New IceTV branded PVR

Started by Mantorok, July 17, 2013, 01:13:43 PM

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Dave at IceTV

#255
For those who think that they don't ever record more than one recording per network at a time you are not considering back to back recordings on the same channel or consecutive recordings from the same network that overlap due to padding.
cheers

Dave
Customer Service

IanL-S

Thanks for the update Dave.

Things that in beta firmware do not necessarily make it to production firmware. I have seen several instances of this.

From a production standpoint, it is much better to load the final firmware at the factory. What with shipping time and customs clearance times, there would be a non-trivial time between manufacture and entering the domestic sales channel. Opening the boxes in the warehouse to upgrade firmware is a time consuming task. While the firmware will, no doubt, be relatively easy to update, if the initial shipping has non-optimal firmware that requires an immediate update may not go down well with the purchaser.

I remember the first Topfield TRF-2400 I purchased came with a USB stick to update the firmware. It was easier to open the box and put in the USB stick than to upgrade the firmware.

Ian
IceTV: IceBox + BYOB IceBox + 2xTRF-2400 + 2xTF7100HDPVRtPlus + SKIPPA [RIP] + T2 + U4 + V2
No IceTV: a few Toppys and T2
Synology NAS
Check out the oztoppy wiki and oztoppy Forum for Toppy help

IanL-S

Quote from: Dave at IceTV on May 04, 2015, 02:54:39 PMThe skippa uses hard padding, like the Beyonwiz T3, and due to the skippa and T3's ability to perform multiple recordings per tuner (from the same TV network) all recordings from the same network are recorded with your specified padding even if the padding causes overlaps.

Most Topfield PVRs can record multiple LCNs from the same network using 1 Tuner. For example, if they are recording 4 LCNs from one network, they can still show live TV from other networks. However, they do not have what Dave describes as 'hard padding'. This is due to the way the firmware structures the management of recordings. My understanding is that it is due to there being only 5 'recording slots' in the firmware, one of which is reserved for the time-shift buffer. As these Toppys support quad recording, there would need to be at least 9 slots to allow for 'hard padding' on consecutive recordings on the same LCN. I do not know why the number of 'slots' cannot be increased: I suspect it may have something to do with the modest ram and non-volatile memory (which is used to store the firmware) of the Broadcom BCM7335 processor has: Flash-ROM: 64MBytes(NOR, 16bits); RAM: 384MBytes DDR SDRAM(48bits); EEPROM: 2KBytes.

Ian
IceTV: IceBox + BYOB IceBox + 2xTRF-2400 + 2xTF7100HDPVRtPlus + SKIPPA [RIP] + T2 + U4 + V2
No IceTV: a few Toppys and T2
Synology NAS
Check out the oztoppy wiki and oztoppy Forum for Toppy help

Dave at IceTV

Quote from: EdQld on May 04, 2015, 02:32:27 PM
is the June release solid or could it move into July?
The skippas available in June are arriving by plane, with more coming in July by ship. 

The firmware is easily updatable over the Internet from the menu so new features or improvements can be added at any time.
cheers

Dave
Customer Service

Dave at IceTV

Quote from: IanL-S on May 04, 2015, 03:11:50 PM
Quote from: Dave at IceTV on May 04, 2015, 02:54:39 PMThe skippa uses hard padding, like the Beyonwiz T3, and due to the skippa and T3's ability to perform multiple recordings per tuner (from the same TV network) all recordings from the same network are recorded with your specified padding even if the padding causes overlaps.

Most Topfield PVRs can record multiple LCNs from the same network using 1 Tuner. For example, if they are recording 4 LCNs from one network, they can still show live TV from other networks. However, they do not have what Dave describes as 'hard padding'. This is due to the way the firmware structures the management of recordings. My understanding is that it is due to there being only 5 'recording slots' in the firmware, one of which is reserved for the time-shift buffer. As these Toppys support quad recording, there would need to be at least 9 slots to allow for 'hard padding' on consecutive recordings on the same LCN. I do not know why the number of 'slots' cannot be increased: I suspect it may have something to do with the modest ram and non-volatile memory (which is used to store the firmware) of the Broadcom BCM7335 processor has: Flash-ROM: 64MBytes(NOR, 16bits); RAM: 384MBytes DDR SDRAM(48bits); EEPROM: 2KBytes.
I've just learnt that the skippa has 6 'recording slots' and it's 'hard padding' is somewhat dynamic in that the skippa will drop the padding between shows if it needs to record back to back shows on the same tuner, or drop the padding if it would prevent a following show on another channel being recorded. If there is a tuner free it will record each show on it's own tuner with padding. If all tuners are in use it will record shows from the same network on the same tuner.
cheers

Dave
Customer Service

IanL-S

Thanks for this information Dave.

