Author Topic: Weird happenings again  (Read 3872 times)

Offline csutak40

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Weird happenings again
« on: May 08, 2016, 05:41:51 AM »
This is not a problem, more a good thing, if anything, ;D

In the beginning when I got the Wiz, I was having all sorts of problems, which Dave helped me to sort out.

At the time I set one AutoTimer for Saturday's Studio 10, simply because I only wanted to record Saturday, but there was no way to differentiate between Saturday and the rest of the week on IceTV, but there was on the T4.  Someone told me that it was OK to use both IceTV and the AutoTimer

However, having set the timer, it didn't work.  When Dave started helping me to sort the mess out, he suggested deleting that.  Explained why it wasn't working, TBH, I don't remember what it was.  He deleted it for me.  Also, he suggested that there were too many programs being kept in the timer list as "done", so he changed that setting as well.

I just installed the latest update.  I did a backup and restore and everything seemed to work fine, but then I discovered that IceTV was no longer installed, so I had to re-install it.  I didn't have to re-add the log-in etc, that seems to have remained.

I have now made an amazing discovery.  Saturday's Studio 10 recorded!  Just checked, it is set to record next week as well!  ??? I am not complaining, just am intrigued to find out how this is possible?   :P  BTW, I am sure that this is not the first update I had installed since Dave sorted out my mess.

I have also noticed that I have "done" programs going back to the 1st of May.  I am not sure what the purpose of these are in the first place, also have no idea how to change how many days it keeps, and even if I did, how many days is a good number?
Cheers,
Judy
Windows 7 Media Center; Last Update Feb 20 2006; Beyonwiz T4, T2

Offline raymondjpg

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Re: Weird happenings again
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2016, 11:21:17 AM »
I have also noticed that I have "done" programs going back to the 1st of May.  I am not sure what the purpose of these are in the first place, also have no idea how to change how many days it keeps, and even if I did, how many days is a good number?

There is a good guide to setting autotimers on the Beyonwiz forum entitled "A quick guide to Beyonwiz T series AutoTimers". From the first post in the guide "Once that's done, it may be a good idea to set MENU>Setup>TV>Recording settings>Remove completed timers after to 7 days or more (the default is 7). That will help Require description to be unique to work properly."

I don't use IceTV on my T2, and I have remove completed timers set to 8 days. Generally speaking the "Require description to be unique" setting in the autotimer is (at least for me) more useful to weed out repeats of programs that have not yet been recorded, rather than those that have already been recorded. Thus, for me, the remove completed timers setting is not so critical.
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Offline prl

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Re: Weird happenings again
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2016, 11:29:15 AM »
...  Also, he [Dave at IceTV] suggested that there were too many programs being kept in the timer list as "done", so he changed that setting as well.
Is that an IceTV server limitation? I've never had any problem with the default 7 days before deletion setting, but of course if the limitation is on the number of timers,  that's only indirectly connected to the number of days they're retained. If the setting you're referring to is the one on the Beyonwiz recorder, I'm not sure how Dave could have changed that setting other than asking you to do it yourself.

[quotes from Judy slightly re-ordered to make them easier to answer]

I just installed the latest update.  I did a backup and restore and everything seemed to work fine, but then I discovered that IceTV was no longer installed, so I had to re-install it.  I didn't have to re-add the log-in etc, that seems to have remained. ... BTW, I am sure that this is not the first update I had installed since Dave sorted out my mess.
Ever since shortly after the original IceTV company that provides the IceTV service went into administration, the IceTV plugin was removed from the USB install package. Since then, every time you do an update from USB, you need to reinstall the IceTV plugin on the Beyonwiz T series. I don't know why IceTV hasn't been put back in the USB install package.

If you update online, the IceTV plugin is not affected. So it's a question of how you update, not just whether you've updated.

I have now made an amazing discovery.  Saturday's Studio 10 recorded!  Just checked, it is set to record next week as well!  ??? I am not complaining, just am intrigued to find out how this is possible?   :P 
There isn't enough information in your post for me to help on that. The only thing I can think of is that at some stage you may have had an AutoTimer and an IceTV recording trying to set the same timer. I'm not sure what effect that would have, but it wouldn't surprise me if the result was not good.

