Author Topic: Padding Missing?  (Read 44183 times)

Offline jeisner

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Re: Padding Missing?
« Reply #60 on: May 23, 2012, 09:54:46 AM »
Yep, don't buy it.  I don't think that person knows wtf she's talking about.

That possibility worries me more really.. How seriously are Humax actually taking this issue? They and ICETV are essentially selling a product they know to be faulty (at least for the last few months) we keep getting told it will be fixed in a matter of weeks, not months, and still Humax support has no idea...

And you are right once in a while it does work for me too, though mostly it doesn't.. I have checked with other people at work who have this unit (a couple do) and they have the same padding issue, i.e. sometimes it just doesn't work, they assumed it was ICETVs fault when I asked them...

Offline prl

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Re: Padding Missing?
« Reply #61 on: May 23, 2012, 02:30:12 PM »
...
Quote
The differences between Standby mode electricity consumptions with PSS ON and OFF are not significant.
The differences would add up to paying for an extra day in several years.
 ...
OK, let's assume several = three or more. That means that according to the source there's less than 0.1% difference in power consumption (3 years > 1000 days) between having PSS on or OFF. So why is there an option at all?

Anyway, the statement as a whole seems to be one that falls under the scope of Wolfgang Pauli's famous "nicht einmal falsch" (not even wrong).
Peter
Beyonwiz T4 in-use
Beyonwiz T2, T3 & T4 for testing

Offline jeisner

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Re: Padding Missing?
« Reply #62 on: May 23, 2012, 03:29:04 PM »
OK, let's assume several = three or more. That means that according to the source there's less than 0.1% difference in power consumption (3 years > 1000 days) between having PSS on or OFF. So why is there an option at all?

Who knows? maybe they mean an extra day on the average house power bill in a few years.. would make more sense, otherwise as you say why bother with the mode at all?

I did ask for the exact power consumption difference (we know PSS ON is claimed to be < 1W), she avoided answering that question, twice now..
« Last Edit: May 23, 2012, 03:31:48 PM by jeisner »

Offline prl

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Re: Padding Missing?
« Reply #63 on: May 23, 2012, 04:50:14 PM »
OK, let's assume several = three or more. That means that according to the source there's less than 0.1% difference in power consumption (3 years > 1000 days) between having PSS on or OFF. So why is there an option at all?

Who knows? maybe they mean an extra day on the average house power bill in a few years.. would make more sense, otherwise as you say why bother with the mode at all?

I did ask for the exact power consumption difference (we know PSS ON is claimed to be < 1W), she avoided answering that question, twice now..
From what I understand, there are three possible operating modes PVRs can have other than completely off at the wall (and not all have all modes):
  • Low-power standby: only part of the power supply and the front panel are powered up. This typically runs a low-power microcontroller that allows a countdown timer to run to power up for the next recording, for the unit to respond to front panel and remote "power up" commands, and perhaps to run a clock or similar display on the front panel. The main board is not powered and the operating software is not running (or even in RAM). Beyonwiz and (IIRC) Topfield standby modes are like this. A Beyonwiz DP-S1 draws a none-too-impressive 4.5W in this mode.This is similar to a PC in powered down (but plugged in) mode. The Humax's PSS ON is almost certainly this sort of mode.
  • "Instant on" standby. The main board is powered up. The operating firmware is in memory running. Depending on the exact design of the mode, various parts of the system may be shut down. IIRC TiVo standby is like this, with almost everything running except A/V output. The TiVo's standby power is little different from its normal operating power (again, IIRC, 20+W).  A carefully designed "instant on" standby could shutdown the A/V decoding completely, shut down time shifting, spin the HDD down when it wasn't actually being used (timeshifting has to be shut down to allow this to happen), only run the tuners and digital stream decoding (but not A/V decoding) if FTA EPG (Freeview or EIT) is being used, and then only perhaps for a few minutes every 15-30 minutes, or only run the IceTV EPG client for a few minutes every 15 minutes or so. That may also allow some other parts of the mainboard to be shutdown much of the time. This would still need a substantial fraction of the power needed for normal operation. Humax's PSS OFF is probably something like this, but just how good they've been at cutting the power consumption is unclear. Does the HDD keep running in this mode? If it does, there's ~10W straight off!
  • Running. Everything powered up. HDD may be able to spin down if timeshifting is disabled, and no recording or playback is happening. A Beyonwiz DP-S1 draws ~30W running.
In the absence of better information from Humax about PSS OFF power consumption, it may need an enterprising forum member with a Humax and an energy meter to answer that question. However, low cost power meters are typically rubbish at measuring low power consumption levels.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2012, 04:56:58 PM by prl »

Offline busybee90us2003

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Re: Padding Missing?
« Reply #64 on: May 23, 2012, 05:01:20 PM »
I wish I had found out about this issue before I bought the Humax.

