Author Topic: ABC HD already showing different programming to ABC1  (Read 12776 times)

Offline prl

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Re: ABC HD already showing different programming to ABC1
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2010, 04:07:32 PM »
Did a rescan on Windows 7 and it put ABC News 24 on lcn 24 but I got no 21 and the radio channels went to 25 and 26.

So I scanned a sd stb and it put 2 21 22 23 24 200 201
But I cant see ABC News 24 as its in HD! Isn't it meant to be in sd?

Oh well That's freeview for you.
Kevin

I mentioned =http://forum.icetv.com.au/iceforum/index.php?topic=2582.msg12754#msg12754earlier in the topic that (at least in the ACT) the second ABC1 LCN, 21 had gone in these changes. ABC1 is still available on LCN 2.

I don't think these changes have much to do with Freeview.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2010, 04:10:01 PM by prl »
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Offline zoszos68

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Re: ABC HD already showing different programming to ABC1
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2010, 04:14:06 PM »
I had to put ABC News 24 listings as ABC HDTV.
So is it possible to have a guide listing for News 24 thats says 24 not hdtv.
Kevin
Ps the fun of freeview lol

Offline Daniel Hall at IceTV

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Re: ABC HD already showing different programming to ABC1
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2010, 04:38:53 PM »
We have just rescanned our test boxes and seen the same thing.

Channel names and numbers have been updated accordingly.
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Offline tonymy01

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Re: ABC HD already showing different programming to ABC1
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2010, 06:59:11 PM »
It definitely was sent flagged as 5.1 the past few weeks, but with the L&R audio of the stereo source put straight into the 5.1 FL (front left) and FR, this is something no-one would want.   Anyway, I checked last night and ABCHD in Sydney is now the promo thing with DD2.0 audio instead.
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Offline zoszos68

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Re: ABC HD already showing different programming to ABC1
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2010, 07:40:57 PM »
Did a rescan on Windows 7 and it put ABC News 24 on lcn 24 but I got no 21 and the radio channels went to 25 and 26.

So I scanned a sd stb and it put 2 21 22 23 24 200 201
But I cant see ABC News 24 as its in HD! Isn't it meant to be in sd?

Oh well That's freeview for you.
Kevin

I mentioned =http://forum.icetv.com.au/iceforum/index.php?topic=2582.msg12754#msg12754earlier in the topic that (at least in the ACT) the second ABC1 LCN, 21 had gone in these changes. ABC1 is still available on LCN 2.

I don't think these changes have much to do with Freeview.


I scanned a stb and it had 21 but on one of my media centers (windows 7) there was no 21 while the other one had 2 abc1 (but with the wrong channel numbers).
Not sure whats going on there.
Kevin

Offline raymondjpg

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Re: ABC HD already showing different programming to ABC1
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2010, 07:50:15 PM »
It definitely was sent flagged as 5.1 the past few weeks, but with the L&R audio of the stereo source put straight into the 5.1 FL (front left) and FR, this is something no-one would want.   Anyway, I checked last night and ABCHD in Sydney is now the promo thing with DD2.0 audio instead.

Maybe in Sydney?

I don't think so in the ACT. A Doctor Who recording from ABC HD on Sunday 4 July was definitely 2 channel AC3, and that included 10 minutes pre- and 20 minutes post-program padding. An MPEG2 video of the program extracted from the transport stream was also 2 channel AC3. That was before the ABC News 24 promo started here. Not to say that some program material may have been broadcast with 5.1 AC3, but I have not detected it yet.

If you are right, then ABC has surround sound capability and is either not using it, or if they are, according to what you say, not using it properly (although I don't understand what you mean by "flagged as 5.1.." but a "stereo source...").
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Offline JPP

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Re: ABC HD already showing different programming to ABC1
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2010, 08:27:24 PM »
In the ACT, and I presume this will happen/has happened nationally, ABC HD (previously on LCN 20) has been replaced by ABC News 24 on LCN 24.

The ACT Web IceTV Guide and My Account>TV Guide page is still naming the service as ABC HD and on LCN 20, but it's now showing a 24-hour block of programming starting at midnight called ABC News 24 Coming Soon. It doesn't look as though other My Account setups have changed yet, either (but I only looked at a few).

Really such a waste of bit bandwidth doing news in HD.
That might depend a bit on the bit rate they are going to allocate to it.
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Offline raymondjpg

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Re: ABC HD already showing different programming to ABC1
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2010, 08:40:12 PM »
In the ACT, and I presume this will happen/has happened nationally, ABC HD (previously on LCN 20) has been replaced by ABC News 24 on LCN 24.

