PIMP for Topfields

[JPP]

Hi guys,

I've been away for the last 5 weeks, so may have missed out on the good oil. What is the news for having PIMP available for the Topfield PVR's - especially via direct web connection, i.e just like I'm currently downloading the ICE guide directly to the Toppy via the IceBox2 (not via a PC)? I read in other related threads that 4 hour updates are possible with soft padding. That implies that ICE will update your recording times for a selected program on a 4 hourly basis (if necessary). Have I got that right? I also take it that PIMP will allow for dual timer setting for the TF5000 series PVRs, and resolve timer conflicts as well?

Phil.

[JPP]

PeterV or Daniel - any comments?

[Paul]

I asked ICETV when/if they where planning on implimenting PIMP for Topfield - got this response:

Hi Paul,

It is being considered but we do not know when it is likely to be
implemented.

Any third-party TAP developers interested in connecting their TAP to our
PIMP server should contact us.

Regards,

Daniel
IceTV Support Team

This is now being discussed on the Toppy forum

[JPP]

Thanks Paul. Have caught up with the Toppy forum now.

IceTV, I'm dissapointed. I understood from earlier posts/conversations some months ago that PIMP was going to support the Topfield PVRs as a matter of priority. Correct me please if I'm wrong, but I would imagine that the bulk of IceTV subscribers are in fact Topfield PVR owners. If not, I would imagine that many more will be in the near future as broadcasters are making it more and more difficult for grabbers to function.

If the bulk of IceTV subscribers are indeed TF PVR owners, shouldn't they be the first group to be looked after? The means of direct communication with the Topfield PVRs is already well established and proven with the IceBox2. Even if it meant that initial PIMP service would only be provided to IceBox2 owners, that would be a good start.

I would be delighted to hear comments/input from Peter Vogel or Daniel.

Phil.

[srto2]

Even if it meant that initial PIMP service would only be provided to IceBox2 owners, that would be a good start.

Hah!  Not to mention us poor, pioneering, long suffering (and forgotten) Icebox1 owners...

;D

Cheers,
Rob

[pvogel]

Just a note to confirm that we are reading this thread and considering how best to proceed. We chose the MCE and EyeTV to PIMP initially as these are easy to program and are internet connected. As you know, the Topfield is hard to program and not connected to the net   :(

I'll let you know what we come up with after internal discussions.

Sorry I can't be more definite...

Peter

[mtb]

Peter/Daniel,

How about via TED/S - check your PM.

Mike

[JPP]

Just a note to confirm that we are reading this thread and considering how best to proceed. We chose the MCE and EyeTV to PIMP initially as these are easy to program and are internet connected. As you know, the Topfield is hard to program and not connected to the net   :(

I'll let you know what we come up with after internal discussions.

Sorry I can't be more definite...

Peter

Thanks for replying Peter.

But, isn't the Topfield connected directly to the internet via IceBox2? That's how mine is set up - no PC in the link - straight from the Icebox2 (which is connected to the Toppy via USB of course) into my ADSL router onto the internet. As for being hard to program, there's already a lot of talent out there and Dave has already begun to set the wheels in motion by getting in contact with you re commands needed to have PIMP communicate with the IceBox re timers etc.

See about halfway up this http://www.topfield-australia.com.au/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=75429#75429 page.

Hope this will help you in deciding to make the Toppy PIMP enabled as a matter of priority. I've certainly lauded the capabilities of PIMP in the above thread, and no, I don't have any shares in IceTV. The more painlessly IceTV can be connected up to PVRs and the more it can be made to work with a minimum of fuss and user intervention, the greater the uptake surely. Having it connected directly to the internet without having to pass control through a PC for daily EPG downloading makes it far easier and more reliable - I can certainly attest to that having had it setup that way since having had the IceBox2 over the past 6 months or so. Using PIMP to set timers remotely from anywhere in the world, and having PIMP look after the setting up (and correcting) of timers for Favourite programs gives the user ultimate control and piece of mind. (Am I writing an add for IceTV here??  ;D). For every day and local timer setting I use the Just EPG Tap - a great improvement over the Toppy's in-built EPG Guide and Timer setting programs.

Anyway, to come back to the issue at hand, I think with the close co-operation of some of the Toppy gurus (and some are very willing), it should not take up too much of your resources to get it going. Bear in mind too, that the work put into this will or should be almost totally portable to the new TF5600 wireless Toppy.

Again, thanks for your participation - it is very much appreciated.

Cheers,

Phil.

Addendum:

Sorry for this addendum which is a copy of what I posted in another PIMP thread, but for the sake of convenience and relevance to this post, here it is

Hi Shane,

I've been posting a bit in the Topfield PIMP thread, but reading your post here I have a suggestion that will perhaps get around the 24/7 ON requirement.