Sigh. Hopefully it will get fixed soon. It has missed the end of Bikie Wars twice and modern family. So frustrating. Also I was recording two shows at the same time and was trying to watch a third on a different network (like adverised) but it wouldn't let me.

I wonder if waiting and hoping for an update or something to fix it is wise or whether I should see if I can return it   

 


Offline prl

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Re: Padding Missing?
« Reply #65 on: May 23, 2012, 05:51:04 PM »
... Also I was recording two shows at the same time and was trying to watch a third on a different network (like adverised) but it wouldn't let me.
...
On a dual tuner PVR, the best you can hope for there is that you can watch a third program on a different network only if the two recordings are from the same network (e.g. watch Nine Digital, record Seven Digital and Seven 2).

The IceTV shop page for the Humax says it has "dual tuners so you can record two channels at once whilst playing back a recorded show ...". [my emphasis] Which is different from what you described.

Can you point to an advertised claim that says you're always able to record two shows and watch a third live?

Offline lingfish

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Re: Padding Missing?
« Reply #66 on: May 23, 2012, 05:59:16 PM »

  • "Instant on" standby. ...  Humax's PSS OFF is probably something like this, but just how good they've been at cutting the power consumption is unclear. Does the HDD keep running in this mode? If it does, there's ~10W straight off!


Out of the box (I haven't played with modes), the Humax definately spins down the disk.  When I hit power on the remote, I definately hear it spin up/unlock.

Offline jeisner

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Re: Padding Missing?
« Reply #67 on: May 23, 2012, 08:59:11 PM »
I wonder if waiting and hoping for an update... whether I should see if I can return it   

Good luck on both fronts, we have waited 3 months for an update thus far, I just today decided to try the second option and I am awaiting a response from ICETV before I seek advice from the ACCC.. (The 'responses' from Humax were just the last straw for me)..

The ACCC is pretty clear on their site..
"You are only entitled to a refund or replacement if the problem is major or cannot be fixed.  If the problem is not major and can be fixed within a reasonable time, the store can choose to refund, repair or replace the product."

Well I consider it a major problem if a recorder fails consistently to record shows completely (as padding, an advertised feature to ensure this does not work).. But even if it is not a major problem, I believe they have failed to fix it in a reasonable time frame, though really what is reasonable?

Offline jeisner

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Re: Padding Missing?
« Reply #68 on: May 23, 2012, 09:05:53 PM »
In the absence of better information from Humax about PSS OFF power consumption, it may need an enterprising forum member with a Humax and an energy meter to answer that question. However, low cost power meters are typically rubbish at measuring low power consumption levels.

OK in PSS ON mode as lingfish states the HDD powers down and so does the LCD display..

In PSS OFF mode the LCD screen stays on with the time displayed (no huge deal) but also the HDD does NOT power down, ever, I can hear it continuing to spin even 5 hours later dispite the unit is soft powered down. So the power draw difference is HUGE < 1W to > 10W (at least over 10 fold difference) no matter what some Humax rep states in a non technical roundabout way..

I am still not 100% certain whether this fixes the padding issue, that is yet to be proven, but it is effectively breaking their whole advertisment that it uses < 1W in standby as to make base features work (recording with padding) you have to disable the true standby mode..
« Last Edit: May 24, 2012, 11:55:44 AM by jeisner »

Offline carlprowse

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Re: Padding Missing?
« Reply #69 on: May 24, 2012, 07:23:25 PM »
The Humax advice is worth a try. I have made the changes suggested and will see if the padding issue is fixed over the next few weeks.

It would be good if someone from Humax participated in this forum. It is in their own interest to present their own case here in the bet way they can.

