Author Topic: IceTV Resurrected  (Read 91344 times)

Offline Dave at IceTV

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Re: IceTV Resurrected
« Reply #255 on: November 04, 2015, 12:19:23 PM »
This is a new company operating IceTV under licence from the Administrator. It is being personally funded by Colin and his wife and they cannot afford to subsidise the losses incurred by the failure of the “old” IceTV.
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Offline simoncasey

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Re: IceTV Resurrected
« Reply #256 on: November 04, 2015, 12:28:12 PM »
This is a new company operating IceTV under licence from the Administrator. It is being personally funded by Colin and his wife and they cannot afford to subsidise the losses incurred by the failure of the “old” IceTV.

That's not the point of the last couple of posts. It's really about attracting and retaining customers. As mentioned before, if this really was a new company taking over the business they would be doing as much as possible to retain existing clients as that is much easier than winning new clients.

Offline artroom

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Re: IceTV Resurrected
« Reply #257 on: November 04, 2015, 12:57:17 PM »
That's not the point of the last couple of posts. It's really about attracting and retaining customers. As mentioned before, if this really was a new company taking over the business they would be doing as much as possible to retain existing clients as that is much easier than winning new clients.

Exactly.
The cost of attracting new customers is a LOT more than keeping existing customers happy. It is something they should give serious thought to.

Having more customers who are paying a little less, may generate more income than fewer customers paying a little more, plus it means they will likely all feel a lot happier. It's something only time will tell as to how many leave based on this experience. No doubt they have based the pricing on assuming a certain amount won't be back.
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Offline Atreides83

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Re: IceTV Resurrected
« Reply #258 on: November 04, 2015, 01:10:22 PM »
This is a new company operating IceTV under licence from the Administrator. It is being personally funded by Colin and his wife and they cannot afford to subsidise the losses incurred by the failure of the “old” IceTV.

Most people are aware now of how the legal arrangements work, but there's still the matter of honouring one's obligations. If this is a profitable business (and I can't see why it wouldn't be), there should be no issue with gradually honouring them over time for people who continue with the service.

I would personally sign up again to IceTV for $5.99 a month, and have this discount finished once the equivalent in lost subscription was paid back. As it stands, I will not be.

Ethical obligations aside, this would seem to make sense from a business point of view. As simoncasey says, retaining existing clients is a lot more cost effective than winning new ones.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2015, 01:18:25 PM by Atreides83 »

Offline IanL-S

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Re: IceTV Resurrected
« Reply #259 on: November 04, 2015, 01:24:11 PM »
I am not fussed about the loss of my old subscription (4 years left to run).

If the IceTV services is to continue it must be cash flow positive. So far, the new operators have had a lot of cash going out (rent, wages, licence fees to the old IceTV) and none coming in. Once the business is on a firm footing they may be able to reduce the cost to subscribers (either monthly rate or discounted longer term subscription).

We need to put things into perspective. The monthly cost of the subscription is about the same as I would pay for two cup of coffee. I know which will give me more satisfaction .... IceTV.

As many others have observed, if you do not want to pay the going price, you do not have to do so. If you consider it is worth $8 a month, you will pay, if not you will not. The fact that you lost say 4 years prepaid to the old IceTV is, logically, irrelevant to the decision to continue to by an IceTV subscriber with the new operators.

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Offline warkus

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Re: IceTV Resurrected
« Reply #260 on: November 04, 2015, 01:49:02 PM »
If the IceTV services is to continue it must be cash flow positive. So far, the new operators have had a lot of cash going out (rent, wages, licence fees to the old IceTV) and none coming in. Once the business is on a firm footing they may be able to reduce the cost to subscribers (either monthly rate or discounted longer term subscription).


The only problem with that is to get your business on a firm footing you need subscribers as its kind of essential to IceTV's survival. If people don't resign up, there wont be an IceTV...


Offline TimC

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Re: IceTV Resurrected
« Reply #261 on: November 04, 2015, 01:50:31 PM »
I think the thing to remember is that IceTV currently has no competition.
Its all very well to say "I'm not gonna pay", but the consequence is that you will lose the service.

If there was a competitor, the situation would have been quite different. I doubt if it could have been resurrected at all.

I am curious what "Operating under license from the Administrator" means.
Does it mean that the Administrator currently holds the Intellectual Property rights for the IceTV software and the new IceTV is currently paying a licensing fee to the Administrator?

I suspect that the Intellectual Property rights for the IceTV software is the only asset of any value held by the old IceTV.
The physical assets (Office Furniture, setvers, PCs etc) would fetch little at auction.
As an additional complication, the IceTV software only has value, if it is in use, hence the license arrangement with the administrator.

I'll bet that the Licensing fee will be a large chunk of the current monthly fee.
I also suspect that the new IceTV is being run very lean i.e. leased equipment, an absolute minimum of staff, etc.
It will be operating in the red at the moment, seeing that they will not see much in the way of money until the free period is up in the next few days.
I am sure everyone at IceTV are holding their breath to see if they can get to a point where they break even.

Profit is unlikely to come until the old IceTV is wound up and the the Intellectual Property rights for the IceTV software are be sold to new IceTV.

I agree with Dave that "they cannot afford to subsidise the losses incurred by the failure of the “old” IceTV".
If they can't break even under the licensing arrangement, they will not be able to hold on until the old IceTV is wound up.

If we want the service to continue at all, we will need to accept our losses and pay up. Its a bitter pill, but if we don't swallow it, we will lose the service.

