Author Topic: Do I need a "Freeview" compliant beyonwiz?  (Read 9946 times)

Offline wappinghigh

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Do I need a "Freeview" compliant beyonwiz?
« on: April 25, 2009, 08:55:35 PM »
Hi.

Newbie here. I'm about to launch into the HD DVR world. I'm going to get 3 Beyonwiz's and network them. Run them all with iceTV.

I know there will shortly be released two types of beyonwiz PVR's. The current non "Freeview" and a new "Freeview" compliant one. The IceTV website says Ice will work with the new "Freeview" transmission. SO do I need to get a "Freeview" WIZ?? Or is it better to get an non freeview one that will allow add skipping etc....

I guess what I'm asking is that after the networks switch over to their new mpeg4 DTV signal, does it matter which beyonwiz I get if I'm using ICE as the EPG...

Get my drift...if it's not confusing enough!!!  ???
« Last Edit: April 25, 2009, 09:02:21 PM by wappinghigh »

Vortical

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Re: Do I need a "Freeview" compliant beyonwiz?
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2009, 02:46:13 AM »
Freeview PVR's have ad skipping features disabled so you can only use fast forward to get through ads and the fast forward is limited to whatever speed the freeview specs allow

Non-Freeview PVR's have no features disabled.

I would think the choice would be easy considering the above points.


Offline wappinghigh

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Re: Do I need a "Freeview" compliant beyonwiz?
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2009, 07:22:18 AM »
Thanks. But I'm still not convinced. Basically I don't trust the networks. What if they switch their broadcasts from mpeg2 DTV, to mpeg4 DTV?

Won't the non freeview beyonwiz's with their mpeg2 tuners be unable to receive the HD signal? (no matter what EPG is used).....still confused  ???

Offline tonymy01

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Re: Do I need a "Freeview" compliant beyonwiz?
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2009, 09:39:34 AM »
I think that Smarthouse article is confused, and not the first time either.   The tuners don't change at all for MPEG2 vs MPEG4 transport stream streams.   It is only the decoding that has to take one more thing into consideration and the Wiz is perfectly capable of decoding H.264/MPEG4 transport streams now (it even does this for its own LiDiC).
I wonder if Outhouse meant "MHEG5" rather than "MPEG4", which does require money to get it implemented.
Regards
Tony

Beyonwiz DP-S1 & Topfield 5K (using PerlTGD to upload ICE EPG/timers for the 5K, normal ICE interactive for the Wiz).

Offline wappinghigh

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Re: Do I need a "Freeview" compliant beyonwiz?
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2009, 01:06:52 PM »
Still confused....that being the case:

If the current beyonwiz is capable of decoding a mpeg4 DVT signal, why are beyonwiz offering the same PVR "freeview" and non "freeview"?? 

Goodness help me when I go into  JB next week and try to buy one!

Would someone from beyonwiz and iceTV throw me a bone here....... ::)
« Last Edit: April 26, 2009, 05:45:26 PM by wappinghigh »

Offline tonymy01

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Re: Do I need a "Freeview" compliant beyonwiz?
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2009, 02:45:43 PM »
Forget MPEG4 for at least 5-8years anyway.  Many people don't even have digital yet, the transition from analogue to digital has taken 9 years, all up will take over 10 years!   So expect simulcast MPEG2/MPEG4 in a number of years time as many people don't have equipment capable of MPEG4.
Beyonwiz are offering this because to stay in the business of selling PVRs, they have to provide something with a Freeview sticker on it as people (and retailers) are asking for something with a freeview sticker.    Freeview has an extra set of requirements beyond what digital today offers, and has an extra set of "rules".    Rules like you can't jump skip a period of time, e.g. to skip tv commercials.   But requirements include a potentially feature rich EPG where you don't have to surf all the channels to get it data filled (you don't anyway if you use ICE.... but if you use FTA guides at the moment you do), will look the same for all Freeview stickered boxes (so when someone with BoxX talks about pressing the red button, it will do the same thing and look the same between all brands).   Features like over the air firmware upgrading (this is supported now for many boxes, but trying to get all the broadcasters to carry your 8megabyte firmware image for Brand X is nearly impossible, unless you are LG with a lot of face to save because of a giant bug in your TV software etc).

