and drabs surely this can't be the manufacturer causing this delay of shipments.

To date with what has been stated;

1. one order arrived and shipped that was in double digits so 99 max, amazingly not one forum member was in this batch.

2. a second shipment is supposed to be arriving Monday and no-one knows how much that is.

3. A third batch is coming around a week after the second batch.

I just can't understand how 2000 skippa units could not have been easily made and shipped by this manufacturer capable of fulfilling orders to other countries for 1.5million and 0.5million units.

It also makes no sense to send 3 or more shipments of such a small manufacturing quantity over a period of 1-2 weeks between shipments, which is what has been stated by icetv in the numerous posts and in the interview when you piece it altogether.

I'm no expert but this seems ludicrous.

In regards to paying in full I agree and was responding to the tyrus's post. Of course icetv paid upfront otherwise how else would manufacture start.

gas667

Quote from: Paul55 on September 19, 2015, 04:40:20 PM
Quote from: Dave at IceTV on September 19, 2015, 03:43:59 PM
They anonymously ordered and paid for their Skippas the same way everyone else did. One of their's was in the first batch that arrived 2 weeks ago.

So, they ordered in first minute or two?? Seriously?? They must be the most dedicated reviewers in recorded history to beat the hundreds of buyers who had been hanging out for months for the release - none of whom are active on the forum.......

This smells a bit doesn't it. How does Icetv know that Choice is doing a review if they bought it anonymously? Besides the fact that their is no evidence of any Skippas in the wild but they got theirs in the first minute of sales. I'm having trouble with this whole story.


gas667

Quote from: ColdasIce on September 20, 2015, 11:27:18 AM
I don't believe any part of the 40? have been delivered story. Not a single person posting anywhere that they have one, not a single question about the functions on this forum from the new owners and IceTV still refusing to post a single picture of the units that supposedly arrived two weeks ago.
How likely do you think it is that all those things have actually happened and been truthfully represented?

I really want this device to be a winner. Small companies delivering great products are a wonderful thing.

That said with everything that's been announced and everything that hasn't there is a lot that doesn't seem to add up and some things that don't seem feasible. I sincerely hope that the issues are just on a customer relations level and the device can wipe away the current sour taste. If it arrives that is. ;)

IanL-S

On the shipment issue it occurs to me that all the Skippa would have been made in one production run (too disruptive to chop and change particularly for a small order). I think real problem is logistics in getting the Skippa to Australia - it may be that air cargo availability is the cause for much of the delay. Most shipments from the OEM factory would go by surface transport (much cheaper), however here IceTV were obliged to use air cargo due to the late delivery.

On the Choice issue, it is likely that Choice contacted IceTV to either do fact checking or just to tell them they had done a review. Nothing sinister in that. Letting IceTV know that the review will be appearing, and when, may increase Choice membership or at least 'pay-per-review' revenue.

Ian

PS I do not remember seeing any reference to the Skippa review in any of he briefing emails I have got from Choice, but I do not always read them carefully.
IceTV: IceBox + BYOB IceBox + 2xTRF-2400 + 2xTF7100HDPVRtPlus + SKIPPA [RIP] + T2 + U4 + V2
No IceTV: a few Toppys and T2
Synology NAS
Check out the oztoppy wiki and oztoppy Forum for Toppy help

gas667

Quote from: IanL-S on September 20, 2015, 01:30:09 PM
On the shipment issue it occurs to me that all the Skippa would have been made in one production run (too disruptive to chop and change particularly for a small order). I think real problem is logistics in getting the Skippa to Australia - it may be that air cargo availability is the cause for much of the delay. Most shipments from the OEM factory would go by surface transport (much cheaper), however here IceTV were obliged to use air cargo due to the late delivery.

On the Choice issue, it is likely that Choice contacted IceTV to either do fact checking or just to tell them they had done a review. Nothing sinister in that. Letting IceTV know that the review will be appearing, and when, may increase Choice membership or at least 'pay-per-review' revenue.

Ian

PS I do not remember seeing any reference to the Skippa review in any of he briefing emails I have got from Choice, but I do not always read them carefully.

It's possible Choice contacted Icetv after getting their hands on a Skippa but I'm mystified that there is no mention of a Skippa in someone's hands yet.

Icetv say a small number have shipped to customers but that's it. Not exactly saying they didn't ship but is it more likely they didn't ship or that the people who were interested enough to be the first on the order queue don't read/post on either Whirlpool or this forum.

And then where did Choice get their unit from? Lots of supposition i know.

Hopefully by end of the week we can start talking about the Skippa itself instead.

IanL-S

Quote from: gas667 on September 20, 2015, 01:40:32 PM<<<SNIP>>>

It's possible Choice contacted Icetv after getting their hands on a Skippa but I'm mystified that there is no mention of a Skippa in someone's hands yet.

I suppose it is possible that IceTV asked them not to post comments on the Forum .... but not sure why they would do so.

It could be the few who got them are not posting to avoid having to answer a barrage of questions.

Ian
IceTV: IceBox + BYOB IceBox + 2xTRF-2400 + 2xTF7100HDPVRtPlus + SKIPPA [RIP] + T2 + U4 + V2
No IceTV: a few Toppys and T2
Synology NAS
Check out the oztoppy wiki and oztoppy Forum for Toppy help

Tyrus

#344
QuoteOf course they would have paid in full, when required to do so. It's not like they don't have the money.

Really?  I'm not so sure.  Lets say they get 2,000 pre-orders.  To fulfill that and hold some stock until the next production run, plus in order to secure the volume discounts they would want from the manufacturer,  I'm guessing the initial order was at least double that, so around 4,000 units.    Lets say it cost them $150 per unit to build.  That's $600k to the OEM.  Typically the production cost represents only 30-35% of a company's total expenses to get a product out the door.  So total cost of around $2m.   

So after wages, rent, R&D costs, utilities etc, the $900k taken from pre-orders would only cover half their expenses. 

Note, I'm not being critical of that process at all, its pretty stock standard practice - I'm just questioning the real reason for the delays and suspect that they have had to take delivery, both delayed and in in batches, as cashflow permitted.  And if that IS the case, shame on them for not managing and communicating the whole process better.