Author Topic: Padding on Beyonwiz  (Read 3704 times)

Offline osiris

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Padding on Beyonwiz
« on: August 02, 2010, 06:24:51 PM »
Apologies in advance if this is the wrong place to post this question.... yes, i'm a n00bie, but willing to learn.

I've got a B/W DPP2 and when I used to manually set timers from the inbuilt EPG, I had padding enabled, both pre & post..... as we all know, the networks NEVER keep to their scheduled times.

This generally worked very well.

Now I have an IceTV subscription, and I am LOVING the service.....

BUT

IceTV doesn't seem to support the inbuilt padding ?

Couple of quick questions ?

*  If I make a recording setting using IceTV interactive, when it sends through to the PVR, it sets it for the exact scheduled start/stop times (with an effective "program length" time in the timer list).  But this seems to override the inbuilt padding I've got set in the PVR's main settings ?????  Some of my recordings are not finishing correctly, as they simply stop at the allocated time.
*  How do I force the IceTV-recordings to use the inbuilt padding on the PVR?
*  Is there advanced recording settings in IceTV Interactive (if so, I haven't found them) where I can adjust the Ice timer settings to include padding ?
I've noticed in other threads people talking about advanced settings, adding xxx-minutes to timers, but this seems to be only when using Ice on a Windows Media Centre ???  Or am I misreading this?
*  Currently, I go into the PVR timer listing every evening and manually increase each recording time by 15 minutes or so, to effectively add a degree of padding.  This is VERY tedious and annoying.
*  If I do this, the next time the PVR synchronises with IceTV, the settings revert back to the standard program length, and any manually-set increases are wiped out.  So I must go in EVERY night and manually adjust ONLY the recordings for that nite.... and hope that it doesn't re-synch with IceTV during the night, and re-set my manually-adjusted timers again before they start that evening.

Any help (or pointing to other posts with the answers, as I DID search, but could not find exact answers) are appreciated.

Cheers,
Osiris
(Brisbane)

Offline tonymy01

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Re: Padding on Beyonwiz
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2010, 08:15:50 PM »
I think you might be a little confused here.
The Wiz timers (pop-up show timer list) always show the start time and duration, and soft padding is not part of that display.   So irrespective of whether the timer was set by ICE or by you clicking on an EPG entry or you manually creating a timer from the GUI "record wednesday nights 7.30 for 60mins", the soft padding comes in at timer fire time.
Now, there are situations where the padding is overridden:
1.  back to back timers on the same channel.  
2.  overlapping timers when a 3rd timer begins (can be overlapping by the soft padding amount).

If you have padding priority set to pre or post, this padding will eat into other timers (core timer time reduced!) in the event of a conflict.
If you have padding priority set to none, at least you will get the core timer hours all fire 100%, and only padding will be truncated in the event of a conflict, done solely by the Beyonwiz.

Here, have a read of the padding FAQ over there:
http://www.beyonwiz.com.au/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=4973
Regards
Tony

« Last Edit: August 02, 2010, 08:18:24 PM by tonymy01 »
Regards
Tony

Beyonwiz DP-S1 & Topfield 5K (using PerlTGD to upload ICE EPG/timers for the 5K, normal ICE interactive for the Wiz).

Offline osiris

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Re: Padding on Beyonwiz
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2010, 07:35:12 AM »
Thanks mate..... will have a read.

My main problem is...... when using the manual EPG (before Ice subscription) I had padding set for 15 minutes after a program.... this always worked well.

Now...... with the padding set exactly the same..... but adding timers via Ice...... the padding doesn't seem to work.
A 1-hour timer records for exactly 1-hour... no padding any more.

I understand the concept of overlapping timers, and back-to-back, etc, etc.  That's all good.

Example:  Burn Notice, which starts about 1am (i think).  It's the only thing I record that starts that kind of time.  It runs for an hour.  Ice adds it automatically to start & record for 1 hour.  Post Padding set to 15 minutes ....... yet the recording ONLY runs for 1-hour, not 1:15mins, as expected.  Consequently, I miss the end of the program, as the network is NEVER on time :(
Frustrating as hell :(

I read somewhere else (can't find it now) that somebody else mentioned that the inbuilt padding options DONT work on a PVR, if the timer has been set by Ice...... not sure why.... just don't work.  I have no idea how the communication or protocols work, but perhaps Ice sends a dedicated STOP RECORDING setting, which can't be overridden by the pVR's internal timer management ?????

