IceTV Forum

IceTV Guide for IceTV enabled PVRs => SKIPPA => Topic started by: Dazza on June 19, 2015, 05:18:01 PM

Title: autoskip pricing
Post by: Dazza on June 19, 2015, 05:18:01 PM
I saw in the pre order extension for Skippa  $39 for one year of autoskip.

Can you tell me how many years of autoskip I get for my initial pre-reorder before the extension was announced

Thanks

Dazza

Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: Melashcott on June 19, 2015, 05:45:59 PM
Hi Dazza - I purchased pre release as well... There was no mention of subscriptions anywhere, so I'm assuming auto skip will cost us nothing for the life of the machine. I will certainly be kicking up a big stink if I am charged extra for something advertised as part of the machine... You know corporate affairs kind of stink. Hope that won't be needed though...
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: Leon K on June 19, 2015, 05:49:01 PM
Hey Guys,

As per our previous bi-weekly emails for the past three plus weeks, the offer was for the lifetime of the box and the first 1000 sales.  The 1000 limit was achieved and is unfortunately now closed. 

This is the next offer and still $150 below RRP but the AutoSkip feature will have a subscription after the first free year of $39/year.  This offer is for the next 500 sales.
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: Stalky on June 19, 2015, 06:13:47 PM
.

I, and 999 others, are relieved to hear that.

Thanks for the super quick reply Leon.

Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: Paul55 on June 19, 2015, 08:50:08 PM
Quote from: Leon K on June 19, 2015, 05:49:01 PM
AutoSkip feature will have a subscription after the first free year of $39/year.

I've been following the Skippa development with interest but this is the first I've heard about a subs for AutoSkip. Like some others, I assumed it was built into the firmware.
I'm wondering what expenses are incurred by IceTV to provide ongoing AutoSkip functionality (to justify the ongoing cost).
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: csutak40 on June 19, 2015, 08:57:26 PM
Quote from: Paul55 on June 19, 2015, 08:50:08 PM
Quote from: Leon K on June 19, 2015, 05:49:01 PM
AutoSkip feature will have a subscription after the first free year of $39/year.

I've been following the Skippa development with interest but this is the first I've heard about a subs for AutoSkip. Like some others, I assumed it was built into the firmware.
I'm wondering what expenses are incurred by IceTV to provide ongoing AutoSkip funcionality (to justify the ongoing cost).

I am also very surprised to hear this.  I feel it certainly should have been mentioned at the beginning.  Seems a bit underhanded to me. 

Also, as I do think that autoskip is just a gimmick I could probably live without, could one purchase one without the AutoSkip function?
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: EdQld on June 19, 2015, 09:34:26 PM
I am also pleased to hear that us early adopters will have autoskip included for the life of the Skippa box, but like others, was very surprised to hear that this feature will be subscription based!

Certainly this is the first we have heard of that and you would have to wonder how this will affect sales going forward? Especially since the release of the BW highly specked T4 with 4 Tuners
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: snuke on June 19, 2015, 10:04:22 PM
Cached version of site,  - http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://skippa.tv/
As I thought, NOTHING about a fee for AutoSkip, not even a remote vague description than none of us didn't interpret correctly.
All it says is
['"*Saving is based on 5 x standard annual IceTV subscription fees valued at $99 per year."']

Even now, the only clue to the fee is this new purple highlighted area. Nowhere else on the site does it say that AutoSkip is a fee based service.

This is extremely underhanded and was mis-leading to all those that were uncertain on getting in early. I am sure it was part of everyone's calculation.

Edit: From first email. Again NOTHING about avoiding an AutoSkip subscription fee:

(http://s14.postimg.org/xvussor3l/Skippa_May28_Advert.jpg)

Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: csutak40 on June 19, 2015, 11:09:06 PM
Yes, the more I think  about it, the more annoyed I get! 

Seems to me the goal post gets changed every 5 minutes.  Originally, we were told 4 tuners, (won't even bother mentioning the various deadlines) then it was going to cost RRP $499. (this wasn't long ago, in April http://forum.icetv.com.au/iceforum/skippa/44/new-icetv-branded-pvr/3886/msg20930#msg20930 (http://forum.icetv.com.au/iceforum/skippa/44/new-icetv-branded-pvr/3886/msg20930#msg20930)  "Skippa will be in the IceTV store in mid to late June with an RRP of $499 including an IceTV subscription for the life of the skippa box (with no time limit)"). 

The first we heard of the price having changed to $599, was when we were offered the "$200" discount.  At the same time, we were also told "No subscriptions, ever"

There is never an explanation about these changes.

Not happy, Jan!
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: SteveGee on June 19, 2015, 11:56:15 PM
Well, That sucks !

I'm sure many more of us would have pre-ordered had we of known that the Ad-Skipping function was going to be an "Optional Extra".

Shirley* you jest ??

The WHOLE PREMISE of this new device is that it skips advertisements, yet somehow you forgot to mention that this function is "optional" ?

So, regular (after release) purchasers need to purchase an Ice-TV subscription to have all the EPG recording features AND the "Ad-Skipping" subscription to skip the advertisements !!

Good luck with that !!

I'm sure the first batch would have sold in half the time had we of known about this.

SG.

*And don't call me Shirley !!!
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: Valik on June 20, 2015, 12:13:37 AM
Quote from: SteveGee on June 19, 2015, 11:56:15 PM
I'm sure many more of us would have pre-ordered had we of known that the Ad-Skipping function was going to be an "Optional Extra".

Could not agree more

Quote from: SteveGee on June 19, 2015, 11:56:15 PM
The WHOLE PREMISE of this new device is that it skips advertisements, yet somehow you forgot to mention that this function is "optional" ?

