Author Topic: Channel 10 Melbourne show start times + 5 mins  (Read 4097 times)

Offline Kaff

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Channel 10 Melbourne show start times + 5 mins
« on: July 17, 2013, 06:24:36 PM »
There seem to be a few channel 10 Melbourne shows where the IceTV guide (website) has a start time 5 minutes later than the actual start time.  I have been caught out a couple of times.
For example the following all have a start time of 8.35 on the IceTV website but the Channel 10 website shows 8.30.
Sunday.  Elementary.
Monday.  Wanted.
Tuesday.  Under The Dome.

Thanks

Offline prl

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Re: Channel 10 Melbourne show start times + 5 mins
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2013, 07:33:57 PM »
IceTV tries to estimate when the TV stations will actually start the broadcast. This is frequently after the scheduled time by some minutes, and 5-15 minutes is typical. Because IceTV can only estimate the actual start time, sometimes they get it wrong. The actual start time for The Mentalist last night was more than 5 minutes earlier than IceTV's prediction, because even with 5 min pre-padding I still lost a little of the start of the program. I think that was also the case with the most recent showing of Elementary.

Personally, I think that PVR padding is a better tool to deal with this problem than shifting the EPG times around, but I haven't been able to convince IceTV that I'm right :) In fact, I've had to increase the amount of pre-padding that I use to cope with the fact that the IceTV EPG start times are sometimes later than the actual start times.

For PVRs that don't have pre-padding, there's no way around it if the IceGuide gives a start time that's later than the actual start time.

I'm on the ACT IceGuide.
Peter
Beyonwiz T4 in-use
Beyonwiz T2, T3 & T4 for testing

Offline Paul55

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Re: Channel 10 Melbourne show start times + 5 mins
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2013, 06:05:33 PM »
Personally, I think that PVR padding is a better tool to deal with this problem than shifting the EPG times around, but I haven't been able to convince IceTV that I'm right :) In fact, I've had to increase the amount of pre-padding that I use to cope with the fact that the IceTV EPG start times are sometimes later than the actual start times.

Completely agree Peter. I have a couple of minutes of pre-padding and I've started missing the start of an increasing number of shows. This is very annoying because IceTV is supposed to automate the recording process - not make it more awkward.
Unless IceTV KNOWS or has STRONG EVIDENCE a show is going to start late, the time shouldn't be modified. Let the PVR owner deal with the evils of the commercial networks by using padding.

Offline Kaff

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Re: Channel 10 Melbourne show start times + 5 mins
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2013, 07:46:33 PM »
Thanks for the explanation prl!

I've been using IceTV for years and have never missed the start of shows like this before.  IceTV must have been guessing the start times correctly?

What a nonsense approach by IceTV.  So if a show actually starts when the network says it will, I risk missing the first 5 minutes (or whatever IceTV arbitrarily decide).

May as well set the recordings manually, then at least I won't have the wife annoyed at me for missing the start of her shows!

Offline csutak40

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Re: Channel 10 Melbourne show start times + 5 mins
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2013, 02:19:27 AM »
+1.  I have missed the beginning of shows quite a few times lately.  I'd rather fast forward the five minutes then lose the first few.  I CAN use pre-padding, but prefer not to - makes clashing with other shows more likely.  Shows rarely, if ever start before the scheduled time.
Cheers,
Judy
Windows 7 Media Center; Last Update Feb 20 2006; Beyonwiz T4, T2

Offline prl

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Re: Channel 10 Melbourne show start times + 5 mins
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2013, 12:02:20 PM »
Thanks for the explanation prl!
No problem
I've been using IceTV for years and have never missed the start of shows like this before.  IceTV must have been guessing the start times correctly?
...
IceTV has only started trying to adjust the program start times to try to reflect the actual program start times relatively recently (perhaps the last year or so, can't recall exactly). It may have been done to reflect the feature of the Freeview EPG that is also supposed to do exact program time recordings. Perhaps they're doing it on more shows now and any errors (especially making the predicted start time too late) are becoming more obvious.

The broadcasters almost always run prime time shows later than scheduled. When IceTV just used scheduled times, 20-30 min post-padding was almost always enough to catch the whole show. There were exceptions, like the final of the last Big Brother that Gretel Killeen hosted, which, IIRC, ran 50 minutes over the scheduled end time (and so pushed the schedule of the following program, which I actually wanted to record, way past its scheduled end time.

Shows out of prime time sometimes run earlier than scheduled, but I found that usually needed only a few minutes pre-padding (I had 3 minutes set for quite a long time).

While IceTV's attempt to put actual broadcast times in their EPG is perhaps laudable, the practical effect is that I now have to set padding to cope with two potential sources of incorrect start times, the broadcasters and IceTV. However, I'm actually not a big fan of this feature, even if it was implemented 100% correctly, except with large disruptions to the normal schedule, like The Night Julia Gillard Was Rolled. But then when something like that happens, it's pretty hard for IceTV to know what the revised schedule will actually be anyway.