I have also noticed that I have "done" programs going back to the 1st of May.  I am not sure what the purpose of these are in the first place, also have no idea how to change how many days it keeps, and even if I did, how many days is a good number? If, on 8 May, you have "done" timers going back no further than 1 May, it looks like you're configured for 7 days. I've never had problems with having it on 7 days.
The setting is in MENU>Setup>TV>Recording settings>Remove completed timers after (days). As I mentioned above, it defaults to 7 days. It defaults to 7 days, and is adjustable in steps of 1 day from 1 day to 120 days.
Peter
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Beyonwiz T2, T3 & T4 for testing

Offline prl

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Re: Weird happenings again
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2016, 11:34:31 AM »
I have also noticed that I have "done" programs going back to the 1st of May.  I am not sure what the purpose of these are in the first place, also have no idea how to change how many days it keeps, and even if I did, how many days is a good number?

There is a good guide to setting autotimers on the Beyonwiz forum entitled "A quick guide to Beyonwiz T series AutoTimers". From the first post in the guide "Once that's done, it may be a good idea to set MENU>Setup>TV>Recording settings>Remove completed timers after to 7 days or more (the default is 7). That will help Require description to be unique to work properly."

While I think that's good advice for allowing the AutoTimer "Require description to be unique" setting to work as intended, the fact that Judy says that the timers on her recorder go back to 1 May suggests that her setting for "Remove completed timers after" is the default 7 days (her post is dated today, 8 May). It also appears that in Judy's case, the time restrictions on her Studio 10 AutoTimer would mean that the "Require description to be unique" setting wouldn't come into play.

Also, at least with the IceTV guide, Studio 10 is a show where "Require description to be unique" wouldn't work for its intended purpose of avoiding the repeats laughably called "encores" by the networks, because its IceTV description is always the same, no matter what its contents.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2016, 11:38:04 AM by prl »

Offline raymondjpg

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Re: Weird happenings again
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2016, 11:42:45 AM »
It also appears that in Judy's case, the time restrictions on her Studio 10 AutoTimer would mean that the "Require description to be unique" setting wouldn't come into play.

If time restrictions override the "Require description to be unique" setting, that is something that has not been clear to me and if it has not been articulated in your BW forum post on autotimers then I suggest it would be useful to do so. So far I have had no need to set time restrictions on autotimers, and routinely disable that requirement. Thus the "Require description to be unique" setting works well for me in eliminating future repeats of programs not already recorded.

Offline raymondjpg

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Re: Weird happenings again
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2016, 11:51:43 AM »
Also, at least with the IceTV guide, Studio 10 is a show where "Require description to be unique" wouldn't work for its intended purpose of avoiding the repeats laughably called "encores" by the networks, because its IceTV description is always the same, no matter what its contents.

Hence the value of having IceTV to hand, if they can pick up and flag any repeats of such offerings. Otherwise the selection of uniqueness for such programs, whether they be from OTA EPG or IceTV, is a lost cause, unless by time restriction.

Edit: IIRC there is a current thread on the BW forum on picking up the IceTV repeat flag on autotimers.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2016, 11:54:55 AM by raymondjpg »

Offline prl

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Re: Weird happenings again
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2016, 11:58:58 AM »
Both restrictions are applied if they are set. It's not really a matter of one overriding the other.

Judy's time restrictions mean that, for this case, the setting of "Require description to be unique" is irrelevant unless completed timers are retained for more than 7 days, in which case setting it could be counter-productive.

Because the description of Studio 10 is always the same, it probably wouldn't work the way you would probably want it to: "Require description to be unique" would record Friday's show and would stop Saturday's show being recorded (or vice versa, depending on when the AutoTimer started running). If completed timers were held for long enough, the recording of Friday's show may also even prevent the recording of the following week's shows.

This aspect of "Require description to be unique" is discussed in the FAQ:
Quote
Sometimes the EPG title and description for all episodes (or several episodes) of a series can be the same, even though the episodes are different (episodes of Horrible Histories showing currently on ABC3 is an example), and "Require description to be unique" won't work properly on those series.

Offline prl

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Re: Weird happenings again
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2016, 12:05:04 PM »
Also, at least with the IceTV guide, Studio 10 is a show where "Require description to be unique" wouldn't work for its intended purpose of avoiding the repeats laughably called "encores" by the networks, because its IceTV description is always the same, no matter what its contents.

