Author Topic: IceTV Resurrected  (Read 79108 times)

Offline TimC

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Re: IceTV Resurrected
« Reply #180 on: October 21, 2015, 10:25:56 AM »
I am wondering.  Is the company providing the new EPG service operating under the administration or is it operating independantly on it's own. i.e. free and clear of administration.
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Offline bodogbodog

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Re: IceTV Resurrected
« Reply #181 on: October 21, 2015, 11:20:21 AM »
I am wondering.  Is the company providing the new EPG service operating under the administration or is it operating independantly on it's own. i.e. free and clear of administration.

They wont be operating under Voluntary Administration as they are not in Administration - they are a new company trading just as any other Limited Liability company would be
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Offline antman

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Re: IceTV Resurrected
« Reply #182 on: October 21, 2015, 12:25:28 PM »

I got caught up when a client of mine went in to voluntary administration and I was owed just under $10,000. After over 12 months in administration, the unsecured creditors (all of us including employees, their unused leave, superannuation that has not been paid in, etc) ended up with just under 23 c in the $.


Unsecured creditors received 23c in the dollar? You guys were lucky (compared to most unsecured creditors in a similar position). Fortunately, the Government guarantees the payment of employee entitlements up to a fairly generous limit these days and then becomes a creditor for those amounts.


the largest unsecured creditor ended up with the company assets minus all the liabilities


Unless the company holds significant accrued tax losses that can be used by the purchaser or there are other significant benefits to buying  the whole company (usually to do with minimising tax on the transaction), and therefore acquiring its liabilities as well as its assets, it's pretty much unheard of to acquire a company's assets and liabilities. Most purchasers just want to take on the assets to see whether they can operate them profitably using a clean sheet and their own business methods. they do not want to take on the baggage of a company's history (and there can be some nasty surprises hidden in a company's past sometimes, particularly if a company has been trading for a long period of time) and why should they? After all, why does the business acquiring the assets owe anything to the creditors of the business that previously owned them? If you buy someone's house, should you then become liable for all of their debts? Whether they pay for the assets in cash or by relinquishing their own debt claim, that increases the pool of funds available for paying out other creditors in any case.

Offline Dave at IceTV

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Re: IceTV Resurrected
« Reply #183 on: October 21, 2015, 12:32:26 PM »
I'm a little confused on the timeline here.

Ice TV owned and run by Chris OBrien

A number of customers prepaid their service agreements in advance
A number of customers paid and didn't get their PVR's

So IceTV had a financial issue and went into administration.   

Administrators came in an essentially put the business up for sale because Chris's business could no longer function.

Chris came back in and bought the company back less all the obligations he previously had before it went broke.

Consequently, the owners of the old IceTV are the owners of the new IceTV less all the obligations they had to their customers (not to mention creditors and presumably staff as well).

All the customers are meant to run back and rebuy their services (not to mention hardware) from the same person who took their previous money?

Am I missing something here?

You are missing something: And “Chris” loses all his investments in and loans to the broke company, plus 10.5 years of work, and has to start again from zero.
cheers

Dave
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Offline antman

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Re: IceTV Resurrected
« Reply #184 on: October 21, 2015, 01:09:04 PM »

You are missing something: And “Chris” loses all his investments in and loans to the broke company, plus 10.5 years of work, and has to start again from zero.


I was going to post something similar. It's not like there is any credible accusation that he's ripped all of the money out of the old company and used it to buy the assets at no nett cost to himself to operate through a new company while leaving creditors high and dry, which is what some people posting on here seem to think has happened. You'd think businesses never went bust.

He's not really starting form zero though, is he, as he has the assets, including the IP, and his own knowledge built up over those 10.5 years plus that of people like you. However, I assume that he has had to put some money into the new company or at least provided a personal guarantee to lenders so that the company could buy the assets and have some cash to commence trading.

Edit: Also, "Chris" did not buy back the old company, "he" bought some of its assets - the ones that "he" believed could be operated profitably. "He" couldn't really buy back a company "he" already owns, could he? Anyway, this sort of thing happens every day (literally).

Our law makers decided that there is a public benefit to allowing businesses to cut their losses and minimise the damage by entering into administration as this gives creditors the best chance of getting something. Administration is also often the only viable option if directors are to meet their legal obligation not to allow a company to trade while insolvent. People often see administration as a cop-out or absolving one's responsibilities when it is actually the responsible option in most cases.

If someone, even if it is the previous owners, can salvage something from a failed business and make a viable business with the benefit of experience, economic activity is created and we, as a society and an economy, win. If anyone has done anything wrong in relation to the old company, ASIC can prosecute them and they can be banned from being a director. If the directors allowed the old company to trade while insolvent, then they can be personally liable for the old company's debts.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2015, 01:30:08 PM by antman »

Offline TimC

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Re: IceTV Resurrected
« Reply #185 on: October 21, 2015, 02:31:55 PM »
I can't help thinking that "Chris" must have paid a fairly hefty price to re-own the EPG subscription service.