One thing I do not understand is why the automatic transition to standby needs to be switched off. If padding will work in normal standby (ie. PSS off) why does it matter if it automatically changes from ON to Standby?

The power use is not a big issue for me. If I expect the Humax to be updated whenever I add a new show to record or when a TV station changes the start time of a program, then it has to be on and ready to communicate with IceTV. However, it would be nice to know how much power it does use in normal standby.

Offline jeisner

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Humax FAIL
« Reply #70 on: May 24, 2012, 08:51:20 PM »
The Humax advice is worth a try. I have made the changes suggested and will see if the padding issue is fixed over the next few weeks.

Well I have had PSS OFF for two days now, yesterday I got my hopes up as it correctly recorded 'the block' with padding, but tonight PSS was still off and padding did not work for 'the block', which meant I missed the last 10 minutes... boo hiss Humax, another fail, still not consistent...
« Last Edit: May 24, 2012, 08:53:18 PM by jeisner »

Offline toppytools

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Re: Padding Missing?
« Reply #71 on: May 24, 2012, 09:35:26 PM »
In the absence of better information from Humax about PSS OFF power consumption, it may need an enterprising forum member with a Humax and an energy meter to answer that question. However, low cost power meters are typically rubbish at measuring low power consumption levels.
My "Watt Clever" branded el cheapo power meter reports the following:

Standby with Power Saving ON = 0.8W
Standby with Power Saving OFF = 18.6W (with Network, HDD and Fan ON and a front clock)
Operating = 22W

Standby with Power Saving ON starts at 18.6W and then drops to 0.8W about 20 seconds later when I hear a click that sounds like a relay, but could be the HDD heads parking.

The Humax can update itself from IceTV and record while in Standby, with Power Saving OFF, so the tuners must be active as well (or at least become active when needed). Also, with the Humax in Standby with Power Saving OFF my HDMI switch will switch to the Humax when I turn my Beyonwiz off so even though the Humax is not outputting a picture there is some sort of signal from the HDMI output.

Offline prl

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Re: Padding Missing?
« Reply #72 on: May 25, 2012, 10:56:21 AM »
...
My "Watt Clever" branded el cheapo power meter reports the following:

Standby with Power Saving ON = 0.8W
Standby with Power Saving OFF = 18.6W (with Network, HDD and Fan ON and a front clock)
Operating = 22W

Standby with Power Saving ON starts at 18.6W and then drops to 0.8W about 20 seconds later when I hear a click that sounds like a relay, but could be the HDD heads parking.

The Humax can update itself from IceTV and record while in Standby, with Power Saving OFF, so the tuners must be active as well (or at least become active when needed). Also, with the Humax in Standby with Power Saving OFF my HDMI switch will switch to the Humax when I turn my Beyonwiz off so even though the Humax is not outputting a picture there is some sort of signal from the HDMI output.
The Humax PSS OFF standby all sounds similar to TiVo's "standby", which essentially means "almost everything powered up and running", but no A/V out, and perhaps something different on the front panel from normal operation. Powering a Beyonwiz down to standby (equivalent of Humax PSS ON standby) also takes some time from pressing the remote to actual shutdown. I've never measured it, but 20 sec wouldn't be far off.

Does leaving the Humax on all the time solve the padding problem? If it does, it may be a better option than PSS ON standby, at a modest increase in power consumption (~20%). Not really a satisfactory solution, but perhaps it'd let you record effectively until Humax fixes the problem.

Not having reliable padding makes IceTV recording pretty unsatisfactory.

Offline jeisner

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Re: Padding Missing?
« Reply #73 on: May 25, 2012, 11:25:34 AM »
Does leaving the Humax on all the time solve the padding problem?

No it doesn't for me, still seems touch and go, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, mostly the later..

(I have been doing a lot of testing, something it seems to me Humax didn't bother with)
« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 12:54:57 PM by jeisner »

Offline swamprat96

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Re: Padding Missing?
« Reply #74 on: May 25, 2012, 12:45:40 PM »
lets not forget- we also need padding longer than 20 minutes. Try recording a film on any of the commercial networks- they are so loaded with ads we need adjustable padding of up to 60 minutes- and padding that works!


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