I rely on their service and I hope they survive.
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Offline Heideho

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Re: IceTV Resurrected
« Reply #262 on: November 04, 2015, 01:52:05 PM »
As someone who has been a customer and lost out I can appreciate how you may feel but the reality is it is what it is. Having considered the alternative I'm still very happy that the EPG is continuing and I will be subscribing.
Brisbane

Offline warkus

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Re: IceTV Resurrected
« Reply #263 on: November 04, 2015, 01:53:49 PM »
+1 Simon...I have to agree.

I understand the situation, i understand Australian Company Law, I understand its a different company, I understand all of it, so don't preach to me about how all that works, i get it... but this isn't about that any of that.

Its about making those that lost out, feel at least a teny tiny bit valued, in an effort to keep them as a customer. Even friggin $1 or $2 off a month for the duration of your existing subscription as a token gesture would show that they actually have some understanding of how people are feeling. Nobody really is going to care so much about the discount itself, but its just the fact that its been offered, it would go a LONG way to retaining people.

I have to agree wholeheartedly, if new people had purchased this business, they would be looking at every way possible to retain subscribers based on what has happened, the current arrangement does not appear to be doing that.

** Oh sorry, we went broke, and now we are back but you all gotta pay $7.99 for our awesome most wonderful product... ** That's about all we have had from them...

I appreciate they are funding this themselves and they too have lost out in this, but they could still go further than they currently are to make previous subscribers feel that they actually matter to the "new" company.

Many subscribers have little choice but to re-subscribe - like skippa owners, and people like Paul55 who have older wizes that don't support series functionality. It would seem that this is what they are banking on, people needing the guide for their device to function in the way they want it to or to function at all, and also banking on those being too "accustomed" to the features and functionality of the IceTV guide, or those that simply can't be bothered looking for a different solution.

I understand why people are re-subscribing, and i'm not telling people either way to or not to subscribe. I have stayed well and truly out of that debate. It's your personal choice and nobody should tell you what choice to make.

That aside i think the least the owners could do is make those that are re-subscribing feel like they are more than just a funding source, especially when those funding sources are the life blood of your business and kind of an important requirement to your company survival..

Mark

 

Offline Stalky

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Re: IceTV Resurrected
« Reply #264 on: November 04, 2015, 02:12:54 PM »
Well said Mark - my sentiments exactly.

"Its about making those that lost out, feel at least a teny tiny bit valued, in an effort to keep them as a customer. Even friggin $1 or $2 off a month for the duration of your existing subscription as a token gesture would show that they actually have some understanding of how people are feeling. Nobody really is going to care so much about the discount itself, but its just the fact that its been offered, it would go a LONG way to retaining people."

My 'old' IceTV subs went well into 2020 but, to me, it's the principle of the thing. And I hate being lied to and misled about the whole thing. A small discount would at least make me think that the present IceTV people (and, let's face it, they are largely the 'old' IceTV people) care about loyalty etc.

I'm bauking at the $7.99 because of those principles. For me, life without IceTV would be more difficult but not impossible!

Offline Atreides83

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Re: IceTV Resurrected
« Reply #265 on: November 04, 2015, 02:20:39 PM »
If the IceTV services is to continue it must be cash flow positive.
I obviously don't know their finances, but I find it hard to imagine that a small discount to existing subscribers would not be more than made up for by the customers that it retains.

Also at this stage, many of the potential new customers have heard it went defunct so are unlikely to consider signing up for a while. Existing customers know how good it is so are more likely to sign up again. So you would think they would be extra keen on keeping existing customers at this point.

The fact that you lost say 4 years prepaid to the old IceTV is, logically, irrelevant to the decision to continue to by an IceTV subscriber with the new operators.

You could apply the sunk costs argument even it was the same company. But either way, most people place a certain utility value on not encouraging unethical behaviour, even if it costs them.

Yes, legally it is a new company. But we can all see that the CEO of the new company is the same as the old one. Thus many people are unwilling to continue to enable someone to generate a profit when they have just written off huge obligations. We understand that a cashflow is required for the company to exist. But people do not consider it fair for someone who has just caused people a lot of losses to earn exactly the same amount of profit as someone who hasn't.

And look, maybe people aren't being rational. But a large percentage of the population often acts irrationally, and good companies find ways to keep even these people happy.

Offline kymh

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Re: IceTV Resurrected
« Reply #266 on: November 04, 2015, 02:34:45 PM »
I've always built and continue to run my two businesses on word of mouth advertising.
It's saved me a small fortune in advertising costs.

The cost of giving me the remainder of my subscription would have been of great benefit but naturally, there will be no GOOD word coming from my mouth. What would it have cost IceTV?

Needless to say I won't be paying $8.00 per month on top of the $140.00 I'm out and regardless, another $8.00/ month to save me from using the Beyonwiz inbuilt EPG?

$11.00 for Netfilx just became a lot more attractive.

Bye IceTV!

Offline jgriffin

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Re: IceTV Resurrected
« Reply #267 on: November 04, 2015, 02:41:00 PM »
I saw over on Whirlpool people talking about having received an email about the new payment gateway having now been established, and that we only had a week left of "free" guide updates.

I have not received any email from IceTV about this. I have received all the administrators emails to date, so my email is definitely in the system.

Has everyone else got their subscription email?

Offline artroom

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Re: IceTV Resurrected
« Reply #268 on: November 04, 2015, 02:44:41 PM »
Has everyone else got their subscription email?

I received one yesterday, which is what inspired me to come here and discuss this. I was quite surprised at the time to see no real talk of any form of acknowledgement to all those customers who have lost hundreds of dollars. Just 'Good to be back, here's how to pay more money"

Offline Atreides83

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Re: IceTV Resurrected
« Reply #269 on: November 04, 2015, 02:46:06 PM »
What would it have cost IceTV?

Presumably an insurmountable sum in lost cashflow if it was done all at once (i.e. not charging people until their subscriptions ran out). If it was done gradually as a discount however...


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