Freeview hasn't revealed all that much information of substance anyway, so if you can dig thru the FUD you will see that it is a lot about marketing a product to keep the advertisers happy (no advert skipping), while trying to get more people across to digital on the promise of a fantastic set of extra channels (FUD because this is available now.... and in the case of Ten with ONE, they didn't really give us much extra, still only 2 channels just like before, and we lose all our fave drama/sci-fi/doco's in HD too... grr).   Freeview is really just the TV industry trying to homogenise the digital experience for everyone, and try to do something to stop the bleeding.
Regards
« Last Edit: April 26, 2009, 05:59:29 PM by tonymy01 »

Offline wappinghigh

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Re: Do I need a "Freeview" compliant beyonwiz?
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2009, 05:57:05 PM »
Thanks. I kinda knew the networks were up to something! Got Foxtel worried though....it's a much better offering and still free. Where is the equivalent networkable Foxtel PVR! Be stuffed if I'm going to add a couple of other Foxtel PVR zones AND pay them for the privilege....

Offline tonymy01

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Re: Do I need a "Freeview" compliant beyonwiz?
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2009, 01:18:48 AM »
Here, read this press release from Freeview themselves about the SMH FUD about MPEG4:
http://www.freeview.com.au/pdfs/Media_Statement_18_March_2009.pdf

Offline machunter46

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Re: Do I need a "Freeview" compliant beyonwiz?
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2009, 11:27:33 AM »
Do we really think the big retailers will be willing to carry 2 flavours of the same device??  Will the public be smart enough to learn why a non Freeview Compliant device is better than a Freeview comliant model??  If not, the non comliant devices may exist and may be superior but the danger is that they will also be unobtainable.

Offline tonymy01

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Re: Do I need a "Freeview" compliant beyonwiz?
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2009, 12:31:14 PM »
No point in asking this question.   People ask for Freeview, because that is what the advertising is telling them to ask for.    If people ask for Freeview, that is what the retailers will want to sell.   If that is what the retailers want to sell, that is what the manufacturers will have to build to stay in business.
Us techo types can see thru all the marketting gaff and understand what we want out of a box, so hopefully techo boxes like the current Beyonwiz will remain to keep the "niche" techo types happy.    Non-techo Mums&Dads can keep asking for what they see advertised.

Offline Marc

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Re: Do I need a "Freeview" compliant beyonwiz?
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2009, 12:32:35 PM »
Do we really think the big retailers will be willing to carry 2 flavours of the same device??
The retailers will carry products that sell.

If the non-Freeview boxes sell well, then they'll stock them. It's as simple as that.

Offline wappinghigh

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Re: Do I need a "Freeview" compliant beyonwiz?
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2009, 10:19:41 PM »
Well just went and bought a Beyonwiz, from Hardly Normal. It's now the 3rd of May and not a "freeview" sticker in sight..not on ANYTHING. Any TV. Any PVR.
And a big central store in Melbourne. The guy said the whole store had only ONE Mpeg4 compliant device in the whole store! So much for "Freeview's" great "Launch".
Customers galore walking out with mpeg2 TV's etc.... What a joke!

Bought the "normal" Wiz as recommended...thanks!  :) But at least HN had one working on display to play around with before purchase..

Actually I tried JB hofo first, but they refused to demonstrate the product!! Said it was against head office policy! "What the..." .That's fine I said as I "demonstrated" my exit...


Offline Stunkrat

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Re: Do I need a "Freeview" compliant beyonwiz?
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2009, 12:06:33 PM »
Well, the Beyonwiz is MPEG4 compliant, not that it matters because the TV networks can't broadcast it.

Offline prl

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Re: Do I need a "Freeview" compliant beyonwiz?
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2009, 12:18:52 PM »
Well, the Beyonwiz is MPEG4 compliant, not that it matters because the TV networks can't broadcast it.
The existing Beyonwizes can play MPEG4 media files. I think that it's untested whether they can decode any future Australian MPEG4 broadcasts. I think it's highly likely that they will be able to, or that they will be able to with a firmware upgrade, but that's not certain.

The broadcasters aren't permitted to broadcast MPEG4 at the moment. There's no certainty that that won't change in the future.
Peter
Beyonwiz T4 in-use
Beyonwiz T2, T3 & T4 for testing

Offline prl

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Re: Do I need a "Freeview" compliant beyonwiz?
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2009, 12:40:17 PM »
Thanks. But I'm still not convinced. Basically I don't trust the networks. What if they switch their broadcasts from mpeg2 DTV, to mpeg4 DTV?
...

If they did that now, then I'd guess that the ACMA would take a very, very big stick to them.

There's very little discussion of MPEG-4 on the ACMA web site, and most of that is in the context of datacasting. If there were moves afoot to move to using MPEG4 for broadcasting either in addition to MPEG2, or instead of MPEG2, then there would probably be much more mention of it in documents on the ACMA site.

These things take time. Digital broadcasting started on 1 Jan 2001. Analog TV will start being switched off in the first half of 2010, and the switchoff won't be complete until the second half of 2013. A transition to MPEG4 might be quicker, but don't expect it to happen overnight.


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