Humax can't handle recording of successive shows.

dcoggins · February 07, 2013, 07:40:29 PM

I know this has been covered before, but I could see no solution. I am a fairly new user - I am wondering if it has been resolved or if there is any solution in sight??

I set two series of shows on the same channel to be recorded from IceTV website - last night I wanted Bargain Hunt (6.30 - 7.30) on 7Two and Heartbeat (7.30 - 8.40) on 7Two.

The first show was recorded with my end padding (20 mins) added, so it finished recording at 7.50. After a short gap the second recording started and finished at exactly 8.40. So the second recording ignored the padding completely.

The result was that I had to watch the start of Heartbeat on the end of Bargain Hunt, then switch over to the second recording, and of course I missed the end of Heartbeat as the broadcast finished late.

Will I have to live with this stupid problem? I could just handle watching a show on two separate files, but why does the padding vanish so I miss the end? It would be better to manually program these conflicts.

I really like the ease of setting up series recording from the IceTV website, but it loses some of its appeal when you have to check everything to make sure there's no overlap.

Doctor Whatuwant · February 07, 2013, 09:14:45 PM

I can only state what happens on a non-IceTV unit. I've never had a failure on recording overlap. If there is a recording overlap and you are watching a third channel you get an on-screen warning that the tuner is about to change. If I remember correctly the default is that the channel will change unless you intervene.
In no way am I inferring this is an IceTV issue, I don't know. The downside of using the channel guide for series recording is that you never know if it will work or not (mostly not). This is more to do with how the channels populate the guide I think. I just set the recorder by individual show.

Doc.

dcoggins · February 08, 2013, 07:05:32 AM

Thanks Doc. My main problem is when successive shows on the same channel are programmed - I don't seem to have a problem with conflicts on different channels. I think the padding causes the problem.

I would be interested to see what happens when two successive shows on the same channel are manually programmed - rather than through the IceTV website - might try that myself.

Last night I actually got a pop-up advising of a conflict when two successive shows on 7Two were programmed, but it wouldn't let me do anything about it. I had to manually stop the first, and then the second show on the same channel started recording. The file of the second show advised a recording failure, but it was OK anyway.

All very confusing.

prl · February 08, 2013, 10:26:50 AM

When you're recording successive shows on the same service, it's a common problem that if the first show runs late, part of that program ends up in the second recording. This happens on Beyonwizes, too (with or without IceTV), and on other PVRs.

What does sound wrong is the lack of padding at the end of the second show.

Padding on PVRs isn't normally handled by IceTV, so the problem is more likely with the PVR than with IceTV.

Doctor Whatuwant · February 08, 2013, 10:42:21 AM

I haven't had a problem with same channel overlap, and I also have padding.

Strange..

dcoggins · February 08, 2013, 12:05:49 PM

Thanks for the comments.

What I can't quite get to grips with is why my machine isn't smart enough in situations where there are succesive shows programmed on the same channel to think "OK - I'll ignore the padding on the first and leave it on the last". What mine seems to be doing is leave the padding on the first and removing it from the last.

But from what you say, prl and doc, your machines are OK in that situation? That would be with manual programming?

Hmmmm ... I'll check all my settings again, and try to set up a couple of tests manually to see what happens.

prl · February 08, 2013, 12:29:00 PM

Quote from: dcoggins on February 08, 2013, 12:05:49 PM
Thanks for the comments.

What I can't quite get to grips with is why my machine isn't smart enough in situations where there are succesive shows programmed on the same channel to think "OK - I'll ignore the padding on the first and leave it on the last". What mine seems to be doing is leave the padding on the first and removing it from the last.

But from what you say, prl and doc, your machines are OK in that situation? That would be with manual programming?
...

Yes, and with both manual and IceTV programming. But I run Beyonwizes, so all that shows is that it can be implemented correctly, including with IceTV.

Doctor Whatuwant · February 08, 2013, 10:48:49 PM

Quote from: dcoggins on February 08, 2013, 12:05:49 PM
What I can't quite get to grips with is why my machine isn't smart enough in situations where there are successive shows programmed on the same channel to think "OK - I'll ignore the padding on the first and leave it on the last". What mine seems to be doing is leave the padding on the first and removing it from the last.

I always thought it would use the other tuner for the second program. Or do you mean you have another program recording also? I don't think I've ever done that.

dcoggins · February 09, 2013, 07:10:43 AM

Quote from: Doctor Whatuwant on February 08, 2013, 10:48:49 PM
I always thought it would use the other tuner for the second program. Or do you mean you have another program recording also? I don't think I've ever done that.

