Author Topic: ABCHD missing from the EPG  (Read 5625 times)

Offline raymondjpg

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ABCHD missing from the EPG
« on: February 18, 2009, 09:17:20 AM »
1. ACT region
2. DVB Webscheduler and Topfield 7100
3. Any show on ABCHD.

The only entry for ABCHD in the Topfield EPG is one for "Erky Perky" 24 February. Surely one for the cognoscenti.

There hasn't been any data downloaded for ABCHD for a while to enable channel mapping for the EPG in DVB Webscheduler.

ABCHD is right now broadcasting the same stuff as ABC SD.

Any reason why the ABCHD EPG is not being populated?
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Offline tonymy01

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Re: ABCHD missing from the EPG
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2009, 09:24:42 AM »
ICE is only showing the proper HD shows they broadcast (not upscaled SD), as most people with a HD setup don't really want to record upscaled SD (i.e. only want to record true HD on HD channels), and it makes it very easy to see what is really HD coming up on ABCHD (i.e. bugger all).
Everything else is just an SD simulcast (and/or the weather pattern... well used to be during the news anyway).   Pathetic of Auntie isn't it.   You can go into the ICE setup webpage and tell it to copy the SD guide to HD for the missing timeslots.
ICE used to do the same for 7,9,10 too, but gave up when those broadcasters starting mixing and matching different shows on the different channels.
Regards
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Tony

Beyonwiz DP-S1 & Topfield 5K (using PerlTGD to upload ICE EPG/timers for the 5K, normal ICE interactive for the Wiz).

Offline raymondjpg

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Re: ABCHD missing from the EPG
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2009, 09:54:53 AM »
Many thanks for your response.

I suspected as much.

Ideally I would prefer to only see what HD channels are broadcasting that isn't just an SD simulcast, but can understand why for example PRIME HD (Ch7) is populated with mix and match.

I'll do as you suggest, tell Ice Interactive to copy the SD guide to HD for the missing timeslots, get an EPG across for DVB Webscheduler, map the ABCHD channel, then go back and disable the copy SD guide to HD. Should do the trick. Aunty HD EPG should then be bare unless and until she bucks up and decides to grace us with some unique HD content.

Same may apply to SC10 HD (Ch10). While the Topfield EPG is populated with (presumably) mix and match, there is no data for the Webscheduler EPG. As 10 is threatening to introduce Ch1 shortly this doesn't bother me too much, but I'll believe it when I see it!

Offline prl

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Re: ABCHD missing from the EPG
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2009, 09:59:20 AM »
Last time I looked (on the weekend), ABC had no native HD broadcasts scheduled at all. I think the most recent prime time native HD that the ABC had on was the rerun of Rain Shadow.

This is more the fault of the regulators and the governments involved. The regulation allows the ABC and SBS to report upscaled SD and converted & upscaled analog as HD. The governments (both flavours) were responsible for doing this, and for not funding the SBS or ABC adequately to buy or create more HD content.
Quote from: ACMA Press Release ABA - NR37/2004
The ABC and the SBS are permitted to 'up-convert' their analog or standard definition digital programs to high definition digital programs. For example, the ABC program, The Bill , broadcast in prime-time, has been up-converted to a high definition format. The SBS has converted all the programs on its main channel to a high definition format (its World News Channel is only broadcast in SDTV).

As a consequence of this, the ABC reported that it broadcast 8291 hours of HD in 2007 (22.7 hrs/day) (latest figures on the ACMA), and the SBS reported 7835 hours of HD in 2007 (21.5 hrs/day), even though the ABC broadcasts very little native HD material, and SBS, none at all.

By contrast, the commercial broadcasters broadcast about 2000 hours/year of HD, but it is (has to be) real HD.

The statutory requirement is 1040 hours/year.
Peter
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Beyonwiz T2, T3 & T4 for testing

Offline raymondjpg

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Re: ABCHD missing from the EPG
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2009, 10:48:32 AM »
I'll forgive ABC, and to a lesser extent SBS (because they have some revenue from advertisements) for not coming up with much native HD content, but not SC10.

It must be nearly 20 years ago that all other channels in the SC10 catchment area moved to stereo sound on analogue broadcasts. SC10 protested that they couldn't afford it. They are still broadcasting mono on analogue broadcasts.

A more recent example is the contempt SC10 shows its "regional" viewers with F1 broadcasts. Ch10 managed to broadcast HD content, in some cases in real time, SC10 chose not to and instead put on a delayed SD broadcast.

My son was ropable and resorted to a web streaming service that he had to log on early to secure a slot. Fortunately it only knocked a 200-300 MB hole in our internet download quota.

