When is ICE TV going to support Media Center Properly and not treat it as a PVR?

Started by dJOS, September 21, 2010, 04:13:33 PM

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lukem

Quote from: dJOS on December 15, 2011, 12:09:21 PM
Quote from: Luke at IceTV on December 14, 2011, 06:56:29 PM
With the current methodology of sending simple recording instructions to the box we can actually enhance the way series and keyword recordings are managed and offer it to a much larger PVR audience than just Media Center. Also note that if all your recordings are managed by Ice, and your Media Center box blows up it's a single click to 'resend all recordings' to a replacement box.

Your current methodology is well suited to "normal" PVR's, however all the features you have can be done by MC out of the box, I'm suggesting you "actively manage" those features in 7MC rather than duplicate them by implementing silly hacks like creating & deleting single shows that are part of a series.

Instead use the ICE Integration software as a management interface that takes advantage of all the built in MC features rather than trying to make MC just another dumb PVR! That way MC ICE TV subscribers can take advantage of all the great ICE Web/iPhone/etc features and know that they will work every time because they are managing existing features instead of implementing unnecessary hacks/work arounds!

The hacks/workaround as you put it are a consequence of us having to reverse engineer Media Center as the published SDK is quite limited and thus we have had to hook in at a lower level, which is not published information, nor is Microsoft willing to provide any technical input, resources or documentation on how to achieve this. These problems exist regardless of whether we  create a one-time recording or a series recording. Programmatically they are similar, and to be honest, creating the recording itself is not a difficult task.

So in other words, our time is better spent enhancing the way in which recordings are managed "in the cloud" and ensuring that Media Center does the correct thing with the recording instructions. The type of recording is actually irrelevant, the ability to reliably communicate, instruct, and resolve collisions for the box is the key to it's success.




dJOS

Quote from: Luke at IceTV on December 15, 2011, 12:42:21 PM
The hacks/workaround as you put it are a consequence of us having to reverse engineer Media Center as the published SDK is quite limited and thus we have had to hook in at a lower level, which is not published information, nor is Microsoft willing to provide any technical input, resources or documentation on how to achieve this. These problems exist regardless of whether we  create a one-time recording or a series recording. Programmatically they are similar, and to be honest, creating the recording itself is not a difficult task.

Im aware of this however others have managed it eg WebGuide for VistaMC and BigScreen Remote for 7MC

Quote from: Luke at IceTV on December 15, 2011, 12:42:21 PMSo in other words, our time is better spent enhancing the way in which recordings are managed "in the cloud" and ensuring that Media Center does the correct thing with the recording instructions. The type of recording is actually irrelevant, the ability to reliably communicate, instruct, and resolve collisions for the box is the key to it's success.

Im not saying dont keep things in the cloud, what im saying is the approach to MC is wrong and it shouldn't be treated as a dumb PVR (because it isnt - reminds me of Blackberry taking over MS Exchange instead of using Active Sync and look how well that's going for them).
My Home Theatre Project

Quad Tuner 7MC box now replaced by 2x TiVo's HD's by order of the Wife!

lukem

Quote from: dJOS on December 15, 2011, 12:58:12 PM
Quote from: Luke at IceTV on December 15, 2011, 12:42:21 PM
The hacks/workaround as you put it are a consequence of us having to reverse engineer Media Center as the published SDK is quite limited and thus we have had to hook in at a lower level, which is not published information, nor is Microsoft willing to provide any technical input, resources or documentation on how to achieve this. These problems exist regardless of whether we  create a one-time recording or a series recording. Programmatically they are similar, and to be honest, creating the recording itself is not a difficult task.

Im aware of this however others have managed it eg WebGuide for VistaMC and BigScreen Remote for 7MC


Quote from: Luke at IceTV on December 15, 2011, 12:42:21 PMSo in other words, our time is better spent enhancing the way in which recordings are managed "in the cloud" and ensuring that Media Center does the correct thing with the recording instructions. The type of recording is actually irrelevant, the ability to reliably communicate, instruct, and resolve collisions for the box is the key to it's success.

Im not saying dont keep things in the cloud, what im saying is the approach to MC is wrong and it shouldn't be treated as a dumb PVR (because it isnt - reminds me of Blackberry taking over MS Exchange instead of using Active Sync and look how well that's going for them).