I've also found that the rescheduling of start time and run time tends to provoke one of the few bugs remaining in the Beyonwiz's IceTV implementation, so that moving a show by only a short time or changing its duration by a small amount sometimes fails to move the timer(s) involved correctly.

As for why TV might be scheduled like this, have a look at the Wikipedia Broadcast Programming entry, in particular Bridging. IMO the late running and the unpredictability of the broadcast times generally are not accidental. The fact that the commercial broadcasters run directly from one show to the next without any intervening advertising or station promos (Hotswitching in the Wikipedia item) also makes it trickier to reliably catch the start of a program and make sure you record the whole of it.

Offline toppytools

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Re: Channel 10 Melbourne show start times + 5 mins
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2013, 01:47:11 PM »
I CAN use pre-padding, but prefer not to - makes clashing with other shows more likely.
Soft padding does not cause timer conflicts (at least not on modern PVRs). Hard padding causes conflicts.

PVRs use soft padding. Windows media center also uses soft padding (unless you have Win7 or 8 and have hard padding enabled in the IceTV Interactive app).

Offline prl

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Re: Channel 10 Melbourne show start times + 5 mins
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2013, 05:51:18 PM »
I only caught the beginning of The Americans this week because I have 5 minutes pre-padding. The the padded recording started exactly at the station's classification screen for the show. If I'd started the recording on IceTV time, I would have lost the first 5 minutes.

I see that the IceTV schedule for The Americans on Monday Aug 12 is also set to start 5 minutes later (21:35) than the station's scheduled time (21:30) (ACT guide).

Offline csutak40

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Re: Channel 10 Melbourne show start times + 5 mins
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2013, 10:39:04 PM »
While I understand why IceTV is doing this, I'd rather they would revert to starting things at the scheduled time.  I'd much rather fast forward 5 minutes than miss the beginning of a show.  With a few shows I have now put pre-padding on, just to cancel out IceTV's padding, so it is becoming quite annoying

Offline Paul55

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Re: Channel 10 Melbourne show start times + 5 mins
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2013, 07:32:16 AM »
I only caught the beginning of The Americans this week because I have 5 minutes pre-padding. The the padded recording started exactly at the station's classification screen for the show. If I'd started the recording on IceTV time, I would have lost the first 5 minutes.

I see that the IceTV schedule for The Americans on Monday Aug 12 is also set to start 5 minutes later (21:35) than the station's scheduled time (21:30) (ACT guide).

This is getting ridiculous!! Come on IceTV, listen to your customers and stop trying to play catch up with FreeView. The reason most of us have IceTV is that we despise the way FreeView tries to 'manage' us - and now, in a different way, you are trying to do the same thing.
We are smart enough to deal with the networks' shenanigans - we don't need you complicating the issue.

Offline Kaff

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Re: Channel 10 Melbourne show start times + 5 mins
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2013, 09:45:08 AM »
A couple of weeks ago I submitted a support request stating under the dome (Ch10 Melb) was consistently starting at 8.30, not 8.35.

To their credit Icetv responded that they will adjust the time to 8.30 and "monitor".  It has been left at 8.30 since.

I suggest everyone do the same.  If icetv "guess" the start time incorrectly, (and it is a guess), submit a support request.  I suspect this will get old very quickly for icetv.  If icetv are going to play around with start times put the onus on them to get it right.

Offline csutak40

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Re: Channel 10 Melbourne show start times + 5 mins
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2013, 10:24:00 PM »
This is not just on Channel 10, happens on 7 too.  Last night's Mr Selfridge had a good chunk of the beginning missing, had to go to the website and look at the beginning on line to figure out what was going on.
I realise that IceTV is trying to be helpful, but it is clearly not working.  As I said before, I'd much rather fast forward how ever long, then miss the beginning of shows, so I hope IceTV will re-think this practice.

Offline prl

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Re: Channel 10 Melbourne show start times + 5 mins
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2013, 03:01:30 PM »
 ::)

We watched our recording of Jindabyne (broadcast GO! 01:30 Sun Sep 8) the other night, and even though we had 5 min prepadding, we didn't record the beginning of the movie. Without the pre-padding, we would have missed the introduction of an important character (the electrician in the old 4WD), and his role in the rest of the movie would have been rather unclear.

ACT guide.

Offline csutak40

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Re: Channel 10 Melbourne show start times + 5 mins
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2013, 09:46:19 PM »
This Week Live started earlier (not sure how much earlier) then the recording started tonight

Offline csutak40

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Re: Channel 10 Melbourne show start times + 5 mins
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2013, 12:08:39 AM »
This just keeps happening!  Tonight, Body of Proof on 7 started early too.  Missed the beginning again  >:(


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