As expected this is a very sore point with everyone interested in the device.

Quote from: SteveGee on June 19, 2015, 11:56:15 PM
So, regular (after release) purchasers need to purchase an Ice-TV subscription to have all the EPG recording features AND the "Ad-Skipping" subscription to skip the advertisements !!

As far as I'm aware they only need to subscribe to the ad-skipp feature for $39 per year.

If I have a spare Skippa, can I sell it with the full functional ad-skip functionality or is it locked to my account?
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: snuke on June 20, 2015, 02:58:22 AM
Quote from: SteveGee on June 19, 2015, 11:56:15 PM
So, regular (after release) purchasers need to purchase an Ice-TV subscription to have all the EPG recording features AND the "Ad-Skipping" subscription to skip the advertisements !!

No, ICE sub is for lifetime of your Skippa.

I guess this AutoSkip sub is how they are attempting to make up for all Skippa owners now never having to pay for an ICE sub. While I can understand trying to get the regular revenue back, how this has been handled is appalling.
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: SteveGee on June 20, 2015, 08:59:46 AM
Quote from: snuke on June 20, 2015, 02:58:22 AM
Quote from: SteveGee on June 19, 2015, 11:56:15 PM
So, regular (after release) purchasers need to purchase an Ice-TV subscription to have all the EPG recording features AND the "Ad-Skipping" subscription to skip the advertisements !!

No, ICE sub is for lifetime of your Skippa.

I guess this AutoSkip sub is how they are attempting to make up for all Skippa owners now never having to pay for an ICE sub. While I can understand trying to get the regular revenue back, how this has been handled is appalling.

Are we 100% positive about that ??

Re-reading their skippa.tv web site, just as it doesn't mention an annual subscription for the SKIPPA functionality, it could also be left open that the "Lifetime" ICETV subscription is ONLY for the 1000 + 500 "pre-orders"  >:(

SG
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: Leon K on June 20, 2015, 02:48:47 PM
Hey Guys,

The Skippa has built in subscriptions so you will be able to continue to use all the features of IceTV's smart recording and custom EPG with or without the Auto-Skip subscription.

Quote from: csutak40 on June 19, 2015, 08:57:26 PM
Also, as I do think that autoskip is just a gimmick I could probably live without, could one purchase one without the AutoSkip function?

The AutoSkip works great, but if you feel you wish to do without it you can disable it on the device and switch back to using only manual chase-play.
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: Vortical on June 20, 2015, 03:22:50 PM
Leon, so what happens if I was in the 1st 1000 with the "no annual fees ever" and I decide to purchase an additional skippa at a later date? What happens with subscriptions on that box?

This sure is getting confusing.

Also I must say this ad skip subscription for the rest of units sold is a bit hard to swallow.
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: Leon K on June 20, 2015, 03:35:31 PM
Hey Vortical,

Lucky to have grabbed one of the first 1000 Skippas so no subscriptions on that box, but any subsequent purchases will be subject to the pricing at that point in time. The subscriptions for the Skippa are linked to each individual device and are independent of one another.

Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: qf8 on June 20, 2015, 04:04:31 PM
Leon

Can you please clarify the subscriptions.Is there two subscriptions needed?
1. Icetv EPG
2. Autoskip.
What is the price for each substription per year?
If you purchased in the first 1000 box pre order how long will each of the two subscriptions be free for?
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: grahford on June 20, 2015, 04:16:39 PM
I'm going to admit I'm still confused by the subscription prices.  Everything I've seen looks pretty clear, but at the same time can kind of been seen to be saying something else depending on the scenario, (first 1000, next 500, regular), and where I read the news, (email, forum, website).

As a long time IceTV subscriber I'm used to the idea of paying for regular subscriptions.  I'm just totally confused by where this device fits into your ecosystem after all the 'no annual fees', lifetime vs 5 year, first 1000, next 500, and now autoskip suddenly being a paid service?

If I've bought one of the first 1000 Skippas.  And I look after it so it's still running in 6 years time.  And it's the only device I own connected to IceTV. 
At what point do I need to to get a new icetv subscription? 
At what point do I need to get an autoskip subscription?

edit: Heh.  While I was typing, qf8 asked the same question in a much shorter format :)

Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: Biznitch on June 20, 2015, 04:37:29 PM
I was one of the "lucky" ones to pre-order within the first 1,000 SKIPPA units and whilst I am still very much looking forward to receiving my device around the end of July/start of August I was absolutely shocked to hear that the ad-skipping functionality of the SKIPPA for those units purchased from now on will be subscription based after the first year.
The timing of the additional subscription announcement is suspicious which begs the question that perhaps the sales of the unit are not doing as well as was originally forecast and therefore they needed to tack on another fee to make the costs involved in producing the software and hardware for the units more viable.
From a business perspective I completely understand this however from a consumer point of view it comes across as a deceptive. Also I think further proof that IceTV's original intention was not to have the ad-skipping technology as a paid subscription is simply the name of the device, "SKIPPA". It is kind of a hard sell for a device called "SKIPPA" to say after the first 12 months this device actually will not do what the name suggests unless an additional subscription is purchased and maintained yearly.
As I have already invested in the device I hope the SKIPPA is just a late bloomer and will sells like hot cakes once word of the quality and functionality of the unit gets out after August.
Obviously a device with a larger customer base will enable IceTV to provide frequent updates and ongoing support. However in order for this to happen I strongly believe charging customers an annual fee to actually make use of the ad-skipping technology should be scrapped and perhaps should be absorbed into the initial unit cost or IceTV subscription in general.
I sincerely wish IceTV all the best in the sales with their "SKIPPA" which is why I have expressed my concern in this post because I understand if the sales are poor then I fear my experience with the device will also suffer.
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: Leon K on June 20, 2015, 05:15:38 PM
Quote from: qf8 on June 20, 2015, 04:04:31 PM
Leon

Can you please clarify the subscriptions.Is there two subscriptions needed?
1. Icetv EPG
2. Autoskip.
What is the price for each substription per year?
If you purchased in the first 1000 box pre order how long will each of the two subscriptions be free for?