This is my take on Administration
Administrators aren't altruistic. They administer because they make money doing it. How?

They take control of the company. They pay themselves a fairly hefty "salary". Salary is not quite the right word here but it serves. 

If the company can support them and continue to make a profit they eventually step back, take their salary and leave the original owners to continue less a lot of their spare cash.
The reality is that most healthy businesses can't survive this process let alone a strugglling one.

If the company can't support them and continue to profit, they usually sell off the assets for as much as they can get, and negotiate with the various creditors to accept a cent in the dollar amount, so they (the creditors) can realise their loss and write it off against their tax. While all this is going on the administrators are paying themselves their hefty "salary" out of what remains of the company's cashflow.

When all the negotiations are finalised, the company no longer exists. The secured creditors get a little back, the unsecured creditors (Us) get virtually nothing, and the original owners lose any money they had invested in the original company (unless they had somehow siphoned of the money before the administrators got involved).

This discription is probably too simplistic but there you go.

I find it interesting that the admistrator was willing to sell off the part of the business that was capable of profit so early in the process.
I am not saying the administrator or the original owners have done anything underhanded by the way.

Maybe the fact the UEC/Altech has shut up shop in Australia means that the Shop side of the business can be wound up pretty quickly.

However I'm happy.  I lost a bit of subscription, but my EPG service continues for a reasonable cost. I was one of the lucky ones to receive a Skippa. Its a little buggy, but I can workaround most of them.

My only concern is whether the EPG service will be able to continue with development of the Skippa firmware to eradicate the remaining bugs. 
I can't see any profit in it for them, so I'm guessing not, but I can hope.

Offline glenidol

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Re: IceTV Resurrected
« Reply #186 on: October 21, 2015, 03:01:40 PM »
Attention Dave -
It's alleged to have been resurrected in emails to us  - but all I have experienced is iPhone app not working, no full guide on the PVR, PVR filling up its HD with things I haven't set to record (like loads of version of Parliamentary question time and ABC news or yanky news!!! :-) ).  Programs I have programmed on the web page don't action on the PVR.

It's behaving so badly my husband said I should disconnect it.

My one year renewal subscription was processed days before ICE went into admin. More than a bit cross about that. Not willing to chance any further money till I see some proper sign its actually working again.



Offline rtraill

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Re: IceTV Resurrected
« Reply #187 on: October 21, 2015, 05:24:58 PM »
I must say that the EPG is working perfectly on my EyeTV, Beyonwiz T3 and my iPhone.  Remote recordings working properly.  Even though I paid and didn't get a Skippa and lost 3 years prepaid subscription I am very grateful that the IceTV service is able to continue, hopefully, forever.

I intend to subscribe when it becomes active and urge everyone else to do the same.  Waiting around forever will just guarantee that the new company folds due to loss of revenue.

It is a psychological flaw in humans that if we have lost something then that can prevent them from acting rationally in the future (e.g. I bought a new phone but then lost it I might be reluctant to buy a replacement thinking that the phone isn't worth twice the price - assuming funds aren't the issue of course). 

One needs to accept the loss and, if it was worth $8/m for you in the past then it should still be worth $8/m in the future.

Offline IanL-S

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Re: IceTV Resurrected
« Reply #188 on: October 21, 2015, 05:27:06 PM »
My one year renewal subscription was processed days before ICE went into admin. More than a bit cross about that. Not willing to chance any further money till I see some proper sign its actually working again.

If you used a credit card, contact the card issuer about a charge back. If you used PayPal see the thread about PayPal refunds.

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Offline sam

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Re: IceTV Resurrected
« Reply #189 on: October 21, 2015, 05:29:34 PM »
At this stage I suspect for most of us a new firmware release that provides stability is what we're really after

For those looking for a firmware update to fix their Skippa's issues see:
http://support.icetv.com.au/entries/97066117-How-to-update-the-software-from-a-USB-stick

Hi Dave,

As I have a faulty SKIPPA that will not fully Bootup or work. IceTV were sending a Replacement SKIPPA before IceTV was put into Voluntary Administration. But it was never delivered to me!

How can I update the Firmware via USB when my SKIPPA won’t finish boot up?
The circle is frozen, it never finishing loading - the circle disappears to a blank/black screen  - pressing Menu on the remote control does nothing.

So I’m unable to follow the instructions  in ’How to update the software from a USB stick’.
Scroll down to Settings and press OK etc…

I copied the “upgrade_skippa.ice” file onto a USB stick & inserted into a USB port at the rear of SKIPPA on the ‘off chance’ this might somehow force SKIPPA to finish boot up.

Kind Regards,
Ronni

Offline IanL-S

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Re: IceTV Resurrected
« Reply #190 on: October 21, 2015, 05:36:17 PM »
Sam
Some PVRs have a special procedure to do the recovery. Do a www search for procedure to recover Altech PVRs.