I can understand that SC10 will not be too much bothered by what an ol' fart like me thinks of them, but they had better take notice of what Gen Y has to say!

« Last Edit: February 18, 2009, 10:51:37 AM by raymondjpg »

Offline prl

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Re: ABCHD missing from the EPG
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2009, 11:25:31 AM »
...
A more recent example is the contempt SC10 shows its "regional" viewers with F1 broadcasts. Ch10 managed to broadcast HD content, in some cases in real time, SC10 chose not to and instead put on a delayed SD broadcast.
...
It's not just SC10 doing this. Nine covered the recent Cricket ODI against New Zealand in HD. While I was watching the cricket on WIN ACT SD, I saw a promo telling me I could watch the cricket on HD. Presumably it was just stuck into the SD feed that everyone was getting, but there was definitely no HD coverage of that series on WIN ACT.

And yes, Canberra is "regional".

Offline raymondjpg

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Re: ABCHD missing from the EPG
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2009, 12:00:32 PM »
Quote
And yes, Canberra is "regional".

I really don't mind being regional! I suppose it comes down to how much money per square kilometer spent on what is advertised determines how much money the advertisers are prepared to pay and hence how much the TV stations will spend on broadcasting.

I haven't seen the data but I would not be at all surprised if the regional commercial stations couldn't make a buck providing similar levels of HD content as for the major population centres. It does surprise me that WIN HD and PRIME HD (when broadcasting native HD content) don't air adverts to anywhere near the extent as their SD channels. Is there a technical reason for this?

Offline prl

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Re: ABCHD missing from the EPG
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2009, 12:45:27 PM »
Quote
And yes, Canberra is "regional".

I really don't mind being regional! I suppose it comes down to how much money per square kilometer spent on what is advertised determines how much money the advertisers are prepared to pay and hence how much the TV stations will spend on broadcasting.

I haven't seen the data but I would not be at all surprised if the regional commercial stations couldn't make a buck providing similar levels of HD content as for the major population centres. It does surprise me that WIN HD and PRIME HD (when broadcasting native HD content) don't air adverts to anywhere near the extent as their SD channels. Is there a technical reason for this?
Population Hobart 206000; population Canberra 334000 (2006 figures, ABS Yearbook 2008), yet Hobart is "metropolitan" and Canberra is "regional". The population of Canberra is about 3/4 of that of the whole of Tasmania, all concentrated into one city. The ACT also has the highest wages (AWOTE) of any state or territory, so there's plenty of money to buy all the baubles that the advertising is offering.

In the ACT, when HD services were first introduced, they were almost advertisement free. They still carry lower levels of advertising than the SD service. This is one of the reasons for my skepticism about what Freeview and the "fifteen channels" will actually provide in the way of content. The commercial channels are creating an expectation of more content, but I can't see where the funding will come from to finance the new content. Something's got to give. My understanding is that FTA is losing audience share, which I think is one reason why Freeview is running a campaign that appears to be designed to make FTA look like "free" PayTV. But I doubt that Freeview will do much for the trend away from FTA.

Offline raymondjpg

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Re: ABCHD missing from the EPG
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2009, 03:29:18 PM »
Population Hobart 206000; population Canberra 334000 (2006 figures, ABS Yearbook 2008), yet Hobart is "metropolitan" and Canberra is "regional". The population of Canberra is about 3/4 of that of the whole of Tasmania, all concentrated into one city. The ACT also has the highest wages (AWOTE) of any state or territory, so there's plenty of money to buy all the baubles that the advertising is offering.

In the ACT, when HD services were first introduced, they were almost advertisement free. They still carry lower levels of advertising than the SD service. This is one of the reasons for my skepticism about what Freeview and the "fifteen channels" will actually provide in the way of content. The commercial channels are creating an expectation of more content, but I can't see where the funding will come from to finance the new content. Something's got to give. My understanding is that FTA is losing audience share, which I think is one reason why Freeview is running a campaign that appears to be designed to make FTA look like "free" PayTV. But I doubt that Freeview will do much for the trend away from FTA.

I hope this is not too OT, but I agree with you about the ACT to the extent that the commercial TV operators are missing out on an opportunity to cash in on Canberra's proclivity to spend on consumer goods. Unless the TV Execs have hard data that shows people in the ACT are more likely to skip ads, or time shift, I would suggest that there is still a significant proportion of the population that is either disinclined, or to tired, to heave themselves out of the chair to do something more productive in ad breaks. The fact that commercial TV can get away with bringing on "messages from our sponsors" as the surf ski rounds the last marker buoy and heads for the beach, or Rossi is about to overtake Stoner on the last lap, is testament to what our TV audience is prepared to put up with.