For all Skippas sold so far and including up to the first 1,500 units, the regular IceTV Subscription will never expire, not even after 5 years. It is forever.

For the first 1,000 units, the same goes for AutoSkip - it will work forever.

For units 1,001 thru to 1,500 (our 2nd offer released on Friday June 20th) AutoSkip has a 1-year subscription bundled in free. Then it costs $39 per annum. There are also monthly and lifetime subs. Pricing is to be confirmed for these two subs.

Onwards is up to us and like every other vendor, our pricing will change over time.
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: csutak40 on June 20, 2015, 05:54:42 PM
Quote from: Leon K on June 20, 2015, 02:48:47 PM
Hey Guys,

The Skippa has built in 5 Year / Lifetime subscriptions so you will be able to continue to use all the features of IceTV's smart recording and custom EPG with or without the Auto-Skip subscription.
So, whereas previously we were told that, for the Skippa, "lifetime" means just that, not 5 years "No subscriptions, ever", that too has now been changed?


Quote from: Leon K on June 20, 2015, 02:48:47 PMThe Auto-Skip works great, but if you feel you wish to do without it you can disable it on the device and switch back to using only manual chase-play.
So, to be clear.  If I purchase a Skippa when it goes on sale for $599, I  will have to disable one of its core (and highly advertised) functions, unless I cough up  another $39 p/a?
Can you please point me to the part when it was mentioned in the original ad, (or even the current ad, that starts with "NO MORE ADS") that the fabulous "AutoSkip" is an optional extra?
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: Leon K on June 20, 2015, 06:15:06 PM
Hi csutak40,

Please note that the Skippas advertised are both Pre-Order specials.

As per my post above - The Skippa that has been advertised, ie. the first 1,000, has come with eternal subscriptions. Both IceTV and AutoSkip.

The presently advertised Skippa, ie. units 1,001-1,500 comes with an eternal IceTV sub and a 1-year bundled AutoSkip sub.

Regarding any future offers, as noted, we are like every other vendor, and our pricing is subject to change over time.

Quote from: csutak40 on June 20, 2015, 05:54:42 PM
So, whereas previously we were told that, for the Skippa, "lifetime" means just that, not 5 years "No subscriptions, ever", that too has now been changed?

No it hasn't changed - I have updated my previous post, this post is now current.
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: qf8 on June 20, 2015, 07:32:34 PM
Thanks Leon

Its all very clear now. :)
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: Rat on June 20, 2015, 09:29:51 PM
Wow.......that didn't go well. ...

I really can't see many people paying $599 for a PVR and then paying an annual subscription fee to skip ads. They seem to not be listening to all the posts were people are underwhelmed by auto ad skipping and consider it a non essential feature.

The general public might think differently, but I doubt it.

Anyway it does show that they are confident that the feature works well. So I hope people do pick it up so that I can continue to enjoy it for free.

Bring on the bug reporting threads :)
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: snuke on June 21, 2015, 12:28:33 AM
Quote from: Leon K on June 20, 2015, 06:15:06 PMAs per my post above - The Skippa that has been advertised, ie. the first 1,000, has come with eternal subscriptions. Both IceTV and AutoSkip.

No, no it wasn't and this is what is off putting to everyone. The first lot of emails, press details and your website mentioned NOTHING of a sub fee for AutoSkip. Not once did it mention that the first 1,000 had an eternal sub to AutoSkip. A Sub to AutoSkip has never ben mentioned until the email and website update for this second round of 500 units. Please do not make such mis-leading comments, they are outright wrong.

QuoteRegarding any future offers, as noted, we are like every other vendor, and our pricing is subject to change over time.

It is your right to change pricing over time, but so far ICE TV has mis-lead consumers as to what to expect the cost of owning this unit is. I believe this is what is commonly referred to as false advertising. Not advertising a fee is the same as advertising the wrong fee. This is the type of crap that gets some consumers so pissy they file complaints with the ACCC. ICE need to rectify this and clarify the fee structure very clearly on their site to stop mis-leading consumers about what the cost of ownership is.
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: csutak40 on June 21, 2015, 02:34:41 AM
Quote from: Leon K on June 20, 2015, 06:15:06 PM


As per my post above - The Skippa that has been advertised, ie. the first 1,000, has come with eternal subscriptions. Both IceTV and AutoSkip.


Sorry Leon, but I still say that it should have been mentioned from the  get-go that the AutoSkip will be an optional extra.  The only "subscription" ever mentioned until now was the IceTV subscription

And I still have to reiterate, that I don't see  how a product called "Skippa", that is being advertised (even now) as "No more ads" and "SKIPPA is the first TV recorder in Australia to feature AUTOMATIC ad-skip technology" can then turn around and (belatedly) add a small-print that all of that is optional extra.

In fact, looking at your current ad, the subscription still isn't mentioned, except for the mention of it on the pre-order bit "One year auto-skip included, value $39"   It then goes on to list all the features, the first of which is the AutoSkip, no mention of it being an optional extra.