The ACT Web IceTV Guide and My Account>TV Guide page is still naming the service as ABC HD and on LCN 20, but it's now showing a 24-hour block of programming starting at midnight called ABC News 24 Coming Soon. It doesn't look as though other My Account setups have changed yet, either (but I only looked at a few).

Really such a waste of bit bandwidth doing news in HD.
That might depend a bit on the bit rate they are going to allocate to it.

Last time I looked (today) they were allocating maximum bitrate 1404900 bytes per second for the promo!

I would agree that is a waste of bandwidth for news, but on the other hand ABC has rarely shown any evidence of using its HD bandwidth for anything I would class as HD TV. Not that they are alone, either.
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Offline tonymy01

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Re: ABC HD already showing different programming to ABC1
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2010, 09:47:39 PM »
If you are right, then ABC has surround sound capability and is either not using it, or if they are, according to what you say, not using it properly (although I don't understand what you mean by "flagged as 5.1.." but a "stereo source...").
All stuff ABC shows is stereo source typically.   Very rare to have a 5.1 show (I remember "Oils on the Water" was broadcast with 5.1 on ABC SD years ago mind you!!).   So it is safe to say that all the material ABC has is stereo with possibly surround encoding only (i.e. 2 channel).   So it is not correct to put the 2 channels of source into the FL and FR of a discrete 5.1 stream.   I would expect their broadcasting encoder would have an option of flagging 5.1 (with a 5.1 source) but they had it setup to send 5.1 with only a stereo input to their system physically (accidentally obviously).   That is what I meant.
If your Canberra recording is only stereo, then the issue must have not been there, but it was definitely in Sydney:   I picked the middle of this thread, but it was mentioned more than once: http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?s=&showtopic=88853&view=findpost&p=1570715 (last posts in that thread also, and earlier ones)  Some people were excited their 5.1 LEDs/VFD was lighting up on their receivers, but when it is a stereo source (and you are used to typical main coming from centre channel, surround effects coming from the rest) it sounds lousy to hear everything coming out of only FL/FR.

Another good thread:  http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=88574&st=20&p=1577678&#entry1577678
« Last Edit: July 08, 2010, 10:54:45 PM by tonymy01 »
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Tony

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Offline raymondjpg

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Re: ABC HD already showing different programming to ABC1
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2010, 01:58:05 PM »
If you are right, then ABC has surround sound capability and is either not using it, or if they are, according to what you say, not using it properly (although I don't understand what you mean by "flagged as 5.1.." but a "stereo source...").
All stuff ABC shows is stereo source typically.   Very rare to have a 5.1 show (I remember "Oils on the Water" was broadcast with 5.1 on ABC SD years ago mind you!!).   So it is safe to say that all the material ABC has is stereo with possibly surround encoding only (i.e. 2 channel).   So it is not correct to put the 2 channels of source into the FL and FR of a discrete 5.1 stream.   I would expect their broadcasting encoder would have an option of flagging 5.1 (with a 5.1 source) but they had it setup to send 5.1 with only a stereo input to their system physically (accidentally obviously).   That is what I meant.
If your Canberra recording is only stereo, then the issue must have not been there, but it was definitely in Sydney:   I picked the middle of this thread, but it was mentioned more than once: http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?s=&showtopic=88853&view=findpost&p=1570715 (last posts in that thread also, and earlier ones)  Some people were excited their 5.1 LEDs/VFD was lighting up on their receivers, but when it is a stereo source (and you are used to typical main coming from centre channel, surround effects coming from the rest) it sounds lousy to hear everything coming out of only FL/FR.

Another good thread:  http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=88574&st=20&p=1577678&#entry1577678



OK, I think I see what you mean. My interpretation of what you are saying, and what the links you provide are saying, is that the ABC broadcast encoders have on occasion been set incorrectly for broadcasting a stereo signal.

If this is correct, then the corollary is that ABC may have 5.1 AC3 sound broadcast capability, but they aren't using it. And if this is the case, then one has to ask why not? I can only surmise that either the broadcasters consider that there is insufficient demand, or consumers lack the necessary technology to downmix 5.1 sound to a reasonable sounding stereo if they do not have surround sound decoders.

To my mind neither is sufficient reason, let alone excuse, not to utilise the capabilities of TV to the full, including broadcasting surround sound where available. Otherwise consumers will have little or no incentive to invest in the necessary technology to take advantage of it.

