Author Topic: Guide updates  (Read 4162 times)

Offline marcusstringer

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Guide updates
« on: August 17, 2010, 06:40:27 PM »
Tonight, I have set to record via Interactive today to record "Big Chef takes on Little Chef" ABC1 tonight at 6.00-7.00
Instead Australia Votes is on...

My guide still states Big Chef takes on Little Chef

The interactive Guide is correct.

My question is when did this change?

And

Can you force a guide update when you change guide listings?
Marcus
Twitter: @MarcusStringer
www.midlandtypsetters.com.au

Offline prl

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Re: Guide updates
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2010, 07:14:40 PM »
...
Can you force a guide update when you change guide listings?
No, the guide is "pulled" from the recorder.
Peter
Beyonwiz T4 in-use
Beyonwiz T2, T3 & T4 for testing

Offline marcusstringer

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Re: Guide updates
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2010, 07:29:30 PM »
No, the guide is "pulled" from the recorder.

To which it needs to "Push" after any guide change

Offline prl

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Re: Guide updates
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2010, 10:26:26 PM »
No, the guide is "pulled" from the recorder.

To which it needs to "Push" after any guide change
No, the contact is always from the recorder. The IceTV server never initiates contact with the recorder. When the recorder makes contact, it gets the latest EPG updates. The protocol isn't designed to have the server push data, as far as I know.

Offline marcusstringer

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Re: Guide updates
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2010, 07:49:08 AM »
No, the contact is always from the recorder. The IceTV server never initiates contact with the recorder. When the recorder makes contact, it gets the latest EPG updates. The protocol isn't designed to have the server push data, as far as I know.

Yeah, I get that... but what needs to happen is that instead of waiting for the guide to do its scheduled update at 1.00pm (or whenever), which is fine for if there isn't any changes, to once the IceTV team make late lineup adjustments to the guide (change made at 1.30pm), they need to "push" the changes through instead of waiting until my MCE machine requests an update again at 1.00pm the following day.

Offline prl

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Re: Guide updates
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2010, 03:44:26 PM »
No, the contact is always from the recorder. The IceTV server never initiates contact with the recorder. When the recorder makes contact, it gets the latest EPG updates. The protocol isn't designed to have the server push data, as far as I know.

Yeah, I get that... but what needs to happen is that instead of waiting for the guide to do its scheduled update at 1.00pm (or whenever), which is fine for if there isn't any changes, to once the IceTV team make late lineup adjustments to the guide (change made at 1.30pm), they need to "push" the changes through instead of waiting until my MCE machine requests an update again at 1.00pm the following day.

Sorry, it doesn't sound like you do get it. The IceTV protocol has no way of pushing data. At all. For most people, it doesn't even know for sure what your network-facing IP address is. It has to wait for the recorder to contact it. If the recorder contacts it before its time is due, the contact will be refused. That latter one could be relaxed, but it may lead to the kind of problems that the update frequency restriction is meant to avoid.

Offline marcusstringer

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Re: Guide updates
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2010, 03:53:11 PM »
Yeah ok...but then how does it know if I set a last minutes record on my iPhone to set the record?

Or does it wait until the scheduled updated, the next day?

Offline prl

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Re: Guide updates
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2010, 05:44:18 PM »
Yeah ok...but then how does it know if I set a last minutes record on my iPhone to set the record?

Or does it wait until the scheduled updated, the next day?
It waits for the next contact from the recorder. I don't know the details for MCE, but on Beyonwiz, it attempts to connect at startup. If that attempt is sooner than the server has allowed it, the connection is refused. If not, it updates (there are separate minimum fetch times for the EPG and timers; 60 and 30 minutes respectively is normal on the Beyonwiz).

On each connection attempt, whether successful or not, the server tells the Beyonwiz how long it needs to wait before a connection will be allowed. That time can be extended by refusing the connection even wen the Beyonwiz has waited the time it was last told.

Once it's running, the Beyonwiz just waits the time it's been told for the EPG and recordings, and then tries to connect, polling for updates for as long as it's running.

Offline marcusstringer

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Re: Guide updates
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2010, 06:50:24 PM »
It waits for the next contact from the recorder. I don't know the details for MCE, but on Beyonwiz, it attempts to connect at startup. If that attempt is sooner than the server has allowed it, the connection is refused. If not, it updates (there are separate minimum fetch times for the EPG and timers; 60 and 30 minutes respectively is normal on the Beyonwiz).

So (and just so I'm clear here, and not meaning to sound ignorant) according to http://www.icetv.com.au/cgi-bin/websupport.cgi?op=show_faq&faq_id=115&faq_cat_id=23

Quote
Most devices that support IceTV Interactive get their update timing from the IceTV server, which is about 30 minutes unless the IceTV server is under heavy load. So if you schedule something to record it'll normally happen within the next 30 minutes, maybe sooner.