My guess is that per head of population the ACT is likely to have a significant proportion with HD enabled TVs, and that porting ads from SD broadcasts and upscaling for HD broadcast wouldn't cost that much more than demo loops they are showing now. More ads means more HD content.

Also my guess is that the higher frequency of native HD broadcasts in major population centres such as Sydney has more to do with peer pressure and ridicule over drinkies at Mosman than hard nosed commercial sense. You have to grow your audience, not alienate them.

If it were anywhere but Australia or the UK I would have to agree with you about a decline in FTA broadcasting. In these two countries there is a tradition of reasonably good FTA material that is advertisement free, and something real for commercial TV to compete with. As for Freeview, the mind boggles as to what will be aired. I Love Lucy? But at least they have a better chance of making a fist of it than in the USA. Since Kerry Packer has gone there appears to be plenty of wriggle room for bright young execs to make a mark and turn a reasonable profit for commercial TV. I suspect some gnarly dead wood at the top that needs pruning.

And to go back to my very favourite FTA commercial channel SC10, what are the odds that instead of seizing an opportunity they will once again cry poor and protest that they cannot afford to license Ch1 for broadcast in the ACT?

Offline prl

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Re: ABCHD missing from the EPG
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2009, 05:11:47 PM »
...
And to go back to my very favourite FTA commercial channel SC10, what are the odds that instead of seizing an opportunity they will once again cry poor and protest that they cannot afford to license Ch1 for broadcast in the ACT?
Freeview lists them (click on Canberra) as carrying one HD and two SD services. If they carry a HD service, all that their network partner will have to give them will be ONE, so I think they will carry ONE.

I found this article that claims that SC10 will carry ONE HD. But I think the most powerful argument that they will come aboard is their lack of viable alternatives.

SCB's Web page is no help at all. They haven't posted a press release there since Oct 2007.


Offline raymondjpg

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Re: ABCHD missing from the EPG
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2009, 05:37:46 PM »
Freeview lists them (click on Canberra) as carrying one HD and two SD services. If they carry a HD service, all that their network partner will have to give them will be ONE, so I think they will carry ONE.

I found this article that claims that SC10 will carry ONE HD. But I think the most powerful argument that they will come aboard is their lack of viable alternatives.

SCB's Web page is no help at all. They haven't posted a press release there since Oct 2007.

Thanks for the heads up. I'm already purple in the face from holding my breath so long *gasp gasp*.

Seriously SC10 has had little or no HD content for so long I am dubious about Ch1 changing their cheapskating ways. I'll be the first to congratulate them if they do go with it. I would have thought there was plenty of potential around here for sport related advertising, not to mention the comfort related recovery products like lounges and beds and junk food.

Offline dgaust

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Re: ABCHD missing from the EPG
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2009, 10:19:56 AM »
Ice have said that SC10 have indicated they'll be carrying the One HD feed from March 26 (maybe earlier depending on when they bring it online).

That's one down, now just need Win TV to do the same (I'm in Wollongong).

But I've requested this before, and I have no idea why it's not, but instead of putting nothing in the guide, why can't Ice put in a place holder like they do for Nine/Win with the "N/A for Nine and Affiliates only". We need to have some data so we can add the channel listing to our guides, otherwise we have to wait for the odd week when we know that there's something for that channel in the guide before we do so.

That's my one grievance with the current data being provided.

Offline raymondjpg

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Re: ABCHD missing from the EPG
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2009, 04:34:04 PM »
Ice have said that SC10 have indicated they'll be carrying the One HD feed from March 26 (maybe earlier depending on when they bring it online).

That's one down, now just need Win TV to do the same (I'm in Wollongong).

But I've requested this before, and I have no idea why it's not, but instead of putting nothing in the guide, why can't Ice put in a place holder like they do for Nine/Win with the "N/A for Nine and Affiliates only". We need to have some data so we can add the channel listing to our guides, otherwise we have to wait for the odd week when we know that there's something for that channel in the guide before we do so.

That's my one grievance with the current data being provided.

My strategy posted in the third message in this thread worked. There is now a column in the DVB Websheduler EPG for ABCHD without any data. SC10 HD also, and which has been without any data for some time now.

DVB Webscheduler Channel Mapping setup page shows an error for SC10 HD (presumably because no data has been provided by Ice for some time) but there is no error against ABCHD (yet). This may be because the EPG data fetched from Ice today overwrote data from yesterday that had HDTV EPG data copied across from the SD channel by Ice Interactive. There may well be an error against both SC10HD and ABCHD after the fetch from Ice tomorrow.



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