In the case of my Toppy, which I have directly connected to the net via the IceBox2, I have suggested in one of my posts that the timer info could perhaps be slotted in at the same time as the user has set his IceBox up to get the EPG from the Ice Server. For example in my case, I have set the time to get the EPG at 2.15pm, during a half hour of a non-recording timer on the Toppy between 2 and 2.30pm.

Now I normally don't have any recordings set for daytime, so the Toppy is in standby except for that half hour. But, I have noticed, that if the Toppy isn't ON at the time you have the upload of the EPG set, the IceBox2 will actually cue the transmission to the Toppy and continually retry, firstly every 1/2 hr from memory, and then hourly, until it finally gets it into your Toppy when it's powered up.

So, even if the Toppy is OFF at the time the upload of the EPG, it will get it eventually. If the PIMP commands could likewise be cued, it wouldn't matter when the Toppy came ON, as long as of course it would come on before the updated or new timer was to kick in.

Not sure how this would work on a PC based PVR, but the above might be some food for thought.

[pvogel]

Unfortunately it’s not so simple to PIMP a Toppy. The Toppy is not connected to the internet even when used with the WiFi router. The intelligence needs to be provided in the router itself which means writing the code within the restrictions of that small embedded device.

Then the router needs to communicate with the Toppy via file transfers since the private message USB protocol API does not work (Toppy bugs).

So what seems like a straightforward task rapidly blows into many hundreds of hours of engineering time which takes a lot of subscribers to fund, at the $3 per week we get in return.

Of course we are doing all we can to find a commercially viable solution, maybe by cooperating with the open-source community.  Stay tuned.

Peter Vogel
CTO IceTV

[JPP]

Thanks Peter. As seems nearly always the case these days, there's more to it then meets the eye. Let me know when the time comes to grab me as your first guinea pig. ;D

[JPP]

Unfortunately it’s not so simple to PIMP a Toppy. The Toppy is not connected to the internet even when used with the WiFi router. The intelligence needs to be provided in the router itself which means writing the code within the restrictions of that small embedded device.

Then the router needs to communicate with the Toppy via file transfers since the private message USB protocol API does not work (Toppy bugs).

So what seems like a straightforward task rapidly blows into many hundreds of hours of engineering time which takes a lot of subscribers to fund, at the $3 per week we get in return.

Of course we are doing all we can to find a commercially viable solution, maybe by cooperating with the open-source community.  Stay tuned.

Peter Vogel
CTO IceTV

Peter,

I've just re-read this post and I think I need a bit more education.

At the moment, I can get timer info in and out of the Toppy using the IceBox2 as the connection device between it and my PC via my router. For example, Trappers TED can read and set times, read and copy data files and set the TURBO command, all via FTP. So it would seem that the protocols to do these functions is already in place. What am I missing here?

Phil.

[mtb]

For example, Trappers TED can read and set times, read and copy data files and set the TURBO command, all via FTP. So it would seem that the protocols to do these functions is already in place. What am I missing here?

I agree, I've already discussed it briefly with trapper but am still waiting on a reply from Peter/Daniel....

How about via TED/S - check your PM

Trapper appeared open to the idea in principle though has rather a lot of work on just now.  I presumed it should be possible to embed, prepend or append the selection criteria in/to the standard files for a region based on the user selections.

Ok, so it's not ideal since it requires the PC element, but it's a damned sight better than nothing.

[peteru]

I've done my own survey on the Topfield Forums to gauge the interest in having a Toppy PIMP client. The sad news is, that the limited amount of interest shown is hardly worth the effort I would have to expend on implementing PIMP support on the Toppy. IceTV may have a different perspective on this, but I've got better things to do than wrestle with the buggy TAP environment.

That's right! One of the major obstacles is the complete lack of support for the TAP environment and Topfield's unwillingness to fix bugs reported years ago. The Toppy programming environment is just not good enough to pull this off in a manner that gives a seamless user experience.

Perhaps the next generation of Topfield products will be better, but the current TF5x00PVRt series just isn't fun to code for.

[deangelj]

Hi Peter,

Just get the Toppy developer community to pitch in. There are a bunch of us that could help out. Maybe publish a spec for a web-based service (eg web services) that could be implemented on any platform/language. We already have a way to send timer updates from pc/unix to the toppy.

So for me, for example, I have a pc, web-based solution that interacts with the toppy. I could offer a web service that generates timer updates to the toppy.

cheers,
John

[peteru]

PIMP is a web based service. PIMP clients communicate with the server by using HTTP POST requests.