It is like going to a steakhouse, reading the menu, where they gush about how they have the best steak in town, ordering steak and chips and receiving a plate of chips, no steak. When complaining, get told that it is an optional extra, unless it was pre-ordered.  Having another look at the menu, getting out the magnifying glass, we discover that it does say that at the bottom of the menu in tiny print, however no one mentioned that when we were ordering our steak.

Would you think that was fair trading on part of the steak house?
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: Rat on June 21, 2015, 10:02:22 AM
No it's not like the steak analogy as there was no fine print. I get the feeling they didn't tell us earlier as they are making it up as they go, same goes for the RRP of the unit.
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: qf8 on June 21, 2015, 12:18:47 PM
I dont think there is anything misleading.
If you have orded a unit under the first 1000 group youll get everything you paid for.
The offer for the next 500 units is clear.
You are only whinging now because you thought you would play it safe and wait.
Well No risk equals No reward.
If i were you id stop whinging and place an order before the price rises again.

Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: IanL-S on June 21, 2015, 12:43:03 PM
Another thing to remember is that the Skippa will be as good as other PVRs for playback as it has customisable manual skip and, presumably fast-forward and fast-rewind.

To me the AutoSkipping is not of all that much importance.

Ian
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: Rat on June 21, 2015, 12:57:55 PM
For those who missed out I predict that Skippa with be on Special for $500 not long after general release and we have all the bugs worked out.

One thing I can't help but think about the auto ad skip is I hope it doesn't become too popular. If it does then the TV stations will probably fight back with scrolling ticker ads during the show and picture in picture ads during the show. Not that it would really bother me as I hardly watch any commercial station rubbish already.
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: DaveD on June 21, 2015, 02:20:47 PM
This unit is starting to look less and less desirable.
I think I'll stick to my Toppy 2400s for the moment.
Since the Skippa's ad-skipping 'feature' is now an optional extra, there doesn't seem to be much else in it for me.

The tardy and unexpected mention of a subscription for ad-skipping is poor form and may put a few, if not many, potential customers offside. It has certainly put me off.

I rarely have a conflict with 2 tuners but I have a second 2400 in the bedroom to take care of that so the Skippa's third tuner, while desirable, is not a must for me at the moment.
I basically use my units to record and play-back shows.  I sometimes watch a show in the lounge room which has been recorded on the bedroom unit and vice versa.
So any other new 'features' that my Toppy does not have may be of use to other customers but not me.

Even if the ad-skipping was free it sounds like more trouble than it is worth.
A 1 hour program will require an extra 1 hour to remove the ads (from the website...FAQ: A. AutoSkip takes about the same time as the length of a recording.) and it seems (from forum responses) that the unit needs to communicate over the internet to perform this task!
So neither the hardware or on-board software can perform this task independently.   Hardly a feature then!


{sarcasm on}
Maybe there is a battery of cheap overseas operators hammering away at keyboards to create Skippa edit points?
Is there a subscription to use the third tuner.  Just checking!!!
{sarcasm off}
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: Paul55 on June 21, 2015, 02:53:13 PM
Quote from: qf8 on June 21, 2015, 12:18:47 PM
You are only whinging now because you thought you would play it safe and wait.
Well No risk equals No reward.
If i were you id stop whinging and place an order before the price rises again.

I wouldn't be so smug if I were you. If the Skippa fails to appeal to the mass market (because of the 'strange' late inclusion of a sub for skipping the ads - or any other reasons that may arise), the early adapters will the ones being burnt.
PVR buyers tend to be reasonably well informed  about 'problem' machines. Think back to the 'Freeview' FV-L1 model Beyonwiz - it quickly became a hated device and was a real millstone for Beyonwiz for a long time. The only way they were able to get rid of the last batch was to recall them from retailers and re-flash the firmware to make them into a proper (non-Freeview) PVR. They ended up selling them for $80.
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: IanL-S on June 21, 2015, 03:39:26 PM
Quote from: Rat on June 21, 2015, 12:57:55 PM
For those who missed out I predict that Skippa with be on Special for $500 not long after general release and we have all the bugs worked out.

One thing I can't help but think about the auto ad skip is I hope it doesn't become too popular. If it does then the TV stations will probably fight back with scrolling ticker ads during the show and picture in picture ads during the show. Not that it would really bother me as I hardly watch any commercial station rubbish already.

My understanding that only promotions for own shows can be on the screen when a program is being shown - no third party advertising. There may be an exception for live sport coverage. However, the ineffectual regulator of TV stations is unlikely to do anything to a proprietor who tries to bend the current regulations. (Bad case of regulatory capture.)

Ian
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: csutak40 on June 21, 2015, 04:23:31 PM
Quote from: qf8 on June 21, 2015, 12:18:47 PM
I dont think there is anything misleading.
If you have orded a unit under the first 1000 group youll get everything you paid for.
The offer for the next 500 units is clear.
You are only whinging now because you thought you would play it safe and wait.
Well No risk equals No reward.
If i were you id stop whinging and place an order before the price rises again.
No, the first ad did not mention that the autoskip is part of the special offer  (as it proclaimed loudly for the IceTV subscription)  The fact that  it wasn't built into the unit out of the  box wasn't mentioned until this ad.
And no, I am "whinging" because I don't like false advertising, which is what this was, and I would get a bad taste in my mouth, even if I had purchased one already, because I do agree that they  are making  it up as they go, which does not fill me with confidence.
If anything, I am now glad I hadn't jumped in to buy a pig in a poke and yes, I was about to do so.
This may not be a big investment for some of you, but  it is for me
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: csutak40 on June 21, 2015, 04:24:43 PM
Quote from: IanL-S on June 21, 2015, 12:43:03 PM

To me the AutoSkipping is not of all that much importance.