So when I input a show to record via my iPhone. I wait 30 minutes for the IceTV server to "PUSH" the updated information to my MCE machine.

Which takes me back to my original question...If they can do this then why can't they force a "push" in the same manner when they make last minute program guide changes...

sorry if I'm sounding like broken record, just trying to understand the process... as it's obviously separate to simply fetching the guide every day at 3.00pm.

Offline prl

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Re: Guide updates
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2010, 11:38:40 PM »
...
So (and just so I'm clear here, and not meaning to sound ignorant) according to http://www.icetv.com.au/cgi-bin/websupport.cgi?op=show_faq&faq_id=115&faq_cat_id=23

Quote
Most devices that support IceTV Interactive get their update timing from the IceTV server, which is about 30 minutes unless the IceTV server is under heavy load. So if you schedule something to record it'll normally happen within the next 30 minutes, maybe sooner.

So when I input a show to record via my iPhone. I wait 30 minutes for the IceTV server to "PUSH" the updated information to my MCE machine.

Which takes me back to my original question...If they can do this then why can't they force a "push" in the same manner when they make last minute program guide changes...

sorry if I'm sounding like broken record, just trying to understand the process... as it's obviously separate to simply fetching the guide every day at 3.00pm.
IceTV NEVER PUSHES to a recorder. Never. Ever. How many times do I have to repeat this?

As I've already explained, when it's running, a recorder normally contacts the IceTV server every 30 minutes to ask it for timer updates. IceTV never pushes timer (or EPG updates) to a recorder. Never. Ever. The "up to thirty minutes" is the time from when you set a new recording (or delete one) on the IceTV server until your recorder next contacts the IceTV server to request a recording update.

Your question about why they can't "force a "push" in the same manner when they make last minute program guide changes" is moot, because it is based on a false premise. They can't "force a push" in the same way as normal updates because the normal update isn't a push, it's a pull initiated by the recorder.

IceTV never pushes to a recorder. Never. Ever.

Early afternoon is when IceTV makes their "normal" updates to the EPG. 3pm is a good time to catch these updates. When it's running a Beyonwiz recorder will request EPG updates every 60 minutes. I don't know about MCE, but I'd be surprised if it was much different. Again, IceTV never pushes EPG updates to the recorder. You know the rest. I hope.

Offline marcusstringer

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Re: Guide updates
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2010, 07:55:03 AM »
Calm down big fella... So what you're saying is... IceTV NEVER EVER EVER NEVER PUSHES?
Sorry couldn't help myself

I guess then they need something like this...http://www.icetechnology.com/products/ipushv2/

If they are going to advertise all these wiz bang phone, interactive features then they need to be able to produce true interactivity...
« Last Edit: August 19, 2010, 08:05:30 AM by marcusstringer »

Offline prl

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Re: Guide updates
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2010, 09:38:58 AM »
Calm down big fella... So what you're saying is... IceTV NEVER EVER EVER NEVER PUSHES?
Sorry couldn't help myself

I guess then they need something like this...http://www.icetechnology.com/products/ipushv2/

If they are going to advertise all these wiz bang phone, interactive features then they need to be able to produce true interactivity...
No problems, but I had said it a few times before, and described in some detail how it works.

There are plenty of push protocols around. But how many of them work reliably through NAT (Network Address Translation)? I'd guess that the very large majority of IceTV's customers are behind a NAT device of some sort or other. That's how most residential service plans are set up. If you're behind a NAT, you normally don't have a fixed IP address facing the network, and you only have one IP address for all of the devices on your home network. It's hard to make push protocols work reliably in those circumstances. Just a short power outage two nights ago rebooted my ADSL router, and when it came back up, it had a different IP address on the Internet side of the device.

The IceTV article you quoted described pretty accurately the level of interactivity that IceTV provides. If it's insufficient, then work around it or don't use it.

Offline marcusstringer

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Re: Guide updates
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2010, 09:51:14 AM »
If they are going to advertise all these wiz bang phone, interactive features then they need to be able to produce true interactivity...
Quote
The IceTV article you quoted described pretty accurately the level of interactivity that IceTV provides. If it's insufficient, then work around it or don't use it.

Once again you are correct, that didn't enter my mind for some reason. As you kept saying they couldn't do it, I was only thinking about the hardware/software on their end and completely didn't think about needing a fixed IP...

Apologies

Offline prl

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Re: Guide updates
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2010, 10:14:16 AM »
No problems, and I hope I've been able to give you a clearer idea of the limitations of IceTV and why it has those limitations. :)


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