I note that the guy who wrote Webguide wrote the XP/Vista versions for IceTV Interactive for us ;)

BigScreen By Remote is a nice product but only works with Media Center and requires you to forward ports on your router.

Like I said, creating series recordings in Media Center isn't the issue... there are a few technical challenges on the server side to handle Media Center differently, no big deal... but whether or not our investment into this feature will bring a return ... that's the issue. There are better features that we can develop that give both the customer and IceTV more value .. like spreading recordings across multiple devices to avoid conflicts, streaming your recordings to your smartphone, offering more content, etc.

I can't comment on Blackberry.. except that I think even Samsung Bada is doing better .. and that's saying something.

dJOS

Quote from: Luke at IceTV on December 16, 2011, 06:39:29 PM
Like I said, creating series recordings in Media Center isn't the issue... there are a few technical challenges on the server side to handle Media Center differently, no big deal... but whether or not our investment into this feature will bring a return ... that's the issue. There are better features that we can develop that give both the customer and IceTV more value .. like spreading recordings across multiple devices to avoid conflicts, streaming your recordings to your smartphone, offering more content, etc.

I think the thing to take away from this conversation is that how you support a platform like MC is just as important as actually supporting it.  I doubt most MC customers are typical "PVR" Customers and a high percentage will be Home brewed systems (mine certainly was and have a look over at the Aus MC forums for thousands of others), so to make ICE TV worth the money the way it operates has to take advantage of the already excellent feature set properly to win customers. (imo)

FWIW, I'm currently a Customer Delivery Manager in the ICT space and have spent many years in Business Analyst & Service Management roles.  8)
My Home Theatre Project

Quad Tuner 7MC box now replaced by 2x TiVo's HD's by order of the Wife!

dawesi

Media center master (free) will update your movie pictures, and do all sorts of sweet goodness.

it will even automatically download new episodes of your favourite shows for you and place them in the right directory.

Plays super well with uTorrent and Media Browser. I'd recommend paying for the MCM premium and MB (about $30 bucks all up), and live your life sweeter!

Teejai

I know this is an old thread but has ICE changed its mind on series recording or is there a way around it? My problem is I have a windows home server and it can archive an individual show or a series. With ICE interactive not setting as a series I have to manually edit it in the guide to a series or mark every single show to archive.

bodogbodog

Quote from: Teejai on July 25, 2012, 11:17:11 AM
My problem is I have a windows home server and it can archive an individual show or a series. With ICE interactive not setting as a series I have to manually edit it in the guide to a series or mark every single show to archive.

I have a WHS and 2 Media Centers and both auto archive programmes recorded after being setup using IceTV to WHS without any issues - series show up in the programme listing and play fine via my XBOX 360 extender. I don't have to do anything manually for this to happen

Can you clarify what it is you are trying to achieve and what is not working for you
Beyonwiz V2: 4 HDTV Tuners, 16gb SD + unRaid 10TB NAS + IceTV Skippa (for old times sake - make me an offer and it's yours!)

Teejai

The issue is if I set a series record from the IceTV app it sets it in media center as an individual recording and not a series.

I don't archive everything to my WHS only individual shows or an entire series. Let's say I set masterchef to series record. Under the ice way I have to mark every show for achieving instead of simply marking the series to archive.

bodogbodog

Quote from: Teejai on July 27, 2012, 02:23:26 PM
The issue is if I set a series record from the IceTV app it sets it in media center as an individual recording and not a series.

Ok - thanks for clarifying your issue

Something is not working correctly as I use IceTV to setup series recording on two different Media Centers (and on a third Beyonwiz) - and I sucessfully record series all the time  (I'd die if I had to schedule individual episodes)

I dont know what to suggest - maybe reinstalling IceTV or first trying resending your recordings from IceTV - but I can assure you series recordings in Media Center via IceTV definitely work

I have each Media Center setup to automatically transfer all recordings to my WHS and we can then stream everything off that to XBOX's as media extenders
Beyonwiz V2: 4 HDTV Tuners, 16gb SD + unRaid 10TB NAS + IceTV Skippa (for old times sake - make me an offer and it's yours!)