I agree, it is the principle of the thing that upsets me
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: juergen on June 21, 2015, 07:01:30 PM
I was thinking about buying a Skippa so weighed up what was offered at the time against what it would cost me ($399). That didn't work for me so I decided against it.

Now that the initial 1,000 have been sold, there is a new offering that includes a slightly different product (autoskip by subscription) and a new price. So I will consider it again and work out if it is worth it to me. Nobody is forcing me so I don't see what the problem is.

Would anyone who held off buying from the first batch be interested in paying $599 for a Skippa with a lifetime subscription to auto-skip? That is as close as we came to an advertised price for sets after the first 1,000.
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: Likkie on June 22, 2015, 08:39:51 AM
I agree that this misinformation stinks but its not really false advertising.  No-one was mislead into paying more for something than they should have.

Even if the fact that this feature was to be subscription based was advertised early on, there were still only 1000 units with the free sub.

I'm pretty happy because I was an early adopter purchased one of the 1000 and the fact they they are now going to be charging for the ad-skip service fills me with confidence.  If they think they can charge a subscription for this feature then it must work pretty well.

I assumed that the Skippa would have some sort of analysis software built-in that identified and marked ads for skipping.  I used to have software for EyeTV which did that and it worked OK most of the time but not great and it was slow. 

Since IceTV are planning on charging a subscription I can only assume that the Skippa will be like the Dish Hopper from the US which has the timings of the ads downloaded after the shows have aired allowing them to skipped.  Potentially much more accurate.

Also if it were just a feature built into the unit, I think they would have trouble justifying charging a fee to turn of a feature and then charging a subscription fee to not turn it off (which seems like extortion to me).
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: FMB on June 22, 2015, 10:33:38 AM
I do believe that this is misleading. Not illegal, but certainly misleading. It certainly doesn't instill much confidence. I suspect that, as others have said, IceTV are making this up as they go along. Had they always intended to offer AutoSkip as a subscription from the beginning, it would have been mentioned in the original pre-order offer. Clearly you would include this additional saving as further incentive to buy in the pre-order period.

It also raises another question. IceTV said they are going to sell these units through retail outlets. Really? Consider the following scenario:

Salesperson: We have these six PVR's which all use the FTA EPG and they're all similarly priced. Then we have Skippa which is also around the same prices, but it has a better EPG and ad skipping technology.
Customer: Wow, that's awesome. I hate ads. I'll take that one.
Salesperson: Great. That will be $X. Oh, and after a year is up, you'll also have to pay $99 per year for the EPG and you'll also have to pay $39 per year for the ad skip technology.
Customer: Show me the other ones again.

I'm pretty sure that scenario will play out numerous times across the country. You average FTA viewer likes the 'F' part of FTA and will baulk at paying for an EPG and almost certainly draw a line at paying for ad skipping technology, when they've been hitting the fast forward button for years.
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: SpocksBeer on June 22, 2015, 10:54:59 AM
Another "what the hell, Ice?" voice here.

I've plonked down cash for the pre-order (first 1000), but I'm struggling to understand the long-term business model here.  If you're charging an annual fee to basically unlock a firmware feature, people are (rightly so, IMO) going to expect that it works pretty well perfectly almost all the time.  What I've read (read: the information you've released) about AutoSkip indicates it's a best effort scan of recorded material that attempts to detect ads (difficult in Australia because we seem to lack any embedded broadcast markers for ad content).  I should add, I'm fine with this while it remains an included, perpetual, feature of the product.

So either you're offering a much better service than "best effort" for $40 a year, or you're going to charge a perpetual fee for a function the box is designed to do the best it can, regardless of fee.  People might support the former if it's good enough, but will not back the latter.

Either way, you need to explain what's going on here.  I don't want to be left with a dud PVR that has no market base and minimal support due to a nonsensical business model.
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: Paul1000 on June 23, 2015, 10:02:45 PM
Well, the Skippa will be exposed to the market in due course, and it will either be a good value proposition for buyers or it won't. And IceTV will sell units at the price they set or they won't. And if they don't they'll drop the price or stop selling the units. I guess they reason that $39pa for Autoskip is a reasonable trade for not having to pay for IceTV Sub. Today and forever we all do the maths to make our choices. After all, IceTV has the right to charge anything they like. Does anyone else do Autoskip?  Ciao. Paul
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: Rat on June 24, 2015, 09:12:38 AM
Some members here feel the need to remind us that IceTV can do whatever they like in terms of pricing and marketing (as if we didn't realise that) with seemingly the underlying attitude that people should not complain and should just let the market decide, I think you are missing the value of having a forum such as this, and I wonder if IceTV are missing that point also.

What we have here is people willing to spend their time to give instant feedback before the product goes to market, what an opportunity.

It seems that early on IceTV wanted to utilize that opportunity by asking for suggestions for their upcoming product, but somewhere along the line they decided to move away from that concept and just do their own thing. I can see many examples lately where perhaps that decision has not worked out as well as it could have for them. The EPG screenshot thread being just one of them, rather than asking what people wanted from the EPG and getting free feedback from experienced PVR users they just picked one and have found that from feedback now a percentage of people would prefer a different one. Personally I hope they take this on board and give us an option of two or three EPGs to select as we see fit, and due to this forum that may just happen.

They don't seem to be thanking anyone for their constructive criticism (again another missed opportunity) but I do hope they are busily collating all feedback behind the scenes and doing their best to make Skippa meet everyone's needs and expectations.

Criticism is sometimes more valuable than praise, something that the fanboi's don't understand, if we are to be dissuaded from criticising them there is no point in having this forum at all really.
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: injidup on June 24, 2015, 11:48:58 AM
Quote from: Rat on June 21, 2015, 12:57:55 PM
For those who missed out I predict that Skippa with be on Special for $500 not long after general release and we have all the bugs worked out.

