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Maybe because it's the ABC (SD) guide is unreliable, and because you are copying it to HD, you are receiving that same unreliable feed?

For example, today, there is apparently nothing on at all on ABC1. ABC2 shows up OK, but no programming data for ABC1. But reality says that ABC1 is running programs as usual today. Not according to IceTV!

IceTV only has HD broadcasts listed when they are actually broadcast in native HD.

I get that - but the question is - WHY? It doesn't make any sense. It's not like nothing is being broadcast on the channel at those times, so why is the guide empty? Could someone please explain this to me, because it defies all logic. I just want IceTV to tell me what is on what channel at what time - not to tell me what content is worthy of my consideration.

The ABC broadcasts very little in native HD, so the IceTV guide for ABC HD is mostly empty. Programs that are actually broadcast in native HD are in the guide. I think the only prime time program on the ABC that's currently being broadcast in HD is Robin Hood.

So, "Copy SD to HD doesn't work when Robin Hood is on? Because that sounds like a specific HD guide to me.

The ABC HD guide isn't specific, since the ABC doesn't multicast on HD.

So, if it isn't specific, do you not list Robin Hood?

Sounds like IceTV is rewarding the commercial stations for abusing their broadcast licenses, and punishing the ABC for not abusing theirs. HD channels are NOT supposed to be used for multicasting - they are supposed to be used for broadcasting HD versions of the same content that is on the SD channel.

ABC HD does not have a specific HD guide,

So, you don't even list ABC HD broadcasts, even when they are being broadcast in HD? This is contrary to what has been said before about only listing shows on HD channels that are broadcast in HD. It's all very confusing.

As far as the "unknown content" issue - I discovered IceTV through an interview on Boxcutters, where it was said that you create guide content by actually watching the stations. For example, you would update the guide is a show was going to run late or whatever. This was highly touted on Boxcutters.

So, are those days over? If the ABC doesn't provide a guide, can't you monitor the channels and generate it from there? I thought that's what IceTV was supposed to be about - a real guide based on the actual programming, and informed decisions from TV experts.

I find the guide format used on IceTV Remote and the Widget to be very difficult to read. All channels lumped together in half-hour blocks? Weird. It also doesn't handle shows that don't begin on the half-hour very well.

How about offering a standard 2-dimensional grid, with channels in one dimension, and time in the other dimension? I still frequently use ebroadcast.com and the Green Guide, simply because their guides are so much easier to read at a glance than IceTV.

[no]

In the case of ABC and SBS we are able to use the information from there websites, however neither of these stations publish a "HD" channel guide, there is also no confirmation that all shows that are on the SD channel will be played on the HD channel.

Have you tried asking them if they'll give you this information?

Also, this seems untrue. I get guide information for those channels broadcast in the DVB stream.

We took the stance a long time ago that it was better to have an "Unknown" section in the guide than to list a program that may not be shown on that channel.

And how many of your users did you ask about what they would prefer? Couldn't you list the predicted content, and then use a "HD" flag for the shows that are known to be broadcast in HD? Then you could add a "prefer HD" option to IceTV remote. That way, if there is a known HD broadcast, it would record that, otherwise fall back on whatever SD broadcast of that show is available.

And in the meantime if you are happy with the occasional show being listed in the guide that is not on the HD channel then you can use the "Copy SD to HD" option that's available under the My Account section of the IceTV website.

Uhhh, we were told that this would affect ALL HD channels. And I was specifically told that it was "impossible"  to implement a feature where this could be enabled on an individual channel basis.

Not true, the "Copy SD to HD" function will only be used for channels that do not have a specific HD guide.

So, it will only work on SBS? Doesn't ABC HD have occasional HD data, making it a "specific HD guide"? It would be nice if we were actually told in the beginning how this is supposed to work.

So, what's the current situation with ABC and SBS HDTV?

Now that you have been showing data for the commecial HD channels, will we get proper guides for SBS and ABC, too? Because now that the commercial channels are showing different programming on HD, we can't use "copy SD to HD" anymore.

I don't understand the "we only list HD native content" thing. Shouldn't you list everything that is showing on a channel regardless of its source/quality? That would fix all these problems. Even if it is not natively shot in HD, there are other advantages to recording the HD version (such as interlacing and screen format).

These stations (and their electronic guides) list these shows as existing, so why doesn't IceTV acknowledge their existence, instead of pretending there is nothing being shown on these channels most of the time?

It's very strange. At first it showed up, but stuff scheduled to record ABC1 would record ABC2 or SBS(!). Then it totally disappeared. The other day it came back again, and I thought it was fixed, but then it disappeared again, just as randomly as it had appeared...

ABC1 does not show up in my IceTV guide. I've re-scanned the channels, gone through the setup procedure several times, still no ABC1. This is with Elgato EyeTV.

What's weirder is that I installed this new machine in the lounge room AFTER the ABC channel renumbering, with a fresh install of EyeTV - and I'm still getting this problem, so it can't be related to having the "old" channel information.

From memory, ABC1 wasn't always missing, either. For the first week or so after the channel renumbering, I would get weird stuff happening, like a show that was scheduled to record on ABC1 would record on ABC2 or SBS(!) for some reason.

Perhaps even stranger is that ABC HDTV shows up in my guide, even though IceTV never has any data for it. But not ABC1, arguably the most important channel on the Australian TV spectrum.

Unless a separate SD to HD option was added, specifically for the SevenHD and TenHD, as suggested elsewhere.

I requested this same feature from IceTV support, and was told it "isn't possible". Which strikes me as a ridiculous excuse, because it's just software. An abstracted digital environment, which one can manipulate in any way.

There are no laws of electronics or software that prevent such a thing from being possible - so I think they meant "we couldn't be bothered implementing this feature".

IceTV have worked out a combination of ways to compile the information in order to avoid any claims of infringement.

I think that's the wrong way to go. The only way to get legal precedent is to actively infringe, and then get sued over it, and destroy them with quality legal reasoning.

Anyway, if they write their own descriptions of the shows, I don't see how there can be any possible infringement. That would be the only "creative" content that differentiates the source of the data.

I looked for "Nigella Feasts" on your guide, but couldn't find it anywhere. Search wouldn't find it. It was on at 6:30pm this evening, but the guide lists "Return of the Chef" going until 7:00pm.

So, is anybody doing anything about that ruling? Such as getting the judge drawn and quartered... I mean overturning the bad decision? Or do we just act like typical aussies and sit on our arses? These things have to be defied, as they are pure nonsense. Following foolish law is something only fools should do.

I don't see what the legal issue is. Since data such as this is not copyrightable (like recipes, album track listings or geographic information, for example), then why can't you just copy it from ebroadcast?

So, why can't we be told what the actual problem is?

Apparantly it has something vaguely to do with IceTV's "different methods" - but if these methods are failing (which they are) - then why not use the same methods that others like ebroadcast.com.au do?

If they can do it, why not IceTV? I haven't seen an up-front explanation - every mention of this topic is shrouded in mystery, like it is some sort of cloak-and-dagger thing.