Hence the value of having IceTV to hand, if they can pick up and flag any repeats of such offerings. Otherwise the selection of uniqueness for such programs, whether they be from OTA EPG or IceTV, is a lost cause, unless by time restriction.
The episodes on Studio 10 in question aren't repeats and aren't flagged as repeats by IceTV. The nature of the AutoTimer setting "Require description to be unique" on the IceGuide, though, would be to treat them as repeats, even though they aren't repeats, because their IceTV descriptions are always the same, even though the contents of the shows is not the same.

Offline csutak40

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Re: Weird happenings again
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2016, 03:00:09 AM »

Is that an IceTV server limitation? I've never had any problem with the default 7 days before deletion setting, but of course if the limitation is on the number of timers,  that's only indirectly connected to the number of days they're retained. If the setting you're referring to is the one on the Beyonwiz recorder, I'm not sure how Dave could have changed that setting other than asking you to do it yourself.
I honestly don't remember.  May have had something to do with the fact that Dave asked me to send him screen shots of all the timers among other things, and the amount of "done" went on for quite a few pages.
I still don't understand the reason these "done" listings are needed, but I supposed there is one  :D
[quotes from Judy slightly re-ordered to make them easier to answer]

Ever since shortly after the original IceTV company that provides the IceTV service went into administration, the IceTV plugin was removed from the USB install package. Since then, every time you do an update from USB, you need to reinstall the IceTV plugin on the Beyonwiz T series. I don't know why IceTV hasn't been put back in the USB install package.

If you update online, the IceTV plugin is not affected. So it's a question of how you update, not just whether you've updated.

This explains why IceTV went missing :-) 

I meant to ask, is there a reason (other than the  possible glitch in the internet connection) why one is better than the other?
There isn't enough information in your post for me to help on that. The only thing I can think of is that at some stage you may have had an AutoTimer and an IceTV recording trying to set the same timer. I'm not sure what effect that would have, but it wouldn't surprise me if the result was not good.

OK, try to explain better.  Studio 10 has a sort of compilation show on Saturdays (and Sundays as well AFAIK)  It is a repeat, but not really.  Ice TV doesn't mark it repeat, nor has a different name for it as the shows showing Monday to Friday.  So, the only choice is to either tape all the shows, or none.  I don't like this show enough to want to record it every day, but just taping Saturday, I can fast forward most of it and watch a few interesting bits that happened during the week.
TED on the Toppy allowed me to set it to record on Saturdays only. I discovered that the listing on the Wiz did differentiate, it lists it as "Studio 10:Saturday", so it is possible to set a timer through the Wiz auto timers, as opposed to IceTV, for just the Saturday show.
Having  set the ONE show with the Wiz Autotimer (everything else was set with IceTV) it just didn't work - no timer was set for this show.
Dave suggested  it should be deleted, so I did (You mention that he couldn't have deleted it, my memory being what it is, you could be right, I must have deleted it myself at his suggestion)  The point is, the autotimer setting was deleted.
I doubt I would have had another timer set, but then again, I had lots of phantom timers back then, so anything is possible.

What confuses me is that all of the sudden, after this update, it reappeared and not only that, without any further intervention from me, it is now working.  I didn't even know it had reappeared until I discovered a recording for it :-)  That is the bit that I am surprised at - can't understand how this is possible.  :P

The setting is in MENU>Setup>TV>Recording settings>Remove completed timers after (days). As I mentioned above, it defaults to 7 days. It defaults to 7 days, and is adjustable in steps of 1 day from 1 day to 120 days.

Thanks for that - I still have trouble finding various settings  :-[

Offline csutak40

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Re: Weird happenings again
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2016, 03:06:49 AM »


Hence the value of having IceTV to hand, if they can pick up and flag any repeats of such offerings. Otherwise the selection of uniqueness for such programs, whether they be from OTA EPG or IceTV, is a lost cause, unless by time restriction.