Ian

Offline 2353

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Re: IceTV Resurrected
« Reply #191 on: October 21, 2015, 08:39:25 PM »
I'm a little confused on the timeline here.

Ice TV owned and run by Chris OBrien

A number of customers prepaid their service agreements in advance
A number of customers paid and didn't get their PVR's

So IceTV had a financial issue and went into administration.   

Administrators came in an essentially put the business up for sale because Chris's business could no longer function.

Chris came back in and bought the company back less all the obligations he previously had before it went broke.

Consequently, the owners of the old IceTV are the owners of the new IceTV less all the obligations they had to their customers (not to mention creditors and presumably staff as well).

All the customers are meant to run back and rebuy their services (not to mention hardware) from the same person who took their previous money?

Am I missing something here?

You are missing something: And “Chris” loses all his investments in and loans to the broke company, plus 10.5 years of work, and has to start again from zero.
Well said.  The reality is (with the possible exception of those that purchased the intellectual property in the last week or so) that none of us have lost much in comparison to those who were subject to the failures of numerous financial planners, travel providers and so on.

Yes, there is a better use for the money we've all lost - we're all in a better position than those who have lost all their super, tens of thousands they had saved for the holiday of a lifetime or similar.  If you want to stay with IceTV or go away, it's your choice, but the constant repetition of conspiracy theories (or even worse - we wuz robbed) is pointless.

Offline sam

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Re: IceTV Resurrected
« Reply #192 on: October 21, 2015, 08:48:07 PM »
Sam
Some PVRs have a special procedure to do the recovery. Do a www search for procedure to recover Altech PVRs.

Ian


Thanks Ian. I couldn’t find much with online search, but I did try this:

Connected SKIPPI into Power to start SKIPPA, when the boot screen appeared (Round Blue circle) I quickly pressed the remote keys in the following order : red, green, yellow, blue, yellow .
This should Reboot SKIPPA  - It did not reboot on my first try, so I continued pressing the red, green, yellow, blue, yellow while still on the splash screen until the SKIPPA eventually rebooted.

It had reset back to ‘out of the box’ and I was able to do part of setup before a freeze, the Remote was unresponsive to any key press. Eventually after numerous Freezes and having to manually Boot SKIPPA (pull the plug wait a min. replug) I got my Network & IceTV Account setup.

I also was able to then Update the Software from the USB Stick. SKIPPA rebooted after update was successfully installed.
All was showing promise at this stage, and SKIPPA rebooted and live TV played. I thought I was winning… until SKIPPA froze again. I had to unplug it to shutdown.
I left it unplugged to cool down for awhile, then replugged to boot up, it goes through it process until “RUNNING VIDEO PLAYER” … Loading and that’s as far as it gets.
So I unplugged and will leave it for tonight.

I know it has connected to my IceTV online account as I received an email from IceTV Support - “IceTV has received a notification from your video recorder that it was unable to record one of your shows due to an error”. The email came through today, the shows mentioned were yesterday, when I had SKIPPA unplugged.

Perhaps another Software Update might fix my faulty SKIPPA? I certainly hope so, but I do feel this is a Hardware fault (as IceTV Support suggested originally) -not Firmware.

Thanks again for your help.
Sam

Offline TimC

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Re: IceTV Resurrected
« Reply #193 on: October 21, 2015, 08:56:25 PM »
I saw something somewhere that some plugpacks were off voltage an causing problems. 

It may be worth buying an equivalent off the shelf plugpack and trying it.

Have a look in some of the "freezing" bug reports for where it was discussed.

Offline Dave at IceTV

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Re: IceTV Resurrected
« Reply #194 on: October 22, 2015, 02:29:34 PM »
Hi Dave,

As I have a faulty SKIPPA that will not fully Bootup or work. IceTV were sending a Replacement SKIPPA before IceTV was put into Voluntary Administration. But it was never delivered to me!
You should contact PayPal (see the PayPal thread) or your credit card provider to get a refund as your skippa will never work without some help from UEC.

How can I update the Firmware via USB when my SKIPPA won’t finish boot up?
The circle is frozen, it never finishing loading - the circle disappears to a blank/black screen  - pressing Menu on the remote control does nothing.
If you have another device or laptop with the same type of power supply (12V 4A and the same plug) you try another power supply to see the skippa will then boot up.

If it gets to the IceTV logo screen (it comes after the loading... circle) you can try a sequence of button presses to reset the skippa, or reset and format the hard drive.

The following will reset and format the HDD.

1. Unplug the power cable from the back of the Skippa.
2. Wait 10 seconds.
3. Plug the power cable back in.
4. On the TV screen, when you see the loading screen vanish press the following remote control buttons in this order:
  - Red, Green, Yellow, Blue, Yellow
5. The Skippa will should restart and run through the initial setup process again.

The opposite resets without formatting the HDD: Blue, Yellow, Green, Red, Green.

There may be another combination that installs the firmware from USB, or maybe they use a computer app connected via Serial-to-USB.


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