I can understand why broadcasters limit SD broadcasts to stereo sound, but not on HD streams where there is parallel programming such as is the case with Channels 7 and 9, and until recently ABC. It seems to me that our "premier broadcaster" has now abandoned any prospect of utilising their HD channel to the full in favour of a "Horror Movie Right Here On Our TV". For a country that prides itself on being technologically savvy we seem to be curiously backward in this department.
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Offline tonymy01

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Re: ABC HD already showing different programming to ABC1
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2010, 05:23:05 PM »
All STBs that have AC3/DD support (and include DVD players also) support downmixing to 2 channel, so that is no excuse to not send proper 5.1.   Just not the lame FL/FR incorrectly flagged 5.1 that ABCHD had in some regions last couple of months.
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Offline prl

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Re: ABC HD already showing different programming to ABC1
« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2010, 05:42:18 PM »
I don't see much likelihood of true 5.1 for the news. For the studio, why bother? And I don't think that there'll be enough sound guys around to do 5.1 sound for reporting.

Another instance that shows what a silly idea HD news broadcasting is, IMO. That is, selecting 24-hour news for your only HD service. If everything was being broadcast in HD, then why not news, too, but what the ABC has done just seems a waste of bit bandwidth on something that isn't going to be materially improved by using HD.

I wonder if the special HD exemption for the ABC and SBS is coming to an end, and this is the cheapest way for the ABC to fill in the hours. They certainly have never bought much HD content. The HD quota rules allow the ABC and SBS to rescale SD, or digitise analog TV and call it HD. The commercials may only count native HD.

Of course it's not only the ABC that uses largely studio-based programming to boost their HD content hours. I can't really see that, for example, Sunrise gains all that much by being in HD.
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Offline raymondjpg

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Re: ABC HD already showing different programming to ABC1
« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2010, 06:01:10 PM »
I don't see much likelihood of true 5.1 for the news. For the studio, why bother? And I don't think that there'll be enough sound guys around to do 5.1 sound for reporting.

Another instance that shows what a silly idea HD news broadcasting is, IMO. That is, selecting 24-hour news for your only HD service. If everything was being broadcast in HD, then why not news, too, but what the ABC has done just seems a waste of bit bandwidth on something that isn't going to be materially improved by using HD.

I wonder if the special HD exemption for the ABC and SBS is coming to an end, and this is the cheapest way for the ABC to fill in the hours. They certainly have never bought much HD content. The HD quota rules allow the ABC and SBS to rescale SD, or digitise analog TV and call it HD. The commercials may only count native HD.

Of course it's not only the ABC that uses largely studio-based programming to boost their HD content hours. I can't really see that, for example, Sunrise gains all that much by being in HD.

Since when has 9 or 7 broadcast any native HD content in the ACT in 2010? We are now in the seventh month of the year, and I haven't detected any yet. It looks to me like rescaled SD.

At least SBS and ABC have dignified their HD broadcasts with an HD logo; I haven't seen an HD logo on HD streams of 9 or 7 since the introduction of GO! and 7TWO.
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Offline prl

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Re: ABC HD already showing different programming to ABC1
« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2010, 07:07:35 PM »
...
Since when has 9 or 7 broadcast any native HD content in the ACT in 2010? We are now in the seventh month of the year, and I haven't detected any yet. It looks to me like rescaled SD.
...
The ACMA HTDV Quota Compliance figures aren't publicly available for 2010 yet, the reporting period is the calendar year. However, for 2009, WIN NSW reported a total of 1811:05 hours of HD broadcasts for the year, of which 456:55 hours were prime time. Prime Southern reported 2456:45 and 725:57 hours respectively. Both are well above the quota requirements (AFAIK there isn't a specific quota for prime time HD), though the quota is less than 3hr/day. If you think that they're claiming upscaled SD material to be HD, then you should address the matter to ACMA, since that's likely to be a breach of the Broadcasting Services Act.

It does emphasise my point about programs like Sunrise (Seven/Prime), though, since Sunrise alone fulfills the day's quota every day it runs.

The quota requirements are:
Quote from: ACMA
Commercial and national broadcasters in the metropolitan areas of mainland Australia are required to broadcast at least 1040 hours of high definition television (HDTV) programs each year. The obligation to broadcast HDTV programs also applies to a number of broadcasters in regional areas and will eventually apply to all commercial and national TV broadcasters across Australia.

The ABC and SBS are permitted to convert their analog or standard definition digital television programs to high definition format.
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Offline prl

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Re: ABC HD already showing different programming to ABC1
« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2010, 07:11:08 PM »
...
At least SBS and ABC have dignified their HD broadcasts with an HD logo; I haven't seen an HD logo on HD streams of 9 or 7 since the introduction of GO! and 7TWO.
The joke's really the other way around. As far as I know, the only native HD SBS have ever broadcast was the 2009 Ashes Series in the UK. The ABC has screened more native HD, but very little of it.
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