Except in my case, I need the opposite  ;D  Studio 10 is never marked repeat.  The weekend shows are "encore" but more a compilation.  They just compile bits from the previous week

I actually want to record that, as opposed to the entire week (made up of mostly advertorials) because, that way, I have less fast forwarding to do :-)

Offline raymondjpg

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Re: Weird happenings again
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2016, 08:52:21 AM »


Hence the value of having IceTV to hand, if they can pick up and flag any repeats of such offerings. Otherwise the selection of uniqueness for such programs, whether they be from OTA EPG or IceTV, is a lost cause, unless by time restriction.


Except in my case, I need the opposite  ;D  Studio 10 is never marked repeat.  The weekend shows are "encore" but more a compilation.  They just compile bits from the previous week

I actually want to record that, as opposed to the entire week (made up of mostly advertorials) because, that way, I have less fast forwarding to do :-)

My comment was more general, rather than specific to Studio 10. In the case of Studio 10 a time-limited autotimer should work. Check out "A quick guide to Beyonwiz T series AutoTimers" on the BW forum.

Offline Tiphanee

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Re: Weird happenings again
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2016, 09:03:25 AM »
Hi there -

I'm following along with your conversation and noted what you said about The Studio compilation show on the weekend.  I can go in and create a new episode for this show on the Saturday?  I can call it The Studio Compilation and set it as a first-run.  The show on Sunday is that a repeat of the Saturday show or is that another compilation show?

Cheers,

Tiphanee
Regards,

Tiphanee
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Offline prl

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Re: Weird happenings again
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2016, 12:17:59 PM »
    ...
    I meant to ask, is there a reason (other than the  possible glitch in the internet connection) why one is better than the other?
    ...
    • The interface for recording setup is much simpler (though perhaps less powerful in some ways) than AutoTimers. Your particular requirements for Studio 10 recordings (without Tiphanee's proposed changes) can be handled by AutoTimers, but not by IceTV.
    • IceTV has generally pretty good repeat markup, while the FTA EPG's repeat markup is as good as useless. In some cases "encore" shows (i.e. repeats shown shortly after the original broadcast) can be detected and avoided in AutoTimers using the "Require description to be unique" setting.
    • IceTV is easier to gain access to away from home, while AutoTimers requires some arrangement for access back into the home network.
    • IceTV's New Shows, Recommendations and What's on This Week(end) can be useful
    • The FTA EPG is updated more often. However, since AutoTimers generally scan the EPG less frequently that the FTA EPG updates happen, I'm not sure that this gives much actual improvement.
    • The FTA EPG is provided by the networks themselves, and sudden changes in the schedules are usually better tracked by the FTA EPG than by IceTV, which is forced to play catchup
    • The FTA EPG times are given to the nearest minute, while IceTV times are rounded to the nearest 5 minutes. Again, I'm not completely convinced that the accuracy of the EPG times matches the precision, but because I don't use AutoTmers, I don't know for sure.

    When the original IceTV company went into administration, I prepared for the possibility of the service not being available any more by switching my the-current recordings to AutoTimers. As soon as it became clear that IceTV's service would continue, I abandoned AutoTimers in favour of IceTV.

    The AutoTimer FAQ on the Beyonwiz forum is a by-product of that.[/list][/list]

    Offline csutak40

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    Re: Weird happenings again
    « Reply #13 on: May 09, 2016, 01:26:48 PM »
    Hi there -

    I'm following along with your conversation and noted what you said about The Studio compilation show on the weekend.  I can go in and create a new episode for this show on the Saturday?  I can call it The Studio Compilation and set it as a first-run.  The show on Sunday is that a repeat of the Saturday show or is that another compilation show?

    Cheers,

    Tiphanee
    That would be great, Tiphanee.  AFAIK, Sunday is not a repeat of Saturday. 

    Offline csutak40

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    Re: Weird happenings again
    « Reply #14 on: May 09, 2016, 01:33:28 PM »
      ...
      I meant to ask, is there a reason (other than the  possible glitch in the internet connection) why one is better than the other?
      ...
      • The interface for recording setup is much simpler (though perhaps less powerful in some ways) than AutoTimers. Your particular requirements for Studio 10 recordings (without Tiphanee's proposed changes) can be handled by AutoTimers, but not by IceTV.


      Oops, I didn't explain myself properly - again.  :-[

      I was actually asking if there is an advantage to installing the update with the USB stick, as opposed to letting the Wiz update itself on line  ;D

      None the less, thank you for the explanation, it explained it very well, very educational.[/list][/list]


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