One thing I can't help but think about the auto ad skip is I hope it doesn't become too popular. If it does then the TV stations will probably fight back with scrolling ticker ads during the show and picture in picture ads during the show. Not that it would really bother me as I hardly watch any commercial station rubbish already.

They already have banner ads. (If you were being sarcastic it was wasted on me).
And the percentage of viewers that will have an IceTv box will be tiny compared to the rest of the viewing public so hardly of great importance. Unless other companies start offering a similar service.
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: Rat on June 24, 2015, 12:23:52 PM
No I really wasn't being sarcastic, I'm out of the loop with what is happening on commercial TV, about the only show I watch that is aired on local commercial TV is Modern Family and the episodes I watch are up to date and have no ads at all, it's like magic ;)

I only use our PVR to record SBS and ABC....but my wife and son watch and record some commercial TV so they will be testing the auto skip feature here. I use our PVR to stream media from our PC so I'm more interested to see what I think of Plex + Skippa V's Beyonwiz + FTP

Yeah you are right about the percentage of people using autoskip being small....it never ceases to amaze me that even though I have been spruiking the benefits of PVRs for what seems like a decade I think only a small percentage of people I know use one and most just watch live FTA packed with ads WTF? why? crazy stuff.

Even so I think the stations will be in a panic about the potential.......perhaps they could use scare tactic ads to stop people skipping? "You wouldn't kill a puppy.....so why would you skip ads?" ;D
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: nis200sx on June 28, 2015, 07:51:04 PM
Quote from: csutak40 on June 21, 2015, 04:23:31 PM
No, the first ad did not mention that the autoskip is part of the special offer  (as it proclaimed loudly for the IceTV subscription)  The fact that  it wasn't built into the unit out of the  box wasn't mentioned until this ad.
And no, I am "whinging" because I don't like false advertising, which is what this was, and I would get a bad taste in my mouth, even if I had purchased one already, because I do agree that they  are making  it up as they go, which does not fill me with confidence.

Actually it was clear to those who read between the lines that the pre-order was a bargain. There were 3 balloons indicating 3 benefits of the initial 'pre-order offer':
The red and green balloons suggested (to me) that the 'Free IceTV" and "No Annual Fees - ever" were 2 separate benefits of the pre-order offer and were subject to change.

The 'pre-order extension offer' has purple and green balloons stating:
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: nis200sx on June 28, 2015, 07:58:55 PM
Quote from: Rat on June 20, 2015, 09:29:51 PM
Wow.......that didn't go well. ...

I'm confused Rat. You post comments sounding like you are out to sabotage skippa... but then you add a comment suggesting you actually ordered your own skippa (or maybe the company you work for ordered the skippa...)
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: Rat on June 28, 2015, 09:13:09 PM
I'm not out to sabotage, I do hope I am happy with my Skippa purchase, but I am not very impressed with the way marketing and information has been handled or feedback to posts here. Nearly everytime staff post people here are disappointed or annoyed by what they have said, they don't need me to sabotage they are doing a fine job themselves.

That said, I know we are quite a difficult bunch to impress and for every unhappy post there could be a few who are happy and don't bother posting.

Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: csutak40 on June 29, 2015, 02:13:54 PM
Quote from: nis200sx on June 28, 2015, 07:51:04 PM
Quote from: csutak40 on June 21, 2015, 04:23:31 PM
No, the first ad did not mention that the autoskip is part of the special offer  (as it proclaimed loudly for the IceTV subscription)  The fact that  it wasn't built into the unit out of the  box wasn't mentioned until this ad.
And no, I am "whinging" because I don't like false advertising, which is what this was, and I would get a bad taste in my mouth, even if I had purchased one already, because I do agree that they  are making  it up as they go, which does not fill me with confidence.

Actually it was clear to those who read between the lines that the pre-order was a bargain. There were 3 balloons indicating 3 benefits of the initial 'pre-order offer':

  • Red outline: Free IceTV for the life of your SKIPPA.
  • Green outline: No Annual Fees - ever!
  • Solid Blue: $399 $599 RRP inc. GST Save $200
The red and green balloons suggested (to me) that the 'Free IceTV" and "No Annual Fees - ever" were 2 separate benefits of the pre-order offer and were subject to change.

The 'pre-order extension offer' has purple and green balloons stating:

  • Purple outline: 1 year AutoSkip Included Valued at $39
  • Green outline: Free IceTV for the life of your SKIPPA.
  • The price isn't in a balloon this time: $449 RRP $599 inc. GST Save $150

Why does one need a university degree in how to read between the lines, when dealing with a supposedly  trustworthy company? 

Sure, you can interpret their ad like that, especially with the wisdom of hindsight (ignoring the fact that just a week or so before the ad appeared, they were saying that the Skippa will cost $499, not $599 - but no doubt, looking at that with a magnifying glass, there is a way of  interpreting that as well) but, silly me, I didn't think I need to look for hidden meanings when reading an ad from IceTV, a company I've always trusted.

I suppose, that is the reason why I am so upset.  I expected more from IceTV

And I still say, that a PVR that is called "Skippa" which refers to the fact that it skips ads as its main claim, should actually do that, without extra cost
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: snuke on July 02, 2015, 11:55:25 AM
Quote from: nis200sx on June 28, 2015, 07:51:04 PM
Quote from: csutak40 on June 21, 2015, 04:23:31 PM
No, the first ad did not mention that the autoskip is part of the special offer  (as it proclaimed loudly for the IceTV subscription)  The fact that  it wasn't built into the unit out of the  box wasn't mentioned until this ad.
And no, I am "whinging" because I don't like false advertising, which is what this was, and I would get a bad taste in my mouth, even if I had purchased one already, because I do agree that they  are making  it up as they go, which does not fill me with confidence.