My problem is with (say) Bargain Hunt on 7Two from 6.30 - 7.30, then Hearbeat on 7Two from 7.30 - 8.40 - they were the only programs being recorded. The problem still seems to be with the padding. It would certainly be a good idea to use the second tuner to record the second program, but The Humax doesn't appear to be smart enough to do that. I haven't had a chance to play with different settings yet - hopefully today.

prl · February 09, 2013, 04:48:03 PM

Quote from: Doctor Whatuwant on February 08, 2013, 10:48:49 PM
Quote from: dcoggins on February 08, 2013, 12:05:49 PM
What I can't quite get to grips with is why my machine isn't smart enough in situations where there are successive shows programmed on the same channel to think "OK - I'll ignore the padding on the first and leave it on the last". What mine seems to be doing is leave the padding on the first and removing it from the last.

I always thought it would use the other tuner for the second program. Or do you mean you have another program recording also? I don't think I've ever done that.

A second tuner isn't in fact required to do this, it just needs the PVR firmware to be able to send exactly the same data to two destinations during the overlap period. You think it'd be easy, but I don't know of any PVRs that can do this. Maybe it's possible on the quad-recording capable Topfields. It's certainly not possible on Beyonwizes.

There is a workaround for some manual recordings where the same program stream is sent on two different LCNs, like ABC1 on 2 and 21, but it only works for the few services that are broadcast that way. For ABC1, for example, you could record from 18:00-19:00 on ABC1 (LCN 2) and from 19:00-20:00 (LCN 21), and both would be padded. This certainly works on Beyonwiz, and may well work on Humax for the few services where there are two LCNs for the same program stream, but in any case won't work with IceTV recordings, only where at least one of them is set manually. Doing this doesn't use two tuners, only one (again on Beyonwizes, Humax may be different in that respect).

The way we deal with it is to simply record the programs with IceTV, and tell the Beyonwiz to play the two recordings consecutively. There's a break of less than a second in the playback when it switches from the first to the second recording. Again, I don't know if there's a way of achieving the same thing on Humax.

dcoggins · February 09, 2013, 06:10:12 PM

OK - I tried a test today by manually setting a recording from the IceTV EPG on a two consecutive 30 minute programs on the same channel, i.e. 1200 - 1230 and 1230 - 1300.

The result was perfect. The start padding was added to the recording of the first program which ended exactly at the start time of the recording of the second, then the padding time was added to the end of the second program. Exactly the result I would expect.

Thanks for your comments prl. As I said earlier, I have no problem with the two shows being spread randomly across a couple of files, as long as I have everything recorded somewhere.

So ... after all that, it seems that the Humax can get confused when it receives recordings of consecutive shows on the same channel from the IceTV server. I have no idea under what conditions it works or doesn't work, as I don't always have the same results. I wonder if it's a communications problem of some sort?

There's been no comment here from the IceTV gurus, so I'm not sure whether it's a known problem or whether no-one else has mentioned it recently.

Dave at IceTV · February 11, 2013, 01:12:08 AM

Quote from: dcoggins on February 09, 2013, 06:10:12 PM
The start padding was added to the recording of the first program which ended exactly at the start time of the recording of the second, then the padding time was added to the end of the second program. Exactly the result I would expect.

This is how the Humax, and all PVRs, should work.

Apart from the early Humax software that often failed to add any padding, I have never heard of a situation before where the padding is missing off the end of the second recording (if there were no other recordings requiring the 2 tuners). And I have never heard of a situation where the first recording had end padding when there was another recording following on the same channel.

One possible cause of a recording stopping early is an incorrect date or time signal being sent by the channel being viewed. A week or two ago 31 Digital in Brisbane were broadcasting a time that was 2 hours early and it took them almost a week to fix it. If the Humax changed to ch44 while it was recording the recording would have ended right then. But that would not explain the end padding on the first recording.

Make sure that you have Dynamic Update turned off.

kay67kay · March 19, 2013, 05:02:04 PM

just set up my new humax. still trying to work it out. it's a fair bit different to a tivo :-\
anyway, dcoggins ... you found that the padding sorted itself if you set the programs manually by looking at the tv and pressing buttons on the remote and it messed up when you tried to set the programs using your computer? that's what i'm reading. please correct me if i'm wrong.

cheers

kay

dcoggins · March 19, 2013, 06:04:22 PM

Kay, I'm not quite sure what happened - I think it was a glitch somewhere. My main problem was when I scheduled two seccessive shows on the same channel, there was some weird conflict, but it has been running perfectly since from the IceTV website.

I had recently got a replacement machine (my first one died) and was still getting it set up properly. It seems to take a week or so to get itself properly organised, but it is fine now, so I wouldn't worry. The only problem now is that some of the commercial channels pack so many bloody ads in their shows, 10 minutes end padding is not enough!!!

kay67kay · March 19, 2013, 08:45:44 PM

ah, ok. thanks dcoggins. the hardest thing for me will be going from the tivo to the humax. i've set my padding to 20 minuttes, because even with 15 minutes padding on the tivo, i'd miss the end of something sometimes. you'd think if a previous show ran over, they'd cut some of the ads in the next show to catch up, wouldn't you?