One thing I failed to mention:  I MAY have got it wrong, when I said I have to manually update (increase recording times) the timers AFTER Ice has synch'd to the PVR.... I'd never actually tested it properly before.
When I manually increase recording times by an extra xx-minutes..... when the PVR next synch's with Ice, Ice responds by allocating that extra recording time to the following program.
Sorry - that wasn't too clear..... i'll try to put it into english.
Example:  Program 1:  Runs 10:00pm to 11:00pm.  Recording set by Ice onto PVR.  Timer = Program A 10:00pm-11:00pm.  Duration 60mins.
I manually adjust the timer to be = Program A 10:00pm-11:15pm.  Duration 75mins.
This is all fine, and shows up in the timer list correctly.

WHEN Ice/PVR next synch...... an entry is added to my Ice Interactive showing that i've added a timer for Program B = 11:00-11:15pm Duration 15mins!!!!  This entry is duplicated in the PVR's timer listing.
It is NOT a separate timer entry.  It is an existing timer that I have manually adjusted recording time to allow for some "post-padding".

The other nite, after manually increasing recording times on something like 40 timers, to allow for some post-padding, the timer list all looked fine...... until after the next Ice-synch, when my recordings list doubled to about 80 programs.... as the adjusted times were re-scheduled as new-recordings.

Can anyone help further please ?  This is so f***ing frustrating.... I LOVE IceTV and the ease of use, but if it doesn't work in-conjunction-with the inbuilt padding features, then it's pointless :(
« Last Edit: August 03, 2010, 08:09:45 AM by osiris »

Offline tonymy01

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Re: Padding on Beyonwiz
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2010, 08:44:48 AM »
That would be why they are truncated, as I said before, with 2 recordings on the same channel back to back the beyonwiz will truncate the post padding off the first, and pre-padding off the 2nd, assuming you have padding priority set to none (however they can be played back to back by making your beyonwiz sort order oldest to newest and leave the "autoplay next" enabled).  If ICE sees you want 2 shows, it will send timers for 2 shows.   You need to set your soft padding settings in the Beyonwiz menus (and priority), this is a set and forget option, it applies to all timers, you should not be altering the timers themselves, it breaks the recognition protocol between ICE and the Wiz when the information in both places doesn't match.

Soft padding is not the same thing as going in and manually adding "padding" to a timer.  It is done purely by the Beyonwiz at recording time.   ICE sends timers with start time and duration based on the guide, you will see this in the Beyonwiz timer listing.   Then the Wiz does the soft padding at record time on the timers, with the rules in that thread I linked you to before.  ICE does not turn off any Beyonwiz feature, or send stop events.   If you have 2 timers back to back on the same channel (created by you building a timer of longer length manually and making ice think you wanted 2 shows), then the Beyonwiz does drop the padding as it doesn't want to use up 2 recording slots on the same channel/tuner at the overlap time.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2010, 09:01:34 AM by tonymy01 »

Offline osiris

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Re: Padding on Beyonwiz
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2010, 09:13:26 AM »
(This post Completely Re-Written)

Have taken the plunge and upgraded firmware to latest version...... done a complete re-initialise (factory reset).... rescanned all channels...... and allowed IceTV to re-send the timer settings.

Have re-set the padding to 2mins pre and 40mins post... with NONE as the priority.....

Will see how this goes for the next week or so, and see if my recordings are working with padding correctly, or not

Thanks Tony for your previous help.



One final question though....... Can anyone give a definitive answer on which of the services are identical ?

Eg:  When I performed a re-scan of all channels/services..... I ended up with 21 TV stations.  Obviously, some of these are duplicates, subject to different frequencies used in different areas of Aus.

I'm in Brisbane.  Can anyone tell me please which channel numbers/services/stations I can safely delete from my scanned channels, as they are duplicates ?

I've tried looking thru the EPG, to determine which ones are duplicates... but some of them, the EPG info is writen slightly differently, so it's not immediately clear which ones are DEFINITE duplicates.
Also..... cannot yet scan the EPG far enough in future to determine that they are in fact DUPLICATES of the same service, and not just SIMILAR services...... I've struck the issue before where 2 services can be identical for a number of days, and THEN have some different programming further down the track, so are therefore NOT duplicates, but merely similar.

I dont want to accidentally delete a service thinking it's a double-up of another, to find it was merely similar programming on some days, and entirely different programming on others.... but i also don't want to have to trawl thru 21 bloody channels when simply wanting to watch TV !!!

Is there a way I can show the EPG so that it is sorted by network ?  Rather than by channel number ?
EG:  Show all the network nine services together (Nine, Go, Nine HD), all the ABC services together (ABC News, ABC1 (i have 2 ABC1's), ABC2, ABC3) together..... SBS is worse.... SBS HD, SBS One, SBS2, 3, 4), etc, etc.
If I can get the EPG to group them by network, i can more easily check which services/numbers are duplicates, merely on a different channel number

(apologies.... i know i'm not using the "channel" "network" & "service" names correctly here........hopefully readers will get the intention of my question, even though the names i'm using are wrong)

« Last Edit: August 03, 2010, 11:14:40 AM by osiris »

Offline tonymy01

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Re: Padding on Beyonwiz
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2010, 11:28:00 AM »
The duplicates we are talking about are duplicates of the same LCN, e.g you have two LCN2 channels (two ABC1 channels)... this causes big issues with the way the Wiz processes EPG and timer data.   

The duplicates you are probably seeing are "shortcuts" so to speak that are kind of duplicates in the sense of that there is the same material on both channels (as one is simply a shortcut or pointer to the other, e.g. LCN2 and LCN21 are both ABC1), but these aren't necessary to delete (as one day, ABC might break these apart into unique offerings and you would need to rescan to get the deleted one back).   i.e. as long as all your LCNs are unique, you won't have problems.

To get the "chaff" out of your channel list, simply setup a favourites group with all your fave channels (from the setup menu).
21 channels is nothing, I remember a few years ago when SBS had about 5 pointers to the same channel, and Seven the same (7 Digital 1, 7 Digital 2, 7 Digital 3 blah blah), I would get up towards 40 channels scanned (we had D4 in Sydney which had a large number of real channels and a few pointer channels) ;-).
Once you setup a faves group, you will have much better enjoyment channel surfing and viewing your guide in the order *you* want, not the order the broadcasters have their LCNs in.
So the usual suspects I have in my list in this order:
2,22,23,24. 70,7,72.  90,9,99.  1,10,12.  30,3,31,32 (SBS I am a bit hazy on the LCNs at the moment), 44
(used to be 20 first, but ABCHD was ditched recently.. sniff.   Also 12 is an SD version of 1, but there has been talk that One/Ten would break this away into a unique channel one day, may as well keep an eye on it).
Then select a channel in the group when you are watching live tv with the fave button, and this will select your fave group properly to filter your epg list and surfing order.
Regards

Offline grampus

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Re: Padding on Beyonwiz
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2010, 11:50:15 AM »

Is there a way I can show the EPG so that it is sorted by network ?  Rather than by channel number ?
EG:  Show all the network nine services together (Nine, Go, Nine HD), all the ABC services together (ABC News, ABC1 (i have 2 ABC1's), ABC2, ABC3) together..... SBS is worse.... SBS HD, SBS One, SBS2, 3, 4), etc, etc.
If I can get the EPG to group them by network, i can more easily check which services/numbers are duplicates, merely on a different channel number
Go through your setup, and have a look for favorites.
Third one across.   then put the services you want into the favorites.  You'll have to manually manipulate them after that to get them in the order you want.
Exit,
Hit the Fav button, and select one of the channels in the list, then see the end result in your EPG.
After a bit of toing and froing it should all come clear.
BeyonWiz, T3

Offline Saltcastle

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Re: Padding on Beyonwiz
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2010, 05:45:34 PM »

Will see how this goes for the next week or so, and see if my recordings are working with padding correctly, or not

osiris, I just read this thread and was wondering whether everything was by now working without problems for you. The one thing I have learned is that the less one fiddles with IceTv and the timers, the better. I set all show via the interactive page, I have the padding set on the wiz - and that is it. It works flawlessly and very reliably.


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