Actually it was clear to those who read between the lines that the pre-order was a bargain. There were 3 balloons indicating 3 benefits of the initial 'pre-order offer':

  • Red outline: Free IceTV for the life of your SKIPPA.
  • Green outline: No Annual Fees - ever!
  • Solid Blue: $399 $599 RRP inc. GST Save $200
The red and green balloons suggested (to me) that the 'Free IceTV" and "No Annual Fees - ever" were 2 separate benefits of the pre-order offer and were subject to change.


Contextually that makes no sense. As you have said, you would have to read between the lines, or as I would put it, ignore the English language.
Point Two can only be read as a reference to point One.
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: snuke on July 02, 2015, 06:26:37 PM
For those not watching the pre-order thread, here is more salt to rub into the wounds of horrid communication.

(http://i.imgur.com/00PLMEZ.png)
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: bodogbodog on July 02, 2015, 06:36:40 PM
Quote from: snuke on July 02, 2015, 06:26:37 PM
For those not watching the pre-order thread, here is more salt to rub into the wounds of horrid communication.
Whats your point? - They made a series of offers and have now made another offer - with a deadline. They're trying to encourage people to place an order - a series of offers with different terms is not surprising
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: warkus on July 02, 2015, 06:58:07 PM
And more importantly, it's highly likely this offer has been brought about by all the complaining on here and other forums by a specific few people who very much seem like spoilt children because they didn't take up the initial offer, whether that's the reason for all the posts or not, it certainly presents like that, seriously I think it needs to be toned down.

The way I see it is they can't win either way, people not happy with their offer and complaining so they put up a new one, clear, easy to understand and straight forward. And still they cop it.

I can't understand it myself, it was clear to me in the original email, yes admittedly not as clear as it could have been but still clear enough, that's why I took the risk and purchased, if you didn't well you can't hold ice responsible for that. How they market the product is up to them, yes their wording has been poor in several examples but intentionally misleading it isn't...

Can we all just move on now please, and focus on the product itself and how good or not good it is when it comes out. Nobody is forcing you to purchase it so if your that unhappy, go an purchase a beyonwiz T3 or T4, then you'll really have something to complain about...

Mark


Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: snuke on July 02, 2015, 10:57:44 PM
Yeah, I am sure all those that paid $449 last week are just ecstatic that they have the same deal for $399.
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: warkus on July 02, 2015, 10:59:55 PM
Presumably nobody did I dare say, another reason probably why they have changed it again and made it more clear to all who buy...

Mark
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: Rat on July 03, 2015, 08:06:04 AM
Warkus I can see your point...but I can also see that all the negativity has been generated by IceTV comments (or lack of them) and haphazard promotion style, they only have themselves to blame.

Thier reaction to all this negativity is one again typical of what we have come to expect from them  ::)

Quote IceTV email

"The launch of SKIPPA has generated terrific feedback from our customers"

Now if we take that at face value then I really can't see how that can be true, between here and Whirlpool customers are disgruntled, disappointed and anxious about what the product will be like, hardly what I would call terrific feedback.

But if we read between the lines and check the online dictionary meaning of "terrific" we find that yes that is an apt description as terrific doesn't actually mean good or positive at all.

terrific
təˈrɪfɪk/Submit
adjective
1. of great size, amount, or intensity.
"there was a terrific bang"

2. archaic causing terror.
"his body presented a terrific emblem of death"

So yep, the feedback has been terrific.
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: warkus on July 03, 2015, 08:47:15 AM
Let it go, move on, find another avenue for your frustration on another forum, this ones been done to death and honestly, I cannot believe you have stooped to the level of commenting on their advertising material.

Can't fault the product description this time so let's look at other wording, it's pathetic...and freakin annoying to have to read, not to mention it's pretty dam low.

Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: injidup on July 03, 2015, 10:30:30 AM
I'm really looking forward to the comments when the SKIPPA finally gets into people's homes!
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: Leon K on July 03, 2015, 12:36:26 PM
Quote from: snuke on July 02, 2015, 10:57:44 PM
Yeah, I am sure all those that paid $449 last week are just ecstatic that they have the same deal for $399.

We have already contacted these customers and have upgraded them.
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: csutak40 on August 18, 2015, 03:37:57 AM
Quote from: Likkie on June 22, 2015, 08:39:51 AM
Also if it were just a feature built into the unit, I think they would have trouble justifying charging a fee to turn of a feature and then charging a subscription fee to not turn it off (which seems like extortion to me).

I have been reading some of the older posts, searching for something in particular.  Found some interesting things on other subjects as well.  For instance, re your comment above:

Since then, they have admitted that is exactly what they are doing –"AutoSkip continues to process all recordings with or without an active subscription. This means that once a subscription has been renewed, all processed recordings can immediately be played back without ads." http://forum.icetv.com.au/iceforum/skippa/44/skippa-pre-order/4483/msg21709;topicseen#msg21709 (http://forum.icetv.com.au/iceforum/skippa/44/skippa-pre-order/4483/msg21709;topicseen#msg21709)

So, the subscription is a payment for them not to turn an inbuilt feature off.
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: Likkie on August 20, 2015, 03:43:08 PM
Quote from: csutak40 on August 18, 2015, 03:37:57 AM
Quote from: Likkie on June 22, 2015, 08:39:51 AM
Also if it were just a feature built into the unit, I think they would have trouble justifying charging a fee to turn of a feature and then charging a subscription fee to not turn it off (which seems like extortion to me).