This suggests that in some cases part of a recording can be lost when recording consecutive timers on the same LCN as rarely to commercial networks start and commence programs at the scheduled time. The recent practice of some networks to start the next program immediately the prior program ends make the situation worse. If I recall correctly, I previously suggested that there should be an option to combine timers in such circumstances. Hopefully there is such an option in the firmware.

Ian
IceTV: IceBox + BYOB IceBox + 2xTRF-2400 + 2xTF7100HDPVRtPlus + SKIPPA [RIP] + T2 + U4 + V2
No IceTV: a few Toppys and T2
Synology NAS
Check out the oztoppy wiki and oztoppy Forum for Toppy help

csutak40

Quote from: IanL-S on May 04, 2015, 04:04:28 PM
Thanks for this information Dave.

This suggests that in some cases part of a recording can be lost when recording consecutive timers on the same LCN as rarely to commercial networks start and commence programs at the scheduled time. The recent practice of some networks to start the next program immediately the prior program ends make the situation worse. If I recall correctly, I previously suggested that there should be an option to combine timers in such circumstances. Hopefully there is such an option in the firmware.

Ian
Ages ago, when we were making suggestion as to what we'd like on this new PVR, I suggested that the way TED works (merging consecutive shows, with the padding at the beginning  of the first and the end of the last) is a good idea.  Most people disagreed with me, but I still think it is a good idea, it certainly avoids the above problem, as one can easily find the end of one show and the beginning of the next, and separate them if required.
My secondary PVR atm is Media Centre.  It creates two recordings for consecutive shows, and I, for one, find it more annoying than the way TED handles them, especially if I am saving them to watch later.

BTW, I still think it would be nice if IceTV would tell us the reason they've dropped one of the promised tuners.
Cheers,
Judy
Last Update Dec 9 2020; Beyonwiz V2, T2,

JPP

#262
Quote from: Dave at IceTV on May 04, 2015, 02:54:39 PM
For those who think that they don't ever record more than one recording per network at a time you are not considering back to back recordings on the same channel or consecutive recordings from the same network that overlap due to padding.
I regularly do Dave, but I'm quite happy to simply merge the two recordings. I do this currently for example with an ICETV set recording to which I add a JustEPG manual recording. JustEPG in this instance gives you the option to split or merge. If I select to split them, it will often mean that the end of the first recording will be at the start of the second. the merge option just makes it one combined recording where you'll have to find the junction of the two. I personally prefer the split option which works well for SBS and the ABC, but falls down badly at times when recording live commercial programs.

Regardless though of which way you handle the recording of two consecutive shows/programs, only ONE tuner is required. But, when it comes to recording 2 streams on the one tuner and or service, then yes, if you include pre and post padding on each and want to preserve these paddings, you wind up with only being able to record material from 3 tuners if you only have 6 streams available - is this maybe why you limited the number of tuners to three?

I for one would have been far happier to forgo the preservation of pre and post padding on two consecutive recordings, for having a fourth tuner. You could still have had the option of padding preservation if you were only recording from 3 tuners and only had 6 streams available, but an automatic disabling of pre and post padding preservation when a fourth tuner was required to come into play - hope this makes sense...
Phil.
Beyonwiz T2, DVDO Duo Video Processor

MoDementia

#263
Hi,

Answers to any or all of the following questions would be a big help.
What format/container do the recordings get written as?
What will the filename be?
How much of the Guide metadata is included in the file.
Is the hard drive sharable?
If I purchase 2 Skippas will Smart recording treat them as 1 and assign recordings to the main one first and then the other if conflicted?

These all have to do with
1 increasing the tuner count, I'm not convinced 3 will be enough as I have 4 now and still have conflicts on some days.
2 automating conversion (hopefully not required),  metadata lookup and renaming the file for Plex recognition and finally moving to my NAS

Movie Title (Year)
Series Name - s01e01 - Episode Name
Beyonwiz T4 ->, My Rename Code ->, VideoRedo AutoProcessor ->, Synology 1815+ ->, Plex + MediaMonkey

prl

Quote from: Dave at IceTV on May 04, 2015, 03:54:45 PM...
I've just learnt that the skippa has 6 'recording slots' and it's 'hard padding' is somewhat dynamic in that the skippa will drop the padding between shows if it needs to record back to back shows on the same tuner, or drop the padding if it would prevent a following show on another channel being recorded. If there is a tuner free it will record each show on it's own tuner with padding. If all tuners are in use it will record shows from the same network on the same tuner.
There are aspects of the Skippa's recording behaviour that are quite like the Beyonwiz T3's, but this is an important difference. The T3's padding is done simply by extending the timer. Once a timer has been created, it's impossible to know for sure what its padding settings were (and if you change your padding settings, the padding on existing tuners is unchanged). This means that the T3's padding is "rock hard", and isn't automatically adjusted to recording conditions.

However, although it's sold as "up to 8 simultaneous recordings", there's no fixed upper limit to the number. IIRC there have been reports of 12 or more simultaneous recordings, though if you did that and had problems, you may not get much interest from Beyonwiz support. While it's theoretically possible for this to break at some load level, I don't recall anyone posting that they had caused a failure due to the number of simultaneous recordings.

The T3 has only 4 demuxers, though (hardware limit), so while it can be extended to 4 tuners by adding a USB tuner, adding more than one won't get you anything more.

The usual tuner-based restrictions on the number of different broadcast channels that can be recorded at once apply, of course, but the way padding affects that will be different from the Skippa's behaviour as Dave has described it.
Peter
Beyonwiz T4 in-use
Beyonwiz T2, T3, T4, U4 & V2 for testing

Rat

IceTV posted on facebook yesterday promoting Skippa and I asked the same old "when will detailed info be available?" question and actually got an answer. It's better than nothing, but not sure why they can't release info before the preorders open, anyway not long to wait now until some info is forthcoming, I wonder how detailed it will be? Considering questions seem to only get answered once every 10 days or so then we will have to decide on the pre-order or not with whatever info they give us I assume.

Here is their answer from Facebook.....

"Hi. Pre-orders and detailed Skippa info are both expected Monday, May 25."

MoDementia

Thanks, not the best news, but news none-the-less

was hoping this week, early next  :(
Beyonwiz T4 ->, My Rename Code ->, VideoRedo AutoProcessor ->, Synology 1815+ ->, Plex + MediaMonkey

snuke

Their website also says 25th May 12:00pm for pre-orders.

EdQld

What would happen if you buy a not too cheap Skippa that is locked into using the IceTV EPG and heaven forbid, IceTV folds up?
You would then be left with an expensive brick! With the poor FTA programming of late and the rise of Video streaming via Stan & Netflix, the IceTV model will surely come under pressure?

csutak40

Quote from: Dave at IceTV on May 04, 2015, 03:54:45 PM

I've just learnt that the skippa has 6 'recording slots' and it's 'hard padding' is somewhat dynamic in that the skippa will drop the padding between shows if it needs to record back to back shows on the same tuner, or drop the padding if it would prevent a following show on another channel being recorded. If there is a tuner free it will record each show on it's own tuner with padding. If all tuners are in use it will record shows from the same network on the same tuner.
I'm not sure I like that idea.  What if it decides to drop the padding on a show, so you end up missing the end of a show that may have been really important to you? 
I am still using the ancient Toppy 5K, only because I love TED.  Lots of people (aside from me) asked at the beginning to do something similar to the way TED works, but obviously that didn't happen.   :'(
With TED, it tells me when there are clashes and it is up to me to decide how I want to handle it.  I have a choice of changing the padding (I can have different padding, manually set, for each show, if I want to override the default - for instance I always have a much shorter padding for the ABC and SBS) or decide not to record a particular show (perhaps record a repeat of the show later) Incidentally, I can also decide, individually, whether I wish to record repeats or not.  If it is a regular clash, I can tell TED (by a star system) which of the shows I consider more important.  It will also automatically merge consecutive  programs, so that a.) only one tuner is being used and b.) no padding needed at the end of the first
I realise that the Toppy 5K only has two tuners, so TED gets much more of a workout than a 3 tuner, 6 recording slots system would, but I still think that TED is a much better system than letting the PVR decide when to change the padding and for what show (and possibly which show not to record at all)
Here is a screen shot of what the TED can be set for (not very good, my 64bit system doesn't like TED very much  :( )
Cheers,
Judy
Last Update Dec 9 2020; Beyonwiz V2, T2,