So, the subscription is a payment for them not to turn an inbuilt feature off.


As I'd said, this doesn't affect me as I got the early offer with lifetime ad-skip. 

From my point of view the subscription thing just doesn't sit right though.  You're effectively paying them a ransom to not disable a feature on your own equipment.

Isn't that like what those ransom-ware scammers do? Pay up and we'll unlock your PC ;)
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: FMB on August 20, 2015, 03:52:01 PM
I suspect you're probably correct. The way I see it, they developed this functionality and built it into the device and then someone (probably in management) pointed out that IceTV is a subscription company and they should find a way to monetize the ad skip feature. That resulted in a firmware update which contacts the mothership each day to confirm a paid up subscription.

I'm all for companies selling products to make a profit, but this certainly appears as nothing more than a money-grab. Once the dust settles and the Skippa hits retail shelves, your average buyer won't be aware of what's gone on before. For those of us who followed the development, it doesn't leave one with much confidence in the company.

For the record, I pre-ordered a Skippa on day one and will get a lifetime subscription.
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: Mike7 on September 15, 2015, 08:17:24 AM
I bought assuming free ice for life. Ice was and is a multi unit subscription from my understanding when I first subscribed. Hence I figured buying ice for life plus getting a 4 channel recorder was a good buy. Since then July has passed I have had another subscription charge taken out for ice for my top field, I have had no unit delivered even though I am in the first 1000, I have has very limited communication from ice updating.

If I bought ice for life with the unit why wait until you send it late before applying it, or is ice for life now limited to one unit, which was not explained or outlined in the terms I bought on.
Is an ice subscription per unit now?

I saw no annual fee for skipper function. Have the terms changed? when I had money taken out to buy this I understand that to be a contract. Somehow I am hearing of a 3 channel unit now not 4 as per my purchase agreement, I have not had any info from ice except a general late delivery email which keep getting extended. Am I getting what I paid for and therefore contracted to which is what was advertised for sale?

Not happy Mike now........
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: warkus on September 15, 2015, 09:26:34 AM
If you were indeed in the first 1000, you do have lifetime ad skip and lifetime ICETV FOR THAT UNIT, stressing again that it is life for THAT UNIT only, and is linked to the unit itself for the LIFE OF THAT UNIT.

I think you have interpreted it incorrectly.

It isn't LIFE ICETV... It's the use of ICETV on the SKIPPA for the life of the unit itself.

If you have a standalone subscription of ICETV, that IS INDEPENDENT to the SKIPPA. ICETV on the SKIPPA isn't a subscription, it's just always there for your SKIPPA whilst it's alive and working, linked to the unit itself as mentioned above.

If you still have other units in your household that you intend to use ICETV on, you will need to maintain the separate ICETV subscription. If you don't then ring support and ask them to cancel it and refund your standalone sub that just renewed, but remember the SKIPPA ICETV cannot be used with any other device in your household.

Mark
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: warkus on September 15, 2015, 09:31:07 AM
Also, the SKIPPA - and I'm not talking about previous comments to this unit, or previous discussions about an ICETV device or ICECUBE or anything else - I'm talking the SKIPPA - has always been a 3 dedicated tuner PVR capable of recording 6 shows at once.

It was clearly stated at the time you ordered it so it is not ICETV that got this incorrect, sadly it is you.

Go back and look at the promotion material.

Way back before SKIPPA was released, there was talk from ICETV of a 4 tuner PVR, but it nev eventuated. The SKIPPs has always been advertised as 3 tuners.

Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: warkus on September 17, 2015, 11:34:08 PM
The comments above don't give rise to supporting or not supporting ICETV, I simply clarified the ops understanding of what was on offer for sale. It's also not in relation to the delivery of the device, that's why I commented. Anything to do with delivery, I'm not interested in commenting on any more, thus why I have tried to stay out of most of the pre delivery discussions, lately...

How you feel about ICETV is your choice but DO NOT drag me into it, I'm not interested in being involved in these discussions OR being dragged into them any more.


Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: IanL-S on September 18, 2015, 07:37:30 AM
I am with warkus; I cannot see any relationship between the issues raised in this thread and the ongoing movable feast that is the delivery of Skippa to those who have paid for them.

Ian
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: Pursya on October 02, 2015, 08:31:33 PM
Well, I bought Skippa father an email that mentioned lifetime subs for the first 1000 orders.
Never was told if my order was not in the first 1000, so assumed all was good.
If I am charged, or expected to pay, for a service I have ordered off the back of an email then I will be off to consumer affairs in minutes.
They have had my money for months without fulfilling their promise of delivery. Ad now after reading this forum it appears the machine is not fulfilling the promise of ad skipping. Well hit and miss.
And now there seems to be confusion about what I have paid for?
There are laws that protect us in Australia.
Thankfully,
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: warkus on October 02, 2015, 08:52:04 PM
Don't start beating on about your laws and stuff here, stick to the topic at hand and take that side of it up with IceTV directly, this isn't the place to go on about consumer laws.

If you purchased a unit in the first 1000, you will have paid $399 for it and you will not be charged anything beyond that for any subscriptions.

As for ad skip, it works very well as far as I'm concerned, I'm more than happy with it, I don't find it hit and miss at all. It's not perfect but it's pretty damm impressive as far as I'm concerned.


Mark
Title: Re: autoskip pricing
Post by: Pursya on October 02, 2015, 09:20:58 PM
Sorry mate.
Didn't know that someone appointed you GOD.